RAGE & Frustration thread!!

tumppur

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Jun 29, 2010
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Why not?

Getting mentally ready for the the penalty shoot out against city... Then this happens literally the last second of stoppage time of the overtime.
[video=youtube;HFxDbq7psdI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFxDbq7psdI[/video]
 

Bigpapa42

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So hardly a significant complaint.... but getting promoted killed my interest in my save.

I generally don't manage in England. Just something about the Prem that I don't love dealing with in FM, and I generally don't do LLM. But I decided to tackle Blackburn. Given the expectations of lower-half of the table, I figured I would be able to build in the first season then push for promotion in season 2. Partly because I wasn't expecting success, I went with a tactic that wasn't truly suited to the squad, a 4-3-3 Gegenpress. But we romped the league and even did pretty well against Prem clubs in the cups. Made it to the Semi Final of the FA Cup and the final of the Carabao (lost to City).

Promoting is never really a bad thing. But the side wasn't Prem-ready. Didn't help that I had Prem clubs poaching some of my best experienced players (like Raya the GK) and despite getting good money for them, I was only getting to keep 10% for transfers. I was still able to bring in more promising youngsters.... but not Prem-caliber ones. The summer of 2019 transfer budget was 38m Euros. But the wage budget was only 500K per week - basically half of the lowest wage budgets of clubs already in the Prem (and getting relegated). Scouted hard to look for budget players. Most were marginal upgrades over what we already had or weren't interested in joining (screw you, Fabian Delph).

Started the new season. Lost 2 to bigger clubs and won two. And my interest in the save is gone.

I'm not even sure why. There is enough there that it should still be interesting. The fight for survival, the development of the young players I've brought in, even working towards building a new stadium down the road. Losing players I don't want to lose to bigger, richer clubs is frustrating, but that's hardly limited to the Prem or England. It happens a ton in other saves too (Monaco are jerks). Brexit has happened but no announcement yet of the new rules - that is likely to make things easier as I won't have to worry about Work Permits. Yet somehow, being in the Prem had just murdered my interest. I haven't played any matches since Thursday, despite having plenty of time over the weekend. Started messing around on a new save. Its not really the fact of getting promoted before I expected - think this interest-killing would have happened no matter when the club moved up.
 

Tohammer

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Aug 17, 2018
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Well i'm going to try not to lose my temper this year and it might not be that difficult because i'm too busy laughing at this game

I'm now playing the full version and despite apparently using the same ME, the one on the full game seems much worse.

I started my first save with Chelsea trying out the successful 4-2-3-1 I was using in the Demo and I think it still works, but I cant be certain because in the first week of December i've already had nearly 40 injuries. Now Chelsea have pretty good staff and they are in charge of training so training injuries are out of my hands. We also get a fair few in match injuries thanks to the opposition, but our worst injuries have come during the international break and this seems to occur because the AI will run your players into the ground rather than making a sub.

I went 6-8 weeks with no more than one fullback and a month without strikers(remember i'm in early December) I started with the transfer window closed for realism(oh the irony)

The ME is easily 10x worse than any previous ME ever, largely because its so one dimensional, with goals only coming from about 5 different scenarios.

Sweeper keepers don't sweep, even now that most keepers ARE suddenly sweeper keepers so setting them as such is complete waste of time.

Laugh it off, it'll never get better
 
OP
T

tumppur

Member
Jun 29, 2010
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The ME is easily 10x worse than any previous ME ever, largely because its so one dimensional, with goals only coming from about 5 different scenarios.
Agreed! There's always been "similar" scenarios in goal scoring but now it is often completely identical moves with very little variation. You're having deja vu game after game.
 

Bigpapa42

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So hardly a significant complaint.... but getting promoted killed my interest in my save.

<snippy>
I lied.

I ended up continuing with this save. Just closed out the second season. Somehow managed to finish second in the Premier League, which was wholly unexpected. Still using the same 4-3-3 Gegenpress without much tweaking. Momentum plays a big part of things, I find. We were able to put together a long unbeaten string through much of the autumn after losing 2 of our first 4 matches. Had a long string against sides that ended up being in the bottom, so scored some solid wins. Had another sequence like that in the winter. The matches against the big clubs were more spaced out. If they had been interspersed more, it would have been tougher to maintain the morale. Coming out of the Christmas crush, we were neck-and-neck for third with City and Chelsea. Tottenham were solidly in second and United running away to the title. I expected to slide and hoped to hang onto a European League spot, but Tottenham, City, and Chelsea are ended up dropping some points.

The most surprising part of the season was that we topped the goal-scoring charts. We didn't have a top-level striker or a 20 goal guy. Berenton scored about 15, Xadas hit close to 20 and Marin had more than 10. Pretty spread out. We did score the most from corners and indirect free kicks - nothing special in terms of routine, but have great takers (Mulgrew has 18 Corners and Gronli has 20 Free Kicks) makes a difference.

The only buy of note we made in the summer was Rob Holding for 8m, as he was transfer listed. He played very well thru the second half of the season. Him, Nyambe, and Berenton got called up to the England squad for the Euros.

Not much of a rant or a complaint. I still don't love managing in the Prem for weird reasons and I'm going to get annoyed when the bigger clubs start tearing my squad apart. But sometimes giving a save a chance pays off.
 

Conn

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Nov 27, 2009
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Wondering what they did with this patch?
I thought it was going to impact my tactic a lot, but it does not it only impact my finishing.

As by example i had 8 CCC last game and i scored on 0 of them.

My striker had open goal, he aims for goalkeeper standing by the opposite post.
A good volley opportunity? straight on the goalie
Header? Same!
through vs goalie, shoot him in the face, take the rebound and shoot him in the middle so he grips it..

i mean, realisticly a crapp striker would do that, but i have two good strikers and 1 decent and i saw this but not as extensive as the last champions league match.

its like when they finish, the ball automaticly goes straight on the goalie regardless of were he is standing.

any of you seen this?
 

Bigpapa42

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Can't say I saw serious problems with the matches I played yesterday after updating. We scored pretty well.

Another semi-rant about the Blackburn save. so the starting GK is David Raya, who is almost a perfect Sweeper Keerp, and using a Gegenpress tactic fit that. But Chelsea made an offer in the January 2019 window and since his agent promise the player would kick up a fuss, I negotiated up to 20m and took it. But I was only getting 10% of transfers at that point (despite having made 20m on transfers already that window) and lacked time. I negotiated a deal for Predrag Rajokovic but he wasn't going to get a WP, so I made a panic offer for Ohayon (18 year old Israeli) from the same club. Not Championship quality but he did well. We promoted first season but I decided against spending on a keeper upgrade. Bought a Croatian newgen GK who was similar in quality to Ohayon but higher potential, and then signed Marshall on a free from Hull to mentor.

Second season went well. But I noticed a few players with "minor concerns" about "depth at GK". Weird. If the concern was quality at GK, I would get it - none of the three are really Prem quality, despite Ohayon and the Croatian both playing well. In the summer of 2020, just as the players come back from the break, I notice everyone's morale crater. Strange. Then I get a bunch of players with "SPT" tags. It says they support a fellow player (Mulgrew, my captain) against me. What the ************?

Mulgrew never came to me. He couldn't have come during the break, but I got no notification. No "speak to him" option. I went back and looked. Nothing. But he calls a team meeting and 20 players are behind him in his complaint about "squad depth". I had a bid in for a RB so I promised to buy palyesr to address the depth concern. Happy ending!

Yet somehow the promise was taken as "buy a goalkeeper", even though that was never specified as the depth concern and we have 4 first team keepers - the three mentioned and a Romanian prospect. I was going to buy but near the end of the window, I got a reminder and decided to throw some bids around. Stoke just got promoted and still had Jack Butland, so I assumed they would be unwilling to sell. My last scout report on him said as much. I offer 15m flat and expect a rejection. They counter with 18m. I accept. I'm 80% hoping he rejects the offer or I can't get it done before the window closes. But to appease my captain, I finalize the deal.

So now I have 5 GKs. Butland is an upgrade on the two youngsters, and I will still give them matches so they develop. I had the money (Man City gave me 60m for Nyambe). I'm not really annoyed at ending up with a good English keeper. I am, however, annoyed at the presentation of the concern. It felt buggy as ************. I posted about it on the SI site but it got ignored in the hubbub about the patch.
 

Conn

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HAHA..

I know what you mean, my Selangor squad is unhappy about depth in midfield althoug i have 2 good homegrown CM's and 1 foreign good (for rotation) and i ahve 4 youth prospects that are very promising.
Wingers about same except i have 1 star IF and 1 good IF starting and then another 2 Star IF/strikers that can cover both sides.

i mean do they want 40 midtfielders in squad to not be concerned?

last season i had same issue with defence and then when i signed a very good foreign player the same guy that complained got concerned over getting replaced...

i think this is something they need to fix.
 

Bigpapa42

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Not so much a complaint / rant, because its a self-created problem. But I've posted about the Blackburn save in here and there isn't a specific "save update" thread, so here we go.

I'm in the closing months of season 3 with Blackburn. Fighting with Arsenal for the title. Out of the FA Cup, but won the Community Shield (got in because United did the league and FA Cup double last year) and the Carabao Cup for the second year in a row. Made the knockouts of the Champions League (easiest group imaginable considering we were in Pot 4) and beat Benfica in the first knockout round. Chelsea are up next.

The save is going swimmingly and its fun, but I'm generally pretty meh on managing in the Prem and rarely do so. So I don't expect to go any further once this season is done. My squad is full of wonderkids - about half of them are first-day free agent newgens and the others are typical "must buy youngsters" like Xadas, Marin, Markovic, and Tonali. They have all developed. Bigger clubs are already sniffing around it will become impossible to hang onto them and once it starts, it just becomes an absolute buffet. The challenge is replacing those wonderkids, and I already more young prospects in the pipeline, but it all just doesn't appeal that much. Because you have raised board and supporter expectations, replacing a 20 year old wonderkid with an 18 year old will-be-wonderkid is a bit of a step back on the pitch, and you can't necessarily maintain where you are.... I just don't wanna deal with the whole process.

But.... I have one player coming in that almost makes me want to keep going. I've had some bargains in this save - notably I got Rob Holding from Arsenal for 8.75m and Svetozar Markovic had a 2m release clause in his contract. So for barely 10m, I have two brilliant center backs who are one of the best partnerships I've had on FM as far back as I can recall. The pair of them are currently work 66m combined. Yet those two could pale in comparison...

After the first youth intake in Brazil, I spotted a gem at Gremio. The skin I use shows a club's Top Prospect and I think that was how I spotted him. Gilmerson Nogueira is an AMC that can play at MC or either wing. Decently physical and technical, but his Teamwork, Vision, and Work Rate all being 16 jumped out at me. Very advanced development for a 16 year old - one of the "freak" newgens in terms of that. Doesn't necessarily mean his potential is top level so i scouted. Scout said 5 stars. Cool. Can't buy him because of work permit and such.

Brexit was announced during season 2 so I started to think about players like him i could bring in. Scout said he wouldn't be interested. Then in the summer of 2020, he signed a new contract that had an 8.75m (weird that it was exactly what I paid for Holding but whatever) release clause. I activated but he wouldn't join yet because had just signed the new contract. So I tried again at the end of the summer. He accepted. But he's still only 17 so he can't join until June of 2021.

I like to data track the progression of my own players, so I did that with him when he signed. CA was 140. PA is 192. Personality is Professional. Not real weaknesses (Bravery is 8 and I would prefer higher than 12 Aggression due to playing style, but....) and while he's obviously an attacking player, he's also quite well rounded. Now in March 2021, his CA has gone up 152. Teamwork is 19 and both Vision and Workrate at 17. His stat line as a 16/17 year old was 40 matches for Gremio, 9 goals, 8 assists and 7.14 AVR. This season, its only 6 matches so far but 4 goals and 7.53 average. Even if he doesn't get any better through the next few months, he will come in as one of my best players with room to get significantly better. But the Brasilao runs through the summer so he will keep getting matches and he's likely to improve further. He joins in June.

He's not QUITE enough to make me keep going with the save. Ironically, the save I want to do next will be a new one starting in Brazil, though not with Gremio.
 

Tohammer

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Aug 17, 2018
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Since the minor update every time I go to the tactics screen it looks like this...

Oh and the game was somehow set to allow ********* Man to play the friendlies, never happened before and something I've NEVER used.

Two steps forward three back and all that
 

Tohammer

Banned
Aug 17, 2018
142
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HaHa, this game never fails to make me think that its a big dirty cheat(I know SI say otherwise, but they would wouldn't they)

Half time in our first game of the season away to Spurs and that is what I get...

Game two at Home to Watford and another own goal and a defensive error and we start with 1 point instead of 4.

The problem is, is that "the rub of the green" or "blind luck" is always in favour of the AI at about 80/20 and I genuinely believe it is set as such because the AI ability to compete is just not there.
 

cocogumbo

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Since the minor update every time I go to the tactics screen it looks like this...

Oh and the game was somehow set to allow ********* Man to play the friendlies, never happened before and something I've NEVER used.

Two steps forward three back and all that
Just click the 'Position/Role/Duty' header a few times & it'll go back to normal.
 

vanTiggelen

Member
Dec 7, 2014
93
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HaHa, this game never fails to make me think that its a big dirty cheat(I know SI say otherwise, but they would wouldn't they)

Half time in our first game of the season away to Spurs and that is what I get...

Game two at Home to Watford and another own goal and a defensive error and we start with 1 point instead of 4.

The problem is, is that "the rub of the green" or "blind luck" is always in favour of the AI at about 80/20 and I genuinely believe it is set as such because the AI ability to compete is just not there.
#

Yeah, Nothing at all to do with you downloading and tweaking knap's defenderless wonders, whilst the AI not only can somewhat balance Risk/reward in simple ways, but (arguably far too oftenly) keeps like half their team behind the ball for many minutes of a match, focused purely on making it hard to find superior space, unless it goes behind anyway. If you Keep on downloading tactics that have moar shots and Possession (influenced by gargabe programs such as MOTD), the only mathes you will ever lose will be Matches in which the Opposition has less attempts. It will happen. Some AI tactics have never, I mean never been geared towrads having moar shots and Possession, like this dude. He understands the General principle fairly well. Tactical decisions are a mixture of risk and reward for as long as you cannot field 30 outfield Players who cover every Inch of the pitch at any time, which even knap can't. Likewise, most of your Opposition oft Plays this defensively, if they score AT ALL, it will be from such Errors, if you're unlucky Bugs, screamers, or what have you. Unless they Code an engine where it is IMPOSSIBLE to go a Season without conceding shots, you will concede a Goal at some Point. Each shot is however slight a Chance of being a Goal.

Imagine Pep last season. His team conceded barely 6 shots average on Goal, by far the lest in the Prem. Yet he almost conceded 30 Goals come the end of the season. Now he goes to Whoscored.com (do it if you will) and goes EXCLUSIVELY through all the Matches where he conceded. Despite him actually still fielding defenders, it's few shots in all of the Matches -- that is the one where he at all conceded. One highlight being conceding 3 Goals off 4 shots total against a fairly struggling United. Welcome to the Wonderful world of confirmation bias.

The sad Thing is that perceptions like yours may be the reason why we will never see a more intelligent/competitive AI. At the Moment for instance, AI puts up ist extremely spoil Sport tactics in generic ways. Like it's Always done. Every AI tends to prefer a certain Kind of Formation. Some of those happen to defend the flanks better. Some of them happen to defend the central Areas better. Now imagine AI that would actually specifically plug the Zone it's attacked through…

Thus welcome to my personal far biggest FM Frustration EVERY SINGLE RELEASE: Every time I see a screenshot of shots and Possession, it makes me want to slit my throat. :D
 
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Tohammer

Banned
Aug 17, 2018
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I just lost away to Chelsea who played a 343(3 strikers) from the start and i'm using a 442

We were the better team but two of Chelsea's goals were set up by my defenders with perfect sliding tackles straight to their striker who somehow knew it was coming(both times) the other goal was a 35 yard free kick straight at my Gk but he must have been a ghost because it went straight through his body. We lost 3-2

This was a reply to you van ticklybits
 
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vanTiggelen

Member
Dec 7, 2014
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Individual Matches are irrelevant (though rage worthy). You can (and I did) lose a match to 3 dfks conceded, despite each of them should be realistically a comparably low Quality Chance unless centrally near in front of the Goal -- even with a "specialist".

3 strikers tend to be sometimes tricky........ I've hated them ever since FM2015ish. Even if the final "assist" may have been an error, if previously you wouldn't specifically cover for them, they are easy outlets to break into your half every time you drop the ball. Which was because oft they wouldn't at all track back, but Keep roughly at the half way line. On the official Forums, somebody had even coinned a nickname for it: The Three Fishermen. https://community.sigames.com/topic/430181-me-loophole/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-11260198 Simple clearnace, and up and running towards your Goal the opposition is/was. In General, I'd prefer positioning that you barely see on a real Football pitch to go (which would also influence lots of downloaded "super tactics" though). Maybe that would also help to fix and concentrate on some Long-term ME issues.
 

Tohammer

Banned
Aug 17, 2018
142
0
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Individual Matches are irrelevant (though rage worthy). You can (and I did) lose a match to 3 dfks conceded, despite each of them should be realistically a comparably low Quality Chance unless centrally near in front of the Goal -- even with a "specialist".

3 strikers tend to be sometimes tricky........ I've hated them ever since FM2015ish. Even if the final "assist" may have been an error, if previously you wouldn't specifically cover for them, they are easy outlets to break into your half every time you drop the ball. Which was because oft they wouldn't at all track back, but Keep roughly at the half way line. On the official Forums, somebody had even coinned a nickname for it: The Three Fishermen. https://community.sigames.com/topic/430181-me-loophole/?page=2&tab=comments#comment-11260198 Simple clearnace, and up and running towards your Goal the opposition is/was. In General, I'd prefer positioning that you barely see on a real Football pitch to go (which would also influence lots of downloaded "super tactics" though). Maybe that would also help to fix and concentrate on some Long-term ME issues.
No point conversing with you because even if I showed you a game where I lost 14-0 and the AI hadn't had a single shot on target you would still tell me how realistic it was. The games a farce and if you removed your rose tinted specs you would see that for yourself.
 

vanTiggelen

Member
Dec 7, 2014
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No point conversing with you because even if I showed you a game where I lost 14-0 and the AI hadn't had a single shot on target you would still tell me how realistic it was. The games a farce and if you removed your rose tinted specs you would see that for yourself.
It may be or not be a Farce. However like any game good and bad it's a game you either understandn or don't. I think you've shown for a very Long time that you don't. At least in formative years, you've admitted to such. I think there could be Feedback that would help you -- but it's not going to be shots and possessioin based. It can't be. Dominating shots to Kingdom come has very very Little do with completely dominating an Opposition even in the bug free, issue free, and error free Thing that is real Football. Go ask Germany at the World Cup (who at times barely played with a defense likewise). Or Real Madrid last term. Or Burnley's Opposition andn their Manager, who quite shockingly wasn#t even fussed About how many shots his side conceded on a spread sheet.

I don't carry rose tinted glasses myself personally. I'm actually coming increasingly bored and tired that in particular tactically (also on the AI's terms), the game seems really shy to progress much further than comparably basic things. For which there likely is a reason. All of this "cheating AI" perception wouldN't be near as absurd if Players despite the odd individual Point drop wouldn't still evidently ridiculously surpass what the AI would do if given the same Squad/Players consistently.
 
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Tohammer

Banned
Aug 17, 2018
142
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It may be or not be a Farce. However like any game good and bad it's a game you either understandn or don't. I think you've shown for a very Long time that you don't. At least in formative years, you've admitted to such. I think there could be Feedback that would help you -- but it's not going to be shots and possessioin based. It can't be. Dominating shots to Kingdom come has very very Little do with completely dominating an Opposition even in the bug free, issue free, and error free Thing that is real Football. Go ask Germany at the World Cup (who at times barely played with a defense likewise). Or Real Madrid last term. Or Burnley's Opposition andn their Manager, who quite shockingly wasn#t even fussed About how many shots his side conceded on a spread sheet.

I don't carry rose tinted glasses myself personally. I'm actually coming increasingly bored and tired that in particular tactically (also on the AI's terms), the game seems really shy to progress much further than comparably basic things. For which there likely is a reason. All of this "cheating AI" perception wouldN't be near as absurd if Players despite the odd individual Point drop wouldn't still evidently ridiculously surpass what the AI would do if given the same Squad/Players consistently.
You couldn't be more wrong though, I more than most understand that the amount of shots and possession mean very little in real life. I'm going by quality of the chances created and when I see my own players missing simple tap ins and the AI scoring so many cheap goals it then becomes the farce I suggested.

Its happening in AI v AI games too. Top teams are winning games they just don't deserve. For instance, Everton 0 - 4 Spurs, Tottenham led shots and possession by a mile but 90% of the shots were from long range, whilst Everton created half a dozen or more "great" chances. The whole game is wrong and this years ME and the matches it creates are a complete joke.

Oh and I've only been posting for a couple of months.