Catholic cardinal criticises gay marriage plans.

Joel`

Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Messages
8,166
Reaction score
2
Points
0
The government's plans for gay marriage have been criticised by the most senior Roman Catholic cleric in Britain.

Cardinal Keith O'Brien, the leader of the Catholic Church in Scotland, said the plans were a "grotesque subversion of a universally accepted human right".

He said the idea of redefining marriage, which David Cameron has said he supports, would "shame the United Kingdom in the eyes of the world".
He said it was wrong to deliberately deprive a child of a mother or father.

'Universally understood'Writing in the Sunday Telegraph, Cardinal O'Brien said: "Since all the legal rights of marriage are already available to homosexual couples, it is clear that this proposal is not about rights, but rather is an attempt to redefine marriage for the whole of society at the behest of a small minority of activists.

"Same-*** marriage would eliminate entirely in law the basic idea of a mother and a father for every child. It would create a society which deliberately chooses to deprive a child of either a mother or a father."

He added: "Imagine for a moment that the government had decided to legalise slavery but assured us that 'no one will be forced to keep a slave'."Would such worthless assurances calm our fury? Would they justify dismantling a fundamental human right?"
Cardinal O'Brien has become the latest of several senior clergy to denounce what he calls the "madness" of the government's backing for marriage to include homosexual couples.

He accused ministers of attempting to "redefine reality" and "dismantle the universally understood meaning of marriage".
In January the Anglican Archbishop of York, John Sentamu, also insisted governments did not have the moral authority to redefine marriage.
'Wish to commit'Scottish Secretary Michael Moore said the government's consultation on gay marriage was not aimed at forcing religious groups to endorse same-*** marriages.

He told BBC One's Andrew Marr Show: "We're not seeking to change religious marriage and we're not seeking to impose it on religious groups.
"What we are saying is that where a couple love each other and they wish to commit to each other for their life then they should be able to have a civil marriage irrespective of their sexual orientation."

Labour deputy leader Harriet Harman, a former equalities minister, said she thought it was right to have same-*** marriages.
She added: "I don't want anybody to feel that this is a licence for whipping up prejudice.

"What you're talking about is individual people and their personal relationships, their love for each other and their wanting to be in a partnership or getting married. I think we should support that."

Margot James, the first openly lesbian Conservative MP, accused the cardinal of "scaremongering".

She said: "I think it is a completely unacceptable way for a prelate to talk.

"I think that the government is not trying to force Catholic churches to perform gay marriages at all. It is a purely civil matter."

Ben Summerskill, chief executive of gay rights organisation Stonewall, said: "When you read the insulting tone to which Cardinal O'Brien descends on marriage you sense an argument already lost.

"If Roman Catholics don't approve of same-*** marriage, they should make sure they don't get married to someone of the same ***."

Consultation launchBut back-bench Conservative MP Peter Bone said he did not know where the government's mandate to pursue the issue came from."It wasn't in our manifesto. It wasn't in Labour's manifesto. It wasn't in the Liberal manifesto.

"Nobody in my constituency before this row has ever come up to me and said this is an important issue that needs to be dealt with.

"It came completely out of the blue and it should certainly not be put before the next general election."

Mr Bone said he believed marriage could not be anything other than the union of a man and a woman.

"It's rather like saying a pear is an apple - it just can't be. It's just really the definition," he said.

"I'm in favour of civil partnerships and equality. But, you can not in my view redefine marriage on a whim."

Mr Cameron publicly supported gay marriage at last year's Conservative Party conference, and the Home Office said last week the government believed a loving and committed couple should "have the option of a civil marriage irrespective of their sexual orientation".

Equalities Minister Lynne Featherstone will launch a consultation later this month on how to make civil marriage available to same-*** couples.
She has said she wants to challenge the view that the government does not have the right to change marriage traditions.

"It is the government's fundamental job to reflect society and to shape the future, not stay silent where it has the power to act and change things for the better," she said.

The Scottish government has held a consultation process north of the border and received more than 50,000 responses.

Many church leaders believe gay marriage would represent a further significant step in marginalising traditional religious values in society.

Civil partnerships were introduced in 2005 to give same-*** couples the same legal rights as married couples, but the law does not allow such unions to be referred to as marriages.

A new law allowing civil partnership ceremonies to be conducted in places of worship in England and Wales came into effect last year.
The Church of England has said it will not allow its churches to be used for civil partnership ceremonies unless the full general synod gives its consent.

BBC News - Catholic cardinal criticises gay marriages plan

Amazing how he claims it will hurt children, yet he oversees an organisation that is responsible for the abuse of tens of thousands of children, without even an apology or recognition, let alone doing something about it.

Yet another example of the negativity of religion that clouds our society for everyone, not even just those who choose to believe their ridiculous dogma.
 
I can't believe he used SLAVERY to compare to gay marrage. This is why politics and religion should never mix, never mind be taken as advice.
 
Moron...this is why so many younger people don't even bother with religion.
 
What a stupid man as a Christian I beleive you should respect homosexual people whether you like it or not.
 
What is the difference between marriage and a civil partnership anyway? :S
 
well Christians always say Marriage is a term that was created by the bible, with the description of being a union being between man and woman.

Same *** unions being considered marriages is kind of like fitting a square peg into a triangle hole.

But I don't see any issue with it. It's just a word. On the other hand, if it's just a word, why do gay couples desire it so much?
 
It's fine for gays/lesbians to get married in some churches or other places of ceremony - but why in a Catholic church etc where the religions teachings state that same *** relationships are frowned upon, and anyway, if you were gay why would you WANT to get married in a church where your lifestyle is not accepted?
 
The Catholic church should be disbanded because the idea of the existence of a God is absolutely stupid. Religion has over and over been disproved.
 
The Catholic church should be disbanded because the idea of the existence of a God is absolutely stupid. Religion has over and over been disproved.
I see another Religion debate coming on....
I may be an atheist/agnostic but even so I think that is quite a naive and ignorant opinion
 
I see another Religion debate coming on....
I may be an atheist/agnostic but even so I think that is quite a naive and ignorant opinion

Agreed with you Jak.
I may be 100% atheist, but the way Fish said that was asking for trouble.
 
This cardinal (Keith O'Brien) is just disrespectful and unthoughtful. Maybe it is frowned upon in the bible (gay couples/marriage), but surely he should give gays a little bit of respect! He doesn't have to like it, or agree with it, but speaking out in public about gay marriages being like slavery is just disgusting.

Isn't it in the bible that everyone should love others and respect them? I don't want to start stereotyping, but it seems that many of the Catholic leaders (priests, etc.) are bad people - haven't quite a few of them been accused of rape? It's giving Catholics a bad name, when most of them are fine!

​- PZW
 
The Catholic church should be disbanded because the idea of the existence of a God is absolutely stupid. Religion has over and over been disproved.
Yes. I am an atheist, but I completely disagree with this statement.

Some people NEED to believe in something. Sure, there is no "proof" that a God exists, but that doesn't make it less real to some people?

Point is, NO ONE should tell people who or what to believe in. That's up to them.
 
See, I come down halfway between the two arguments.

On one hand, I am completely loathe to stop people from believing in what they want to spiritually. If you want to believe in a higher power, then that's fine and dandy by me. I disagree, but life's too short to argue about something we can't possibly prove or disprove. On the other hand, if religion starts impacting on other people who want nothing to do with it, then I refuse to tolerate that. From the minor inconveniences of Jehovah's Witnesses coming to your door trying to convert you, to the Pope actively encouraging the spread of AIDS in developing nations by refusing to budge from his hardline stance on condoms, religion interfering in common life is unacceptable to me. Other religions can take a leaf out of the book of the Amish: they believe in what they want, and they keep themselves to themselves spiritually.

tl;dr I'm tolerant of all religions so long as they don't try and **** around with other people.
 
Given the manner in which the Catholic Church handled and hid the widespread sexual abuses by their priests, they are not on the strongest grounds to be dictating what is right and wrong
 
And they wonder why they are criticized so much, because we have the almighty cardinal in mass telling us that Jesus loves us all, and we're all equal and we should show tolerance and respect ... yet we have him saying this? I'm pretty sure it won't threaten straight marriage, because I highly doubt all the straight guys will go marry other guys! Hate Christians who can't see anything beyond their belief system, and shoot down anything thats not in their 2000 year old book. As a Catholic ... I'm applauded.
 
If someone knows the answer, can't seem to find it anywhere. So if god created everything, does that means god created devil too ?
 
If someone knows the answer, can't seem to find it anywhere. So if god created everything, does that means god created devil too ?
I thought the devel was an angel turned evil?
 
It's 2012, ffs, not even an argument anymore. Each to it's own.
 
Top