Does This Seem Harsh To Anyone Else?

[bobbymoore100]

Such a time consuming game needs to be able to keep the player interested and clicking continue instead of the "Quit" button.

FM15 just has me thinking "what am I doing with my life?". I am now in my 3rd season as Burnley boss. In season 1 with what can only be described as a terrible squad I managed to finish in 4th place and could actually have won the title.

I improved the squad for season 2 yet somehow only managed to finish 5th despite the fact that performances were good enough that we could have had the league wrapped up in early April. About this time i'm starting to get bored, bored that on the one hand the game is so easy and bored that on the other hand i'm drawing/losing a lot of games I should clearly win, but not getting anything at all from games that could have gone either way.

So, I went into season 3 thinking sh*t or bust, something needs to happen to make me want to keep playing. What follows are my results so far in the form of match statistics via screenshots. Game 1

Game 1

Game 2

Game 3

Game 4

Game 5

Game 6

Game 7

Game 8

Game 9

Game 10

Game 11

Game 12

Game 13

Game 14

Game 15

Game 16

Game 17

Game 18

Game 19

 

[RichTUK]

I dont really get the issue, you had two good seasons, you havnt said whats changed really between season 2 and 3.

 

[Son of Jools and Jops]

I think the Blackburn and West Brom games would have made me throw the monitor out of the window

 

[bobbymoore100]

I dont really get the issue, you had two good seasons, you havnt said whats changed really between season 2 and 3.

Despite slowly but surely strengthening my squad whilst the AI squads already start to suffer and creating more and more chances whilst conceding less and less chances our results are somehow suffering.

 

[RichTUK]

Despite slowly but surely strengthening my squad whilst the AI squads already start to suffer and creating more and more chances whilst conceding less and less chances our results are somehow suffering.

you cant just get in better players and expect it to just work, you need to adjust tactics etc. To me it looks like the players getting the chances are lacking composure or have a poor 1st touch.

 

[bobbymoore100]

you cant just get in better players and expect it to just work, you need to adjust tactics etc. To me it looks like the players getting the chances are lacking composure or have a poor 1st touch.

I think YOU should probably stop looking then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDcqhJ7g0CY I viewed this from behind the goal, sadly you cannot see what happened from this angle. As it turns out the ball is on the goal line and neither my dc or gk are interested so they wait for the opposing str to tap in. Look how long they have before the ball crosses the line. These are the kinds of goals I concede regularly.

 

[RichTUK]

I think YOU should probably stop looking then.

lol, its a forum, you asked a question, and for some reason got annoyed with my answer. Take a look at your goalkeeper and defenders awareness stats. Good luck.

 

[bobbymoore100]

lol, its a forum, you asked a question, and for some reason got annoyed with my answer. Take a look at your goalkeeper and defenders awareness stats. Good luck.

Who said I was annoyed? add a smiley face to my last post.

 

[ILoveLamp]

Just a **** game/latest patch imo. On a previous patch you would have won most of those games comfortably so SI's latest patch 'fixed' this... made user teams **** every so often and overempower the AI strikers/goalkeeper. Happened on FM14 too. Just go back to FM13 and/or before and just enjoy the game as one should.

 

[McTabish]

I think they must have added some sort of random chance to form. I know what you mean about improving your squad and somehow despite the stats going in the right direction, results roller coaster!

I had a 5-0 defeat to 24th place Notts County (no win in 8) last night with my 8th placed Burton in season 2 right after a 1-0 win at home to 1st placed Preston... But I know everyone says on here "that is real life. Football is like that."

For me the game is getting too random. I don't want to win every game but it would be nice to know if I do the right things over time, that I can start to turn a team into a winner. But lately I just feel like the random chance effect gets in the way of knowing when you're doing something right.

Also, is it me but do the only people who seem to have good form streaks are the SI Affiliate YouTube channels. Gets boring watching 6 back to back promotions or Leicester win the Premier League in season 1 while also managing Andora to a Euro Championship.

 

[bobbymoore100]

Just note, at the point of this happening Villa had not even managed a single shot in the game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h8wBa6pdLl4 Here are the final game stats

 

[dave4787]

No matter what anyone tries telling you, this is not 'your tactics'. This is a flaw in the game which takes away the realism, and as mentioned above replaces it with chance.

I have to admit, I am kind of enjoying FM15, but there is so much wrong with it, just think how good it could've been?!

 

[bobbymoore100]

No matter what anyone tries telling you, this is not 'your tactics'. This is a flaw in the game which takes away the realism, and as mentioned above replaces it with chance.

I have to admit, I am kind of enjoying FM15, but there is so much wrong with it, just think how good it could've been?!

I just don't understand how anyone can call it "normal"? You just have to do some very simple math to see that what is happening just doesn't add up. Maybe if their was a "luck" slider at the start of the game and to make the game more difficult I had decided to slide it as far as it went in the AI's direction, then I could understand it. This just makes the game look ridiculous.

 

[McTabish]

I am quite happy that this thread seems to match how I see FM this year. A lot of people get quite defensive if you mention luck or chance in the match engine and always say it's your tactics or your team talks.

The villa game above sums up my feelings. Everyone talks about one shot, one goal in FM as a big frustration and this year it is there with a vengeance. The 4-3 Newcastle game above is also something that I see a lot in my Conference South saves. I'll have 15-20 shots with about 3-5 clear cut chances and score 3 but I'll lose 4-3 as the AI has 4 shots and 4 goals with 0 clear cut chances.

We we all know FM is amazing and I love the game so much but I do have a love hate relationship this season as I have outbursts of profanities when silly things seem to happen.

 

[bobbymoore100]

I am quite happy that this thread seems to match how I see FM this year. A lot of people get quite defensive if you mention luck or chance in the match engine and always say it's your tactics or your team talks.

The villa game above sums up my feelings. Everyone talks about one shot, one goal in FM as a big frustration and this year it is there with a vengeance. The 4-3 Newcastle game above is also something that I see a lot in my Conference South saves. I'll have 15-20 shots with about 3-5 clear cut chances and score 3 but I'll lose 4-3 as the AI has 4 shots and 4 goals with 0 clear cut chances.

We we all know FM is amazing and I love the game so much but I do have a love hate relationship this season as I have outbursts of profanities when silly things seem to happen.

Both SI and those that defend the game so vehemently always forget that in real life luck works both ways. Looking at any of those screenshots above as a one off would not have me call foul. We all know that these kinds of games exist in real life but they are "freak" occurrences that go both for and against you. Here's another just for the record........

I could maybe understand it if I was using some kind of weird twisted tactic like you see a few of in the uploaded tactics thread, but this is just a simple balanced tactic that SHOULD yield a nice balance of results.

 

[vanTiggelen]

Hard to argue whether that is "realistic" or not. Is getting Burnley to compete for the EPL first season "realistic"? The statistics aren't unusual, as football isn't a game of getting shots going and dominating statistics, as they completely disregard the quality, their nature and the play. According to Opta Stats, only in 70% of the matches the teams with more shots wins, that's football. Unfortunately statistics such as the clear cuts regularly pick up on chances that aren#t all that hot either. The only way to overperform to such a degree with such a poor team first season, basically drawing all player quality moot, is typically hitting upon something that the AI can't cope with. It's not genius, after all. That is not a criticism, finding such a tactics certainly is an achievement in and on itself. It can pose problems though.

I don't know if this was done using downloaded tactics, which are typically very very aggressive, but if your tactics are overly aggressive too and push players up (lots of attack duties, attacking mentalities and similar), it may well be the case of teams finally starting to shut up shop against you. Burnley's reputation at the start of the game is low, so AI managers will attack you. Having managed two insanely successful seasons twice, a larger number of them will opt to park the bus. Hard to compare that to real life then, as you typically don't see decent teams going gung-ho against such teams for 90 minutes straight. They try to outplay them as they are forced to look for the opening, rather than make everyone rush into the box and take shot upon shot upon shot. Realism debate aside, FM has luckily made it more obvious via the body language feedback that players can get frustrated upon missing chances, and the opposing team can grow in confidence the longer it lasts the bombardment. If that balancing is off is up to debate. However you are now facing a completely different environment, visible so, as should be obvious in particular in the 2d view in which you will see backing off far earlier when you have the ball. You now have to work for space when previously, this being Burnley, was gifted to you by many a team who considered you a lesser opponent. I'm personally delighted that this is still possible, as from personal experience I'm a bit more struggling to get a parking pus tactics going myself, in previous iterations it arguably was very easy to drop deep and force the Ai to take pot shots though. But then the AI might have a plan for that when you might not.

You appear to have issues with teams that now drop deeper and try to frustrate you. If this is your tactics you had posted in the tactics thread, you only have the forward as a regular presence in the box, by the way. As teams now play more cautiously, he may be forced to ****** at chances and be crowded out. Might be worth trying a lesser aggressive mentality, and fielding a CM/A for instance who makes regular runs and looks to get into the box. A box to box midfielder obviously doesn't do this, and a playmaker not either. Alternatively an inside forward could help too. Hard to tell though. You'd need to look at who's wasting all these shots primarily. I'd guess it is the forward though from looking.

 

[bobbymoore100]

Hard to argue whether that is "realistic" or not. The only way to overperform to such a degree with such a poor team first season, basically drawing all player quality moot, is typically hitting upon something that the AI can't cope with. It's not genius, after all. That is not a criticism, finding such a tactics certainly is an achievement in and on itself. It can pose problems though.

I don't know if this was done using downloaded tactics, which are typically very very aggressive, but if your tactics are overly aggressive too and push players up (lots of attack duties and similar), it may well be the case of teams finally starting to shut up shop against you. Burnley's reputation at the start of the game is low, so AI managers will attack you. Having managed two insanely successful seasons twice, a larger number of them will opt to park the bus. Hard to compare that to real life then, as you typically don't see decent teams going gung-ho against such teams for 90 minutes straight. They try to outplay them as they are forced to look for the opening, rather than make everyone rush into the box and take shot upon shot upon shot. Realism debate aside, FM has luckily made it more obvious via the body language feedback that players can get frustrated upon missing chances, and the opposing team can grow in confidence the longer it lasts the bombardment.

I'd be the first to agree that FM needs to be more difficult. That said, you cannot justify the means by allowing the ME to adjust to this by coming up with the most ridiculous stats and scenarios just to even things out. As I've said, I do NOT use a super aggressive tactic and when it was put together 3 FM's ago it was done so in a sole attempt to get the players doing what they were supposed to be doing on the pitch.

 

[vanTiggelen]

I'd be the first to agree that FM needs to be more difficult. That said, you cannot justify the means by allowing the ME to adjust to this by coming up with the most ridiculous stats and scenarios just to even things out. As I've said, I do NOT use a super aggressive tactic and when it was put together 3 FM's ago it was done so in a sole attempt to get the players doing what they were supposed to be doing on the pitch.

There are may a handful of statistics that look very suspicious out of all those you have posted. Namely the few matches in which the AI had a 1:1 shot conversion. Going by real-life shot conversion, you should realistically expect to score 3 to 4 games in those 30 shot matches, but not necessarily more. If FM has the balance right is hard to tell, and whether teams are hit too severe by growing frustrated or boosted up to much by growing in confidence if they last such bombardments is also up for debate. Still, this is also influenced by tactics, as they influence what kind of chances you have, who gets on the end of them, as well as how well you get the balance right in terms of attacking vs. still being defensively robust.

Don't overly focus on statistics. Football doesn't work that way and neither does the game. If you watch the match, you should visibly see that teams on average drop off earlier when losing the ball as well as not pushing men as aggressively up when attacking. And that you're now forced to work for your space. One of your tactics suggests you're aggressively pushing up, as well as having only the forward getting at the end of things (I haven't tried, though). The wingers are encouraged to shoot less often, which might put even more burden on the forward to do the bulk work of finishing, when he's now being crowded out. (In general, if your forward is out of form or grows frustrated, laying the bulk of finishing on a single player will always weaken your conversion). It is hard to tell and it'd be interesting to see who takes the shots. Plus the full backs are told to overlap, which makes them leave position and get forward ASAP. Whilst this isn't an inherently risky option, you are by nature likely much more open than the opposition you now face. Naturally this can result in a counter or two every other match. Always easier to score in space rather than in a crowded box.

This isn't adjusting the difficulty to the human player. Every AI team adjusts the tactics accordingly to the opposition it faces. At the start of the save, every team will play openly against Burnley as it is considered a weaker opponent by most, no matter if it is managed by a human manager or by the AI. On occasion, you will get many chances by simply breaking away and countering. But this has changed by now, as you have done so well. As said, I parked the bus in previous iterations also, where it was arguably actually a tad too easy to get similar matches going - but my way. This was in parts fueled by bad AI tactics of old, as it never pushed enough men forward when attacking. As it didn't, it was visibly forced to take pot shots. I survived a CL group stage with a smallish team from Norway consisting of Milan and Lyon, and in the match that made it so the team converted the sole shot on target it had all match, a direct free kick. Don't get me wrong, evidently this was an amazing tactics at the start, I've never managed to get anything going like that. But you may be now facing opposition that might play a little differently on average, and it should be visible, as such.

 

[CDXtreme]

Mate you have the exact same issues as me you basically failed to adapt to your higher reputation... Teams are happy to have a draw or beat you 1-0 so they sit back and contain you... You're the victim of your own success basically, you did far better than you should have and now you think you're performing poorly... Look at your team and be honest are they good enough to achieve what you want? Look past who they are and what they did are they really good enough to win the league or challenge for it?

Im basically still in your position Iv just started pre-season for my 4th season... I won the championship easy with Derby, then finished 5th after promotion and next season I thought Id get top 4 and challenge for the title... My 3rd season is like your current one in January I realised my team probably wasnt good enough for 4th so I improved the side but looking at it again its still not good enough... You have to be ruthless lots of lads I like but they had to go for me to improve...

On top of having better players I am working on a new tactic for these dominating games... My idea is rather than getting more attacking I am going to try to draw the team out so I can break and have more space and in theory more space will result in better attacks... So instead of control I'll play counter or standard... Iv made most of my signings already and the team is far stronger but my side has a way to go before my tactics are fluid... Its kind of a pain Im seeing patterns already but I cant change anything until its fluid...

So I would suggest check your side and be honest...
Dont make massive tactical changes, I know its tempting to tear apart and rebuild but take your last tactic that was very successful and work with it...
Watch one of your most recent game or two in full and take notes, watching in full will show whats really happening...
Implement changes based on the notes...

 

[bobbymoore100]

I understand what is being said here but the facts remain. I made more chances and conceded less with a better team of players than I started with and in real life those players would be regarded and worth more than they are in FM because a players value in real life is governed by performances(as it also used to be in FM) and NOT the ridiculous in game way where a player who averages 4.2 can be worth more than a player who averages 8.6 playing in the same position. The issue is with the game here not the player/tactic.