Is FM 2023 too easy?

Simeone

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So, I've been playing FM for a long time now (1st game I bought was FM 2010 and since then i've played 6/7 yearly editions) and I always found it very hard to start the game in a top-division team with the lowest possible coaching license and "Semi-professional footballer" as the past playing experience since the team will usually underperfom and not give a **** about my instructions and I will eventually get sacked. So I end up always starting my saves in the lowest leagues and build my way up the tiers since I like to keep it the most realistic possible and not start a save as a previous international footballer or with the highest coaching license.

This year tho i gave it another try starting at Borussia Mönchengladbach. 1st season i was expected to qualify for Europa League. Just like in the previous editions of the game we started very poorly being winless after the first 6 rounds of the Bundesliga (3 draws and 3 defeats) but suddenly we won against RB Leipzig at home and things started to improve a little bit (at least at home). Overall we recovered and eventhough it wasn't the greatest of the seasons we finished short of european places by just 2 points finishing in the 8th place. Since we didn't achieve the main goal of the season the board called me to a meeting but I managed to convince them to give me another shot next season. Without pulling any fantastic signings nor having a brilliantly constructed tactic (I didnd't even set individual instructions for the players or set pieces) we're 1 game away from being crowned champions. (32 games 24W, 5D, 3L ; 69GS-24GA).

My question is: Is the game too easy this year or things just simply worked out pretty well with simple tactics and above average players?

Tactic:

1668529252400.png


Hofmann and Thuram currently injured. I usually rotate Pléa, Thuram and Simeone (Pléa and Thuram can either play as IF on the left or as a Striker, and Simeone only as a CF). I also rotate the midfield, can either play Kramer or Koné as the defensive midfielder and Neuhaus/Hofmann/Koné as CMs.

Some season league stats:
Thuram: 25(2) games, 17 goals and 2 assists 3POM - 7.37AVG
Pléa: 16(13) games, 7 goals and 7 assists 2POM - 7.16AVG
Simeone: 21(8) games, 15 goals 4 assists 2POM - 7.23AVG
Lukébakio: 30(2) games, 11 goals 9 assists 3POM - 7.26AVG
Neuhaus: 29(1) games, 8 goals 6 assists 1POM - 7.00AVG
Hofmann: 27(2) games, 6 goals 8 assists 4POM - 7.11AVG
 
You see, this is why I have zero respect left for this game.

Im not wishing to downplay your achievement, far from it, youve done very well.

But youre constantly told certain things in playing this game, your tactic violates at least 5 of them

1) Dont use too many team instructions
2) A ball winning midfielder as a single pivot wont act as a single pivot, he will vacate his position
3) Your left hand side is attack attack attack, which shouldnt work
4) Your base tactic in the fm23 version is "positive" whereas everyone should be more flexible with mentalities in this version
5) Your line of engagement is high, but your back 4 isnt leading to a loss of vertical compactness

I could go on and on and on.

And then you look at your team instructions, and you are asking the players to simultaneously play from the back, whilst also passing into space, whilst also dribbling, whilst also working the ball into the box.

Maybe if you were playing out from the back and working it into the box, then fine. Maybe if you were passing into space and dribbling, then fine.

But all of them TOGETHER???

When logic is applied to the game, this makes no sense whatsoever.

Yet there you are, about to win the league, and the guy who is highly methodical and logical is the one who feels like the game is shafting him day after day after day.

I just dont get it anymore. The game is a farce.
 
You see, this is why I have zero respect left for this game.

Im not wishing to downplay your achievement, far from it, youve done very well.

But youre constantly told certain things in playing this game, your tactic violates at least 5 of them

1) Dont use too many team instructions
2) A ball winning midfielder as a single pivot wont act as a single pivot, he will vacate his position
3) Your left hand side is attack attack attack, which shouldnt work
4) Your base tactic in the fm23 version is "positive" whereas everyone should be more flexible with mentalities in this version
5) Your line of engagement is high, but your back 4 isnt leading to a loss of vertical compactness

I could go on and on and on.

And then you look at your team instructions, and you are asking the players to simultaneously play from the back, whilst also passing into space, whilst also dribbling, whilst also working the ball into the box.

Maybe if you were playing out from the back and working it into the box, then fine. Maybe if you were passing into space and dribbling, then fine.

But all of them TOGETHER???

When logic is applied to the game, this makes no sense whatsoever.

Yet there you are, about to win the league, and the guy who is highly methodical and logical is the one who feels like the game is shafting him day after day after day.

I just dont get it anymore. The game is a farce.
Hi, thanks for your reply!

I usually don't play Netz on that role but as a Wing-Back (Support) with Pléa/Thuram as the left IF. Playing wiht Diomandé on the left as a Winger though i thought it would be better to change Netz's role into a Full-Back, since the WB are expected to play more alone on the sides.

About the team instructions i really don't see the problem in using those 4 instructions together, cause i don't think working the ball into the box playing out of defence prevents passing the ball into space (i might be wrong but it actually even makes more sense to me - for example the wingers/IFs waiting for support from the Wing-backs). Maybe the dribbling part I can agree with you tho!

About your 2nd point i understand it and makes sense to me, but my problem is that all my DM's best role is BWM and in the beggining of the save i tried playing Koné as a Half Back but it just didn't work...

With this said I don't really agree that the whole system sucks but as i said in the original post it's very very basic and primitive yes, with room for improvement. I'm open for discussion and suggestions! Thanks!
 
Hi, thanks for your reply!

I usually don't play Netz on that role but as a Wing-Back (Support) with Pléa/Thuram as the left IF. Playing wiht Diomandé on the left as a Winger though i thought it would be better to change Netz's role into a Full-Back, since the WB are expected to play more alone on the sides.

About the team instructions i really don't see the problem in using those 4 instructions together, cause i don't think working the ball into the box playing out of defence prevents passing the ball into space (i might be wrong but it actually even makes more sense to me - for example the wingers/IFs waiting for support from the Wing-backs). Maybe the dribbling part I can agree with you tho!

About your 2nd point i understand it and makes sense to me, but my problem is that all my DM's best role is BWM and in the beginning of the save i tried playing Koné as a Half Back but it just didn't work...

With this said I don't really agree that the whole system sucks but as i said in the original post it's very very basic and primitive yes, with room for improvement. I'm open for discussion and suggestions! Thanks!

Like I said, im not criticising you because youre doing brilliantly at the game. Im criticising the game for being so stupid.

Your tactic should have absolutely no chance of working.

Think what would happen in an actual real life game of football with this tactic.

1) A high press but defence sat deeper.... If the opposition was to beat your initial press, there would be huge amounts of space for them to play in.

2) Youre asking your players to play out from the back and work the ball into the box, which would be two things youd associate with controlling possession football, and yet youre asking them to pass into space and dribble more which is exactly what you would see in a counter attack system, where youd need players to carry you up the pitch by running with the ball, and exploit gaps with direct balls into space.

You cant logically tick both, which comes first? if youre working the ball into the box, youll just (THEORETICALLY) kick the ball away by passing into space. If youre trying to work the ball into the box then THEORETICALLY youll lose the opportunity to play direct balls into space because youre asking the players to be more patient.

Its a total contradiction.

3) Youve paired two ball winning midfielders together in the middle of the pitch and one attacking midfielder. The ball winning midfielders hunt the ball whilst the attacking midfielder is trying to attack the box, so you have ZERO midfield shape, without the ball your ball winners are pressing like crazy, and WITH the ball, your central midfielder is trying to get onto the end of things, not create things.

Again, please dont take this as a dig at you, its not at you, its at the GAME.

Someone who watches a lot of football wouldnt pick a tactic like this. They would then sit there at their computer and lose lose lose draw win lose lose lose and think, what the actual ****, this game is clearly broken because nothing makes sense.

And then you start up a thread saying "the games too easy", and you put up a tactic that makes ZERO sense, and yet youre beating Bayern Munich FFS in the league.

So how is someone supposed to make a good tactic when the things that should work DONT and random instructions DO?

It just shows how completely stupid and pointless the game is.
 
Like I said, im not criticising you because youre doing brilliantly at the game. Im criticising the game for being so stupid.

Your tactic should have absolutely no chance of working.

Think what would happen in an actual real life game of football with this tactic.

1) A high press but defence sat deeper.... If the opposition was to beat your initial press, there would be huge amounts of space for them to play in.

2) Youre asking your players to play out from the back and work the ball into the box, which would be two things youd associate with controlling possession football, and yet youre asking them to pass into space and dribble more which is exactly what you would see in a counter attack system, where youd need players to carry you up the pitch by running with the ball, and exploit gaps with direct balls into space.

You cant logically tick both, which comes first? if youre working the ball into the box, youll just (THEORETICALLY) kick the ball away by passing into space. If youre trying to work the ball into the box then THEORETICALLY youll lose the opportunity to play direct balls into space because youre asking the players to be more patient.

Its a total contradiction.

3) Youve paired two ball winning midfielders together in the middle of the pitch and one attacking midfielder. The ball winning midfielders hunt the ball whilst the attacking midfielder is trying to attack the box, so you have ZERO midfield shape, without the ball your ball winners are pressing like crazy, and WITH the ball, your central midfielder is trying to get onto the end of things, not create things.

Again, please dont take this as a dig at you, its not at you, its at the GAME.

Someone who watches a lot of football wouldnt pick a tactic like this. They would then sit there at their computer and lose lose lose draw win lose lose lose and think, what the actual ****, this game is clearly broken because nothing makes sense.

And then you start up a thread saying "the games too easy", and you put up a tactic that makes ZERO sense, and yet youre beating Bayern Munich FFS in the league.

So how is someone supposed to make a good tactic when the things that should work DONT and random instructions DO?

It just shows how completely stupid and pointless the game is.

Really sympathise with you.
This years game has been killing me, especially the insane jump in difficulty in Away matches. I think the ME has some ironing out needed.

I've had to use some options that don't really make sense / I don't want to use just to make the results bearable.
The things I've done: i
counter/counter press with highest pressing intensity. I didn't want to use gegen but felt forced.
I've also gone with high press, standard line and prevent short gk distribution. This combo shouldn't really work (it should stretch my team too much) but it does.
And Get Stuck In (which I hate using)

My results have picked up now.
Makes it slightly nonsensical but more enjoyable!
 
Really sympathise with you.
This years game has been killing me, especially the insane jump in difficulty in Away matches. I think the ME has some ironing out needed.

I've had to use some options that don't really make sense / I don't want to use just to make the results bearable.
The things I've done: i
counter/counter press with highest pressing intensity. I didn't want to use gegen but felt forced.
I've also gone with high press, standard line and prevent short gk distribution. This combo shouldn't really work (it should stretch my team too much) but it does.
And Get Stuck In (which I hate using)

My results have picked up now.
Makes it slightly nonsensical but more enjoyable!

Hi there, have to agree with you, i think the match engine is so poor, particularly the centre backs they just cannot defend. Even if they can defend a situation, they seem totally incapable of either clearing their lines or picking a pass 5 yards to the side, its really just bafflingly bad.

I know people say mentality matters more in this version, and thats fair enough. But if you hypothetically took a game v any opponent one week at home, and then played them again the week after away, i seriously doubt your teams mentality needs to change JUST because its an away game.

Theres going to be an optimal way to play against this team, regardless of where you are playing. And lets for arguments sake say its Liverpool v Aston Villa.... Id feel supremely confident that in the home game, id win 2 or 3 nil.

We could go away and id be absolutely over the moon to scrape a draw. Against exactly the same team. Did i forget how to manage a team overnight or something? it shouldnt be that much different, if at all.

Im actually playing FM20 right now, not just because i think the match engine is actually pretty good in that game, but the game is just less bloated and full of junk. It runs quicker, scouting seems easier, i prefer the way they display information like condition. Some of the new stats that are in FM23, ill just admit im not savvy enough to delve into them, so I dont miss them.

I regret buying 23 to be honest, id have been more than happy with a database update on 22.
 
Actually, I think the opposite. I was sacked at the end of the second season at Newcastle because I didnt sign enough high reputation players, despite finishing a close second to Man City both times and reaching the Champs League semis! Last time I was sacked was in Fm12!!
 
Actually, I think the opposite. I was sacked at the end of the second season at Newcastle because I didnt sign enough high reputation players, despite finishing a close second to Man City both times and reaching the Champs League semis! Last time I was sacked was in Fm12!!
In my opinion that should be fixed because the result should be in the first place,not transfers,like in real world
 
In my opinion that should be fixed because the result should be in the first place,not transfers,like in real world
That's not true. Ancellotti in his first time at madrid got sacked after winning the cup and CL in his previous year.
Tuchel got sacked by chelsea by winning them the CL 1.5 year ago and being top 4 in league.
Koeman was second and still in the CL race and got sacked by barcelona and put Xavi who dropped them to Europa league twice and even lost there.
Capello was sacked after winning La Liga with real madrid which they hadn't win in 4 years.
Pellegrini came second to the arguably best barcelona side ever and got sacked.
Mourinho got sacked by chelsea in september in 2007 after winning 2 back to back premier league titles and the cup....
The real world is having that stuff too boards want some other stuff other than winning and i like the idea that they implanted in the game
won't even bother discussing PSG coaches who got sacked by reaching CL final and losing it :p
 
That's not true. Ancellotti in his first time at madrid got sacked after winning the cup and CL in his previous year.
Tuchel got sacked by chelsea by winning them the CL 1.5 year ago and being top 4 in league.
Koeman was second and still in the CL race and got sacked by barcelona and put Xavi who dropped them to Europa league twice and even lost there.
Capello was sacked after winning La Liga with real madrid which they hadn't win in 4 years.
Pellegrini came second to the arguably best barcelona side ever and got sacked.
Mourinho got sacked by chelsea in september in 2007 after winning 2 back to back premier league titles and the cup....
The real world is having that stuff too boards want some other stuff other than winning and i like the idea that they implanted in the game
won't even bother discussing PSG coaches who got sacked by reaching CL final and losing it :p
And all of them was sacked because they didn't get world class players,come on..
 
I always start unemployed and do my journey that way, In January I got the job at Lecco in Serie C who had not won in 8 and were a place above the relegation zone. I went on to lose only 1 game the rest of the league campaign and finish 7th, winning all playoff games and getting promoted to Serie B. I've just started this season and I'm mid table after 5 games and my squad to be fair is pretty rubbish. I drew Sampdoria in the cup who are in Serie A and beat them 6-0 away?? i even drew with Torino in the league and their team is WAY too good for Serie B. I feel like it's easy for me to exceed expectations on FM23 I was fearing Serie B with my squad but I'm smashing it without doing anything special.
 
And all of them was sacked because they didn't get world class players,come on..
The reason you get sacked isn't because you don't buy a player but because you don't follow board vision for the club and that's exactly what happened in their cases . Not buying world class players can be a reason to get sacked if the board wish otherwise.
 
I always start unemployed and do my journey that way, In January I got the job at Lecco in Serie C who had not won in 8 and were a place above the relegation zone. I went on to lose only 1 game the rest of the league campaign and finish 7th, winning all playoff games and getting promoted to Serie B. I've just started this season and I'm mid table after 5 games and my squad to be fair is pretty rubbish. I drew Sampdoria in the cup who are in Serie A and beat them 6-0 away?? i even drew with Torino in the league and their team is WAY too good for Serie B. I feel like it's easy for me to exceed expectations on FM23 I was fearing Serie B with my squad but I'm smashing it without doing anything special.
You probably have a good starting 11 for serie b and rubbish subs that's why the average of your team is low and the other teams underestimate you playing offensive tactics against you so you can easily break their defenses that's an issue with FM the last 5 years if you focus on your starting 11 more and have pretty bad subs your team is considered weaker than it is actually so the opponent deploy different tactics than it would. The only downside on this is that a long term injury can make your campaign go south
 
You probably have a good starting 11 for serie b and rubbish subs that's why the average of your team is low and the other teams underestimate you playing offensive tactics against you so you can easily break their defenses that's an issue with FM the last 5 years if you focus on your starting 11 more and have pretty bad subs your team is considered weaker than it is actually so the opponent deploy different tactics than it would. The only downside on this is that a long term injury can make your campaign go south


Yeah i get you bro, but in honestly i have a good CM and a good AMC and a half decent striker. but the rest of the players in my starting 11 aren't good enough i really shouldnt be doing as well as i have been. but i was playing last night and it seems to of evened out abit ive had a few hammerings now. I just felt that it was very much unrealistic until last gaming session haha
 
Yeah i get you bro, but in honestly i have a good CM and a good AMC and a half decent striker. but the rest of the players in my starting 11 aren't good enough i really shouldnt be doing as well as i have been. but i was playing last night and it seems to of evened out abit ive had a few hammerings now. I just felt that it was very much unrealistic until last gaming session haha
Having a good AMC & CM mean you dominate their midfields when they play attacking that give you the ball and the spaces to create chances half decent striker can convert a few of them . Their teams have rubbish players too don't forget that. You just have less balance between good/rubbish players which help you win.
 
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