4-1-4-1 Inputs and Suggestions

[kr10]

Hey everyone,

Long time FMer/forum lurker for a while now. Pretty much read most thread on here, but was looking for some advice on a couple of issues I wasn't sure of.

Summary - I'm managing Stockport Country now, after my save last with Milan (10 seasons) because a little too dominant - the 8 best players in the world all played on my team, and I was winning most CL games by large margins, including 4 straight titles to end the save.

This is my first LLM save - got 3 straight promotions (except in VNL where I lost on pens in playoff finals), to sit in League 1.

My first season in League 1, I was top of the table after 30 games, on a great run of form. However, I then went through one of the worst patches of form in my FM career (3 wins in the last 16 games), ended up fourth, and lost in the playoffs. I have the lowest wage budget in League 1, so decided a tweak in my tactics and player investment is required.

Until now, I ran a 4-1-4-1 setup as follows:

GK
FB(At) CD CD FB(s)
A(D)
W(s) CM(At) AP(S) W (At)
DLF (S)

Traditional wingers, not opposite footed players.

Besides my DLF, my CM(At) - who has good finishing - was my second highest goalscorer.

While being good defensively (20 clean sheets in first 30 games) my tactic had a few issues:

- My W(At)didn't contribute enough goal scoring wise
- My AP(S) only had 5 assists all season despite playing 50 odd games
- FB (At) didn't really contribute as expected - wasn't able to get him and the W on his side to play together effectively. I didn't use 2 W (At) as i'm **** bent on not having mirror image attacks on both flanks.
- Last third of the season, I totally collapsed - complacency wasn't an issue according to pre match Assistant advice, so im suspecting that teams got defensive on me and I wasn't able to score.
- I was having some issues getting the ball to my right winger as the playmaker was on the opposite side - however I like my CM (At) to be on the side of his stronger foot so he can score goals more effectively when he bursts forward

I played standard, flexible, with play out of defense, pass into space, work ball into box - no PIs.

Going forward, I am looking at keeping the same shape, but adding more diversity into my attacks - hence 4-1-4-1 diversity. Thinking of a tactic like this:

GK
FB(s) CD CD WB (At)***
DM(D)
W(At) CM(At) DLP(S)** WM (At)*
DLF(S)

* I want to play a right footed player here to act as a deep lying inside forward - PI get further forward, site narrower, cut inside, cross less often, dribble more

** DLP(S) or AP(s) here? I thought DLP would work better, as it would give the WM (at) space to cut into - however, I am worried the distance between him and the CM (at)would become too large. Also, as DLP(S) he will provide more cover for the attacking wingback

*** To aggressively attacking the space left by the narrower, cutting inside WM

I have a few questions guys, would be great if you could help -

1. Would you play an AP or DLP (both support) in the LCM role? I have laid out my thoughts above, but still not 100% sure - also, the DLP in my save doesn't have more risky passes ticked by default, perhaps a bug (I did train him however to try killer balls and dictate tempo)

2. I didn't rotate much at all last season, but didn't have any fitness/fatigue issues... also very careful to not create complacency. Was it just because teams played more defensive/counter against me, so I wasn't able to break them down?

3. Would W(at) and CM (at) work together effectively? I've found Attack wingers to be more effective in the MR/ML strata, and also need the CM (at) to provide a goal scoring threat, just wondering if there was a better way to set this up - I generally try to avoid 2 attacking roles next to each other. I've read all the pairs and combinations guides, unfortunately the link between a Mezza'la and wide player hasn't been covered (yes, I'm italian football fan

4. Team instructions - my philosophy of football is pass and move, create chances through intelligent off the ball movement and killer balls into space. I haven't ticked roam from position, since LLM players don't have the mental stats for that. I was thinking of adding lower tempo, as that way I could patiently pass the ball around until there is a team mate in a good position - thoughts on this? Pass into space I want to keep, as it is a fundamental element of the way I like to see football played.

I don't want a high possession tactic per se, just one that is patient enough to get my players into good spaces through good off the ball movement.

Cheers guys and thanks very much in advance!

 

[Bigpapa42]

1. I like DLP as it adds a bit more defensive stability. AP puts the player further forward but you lose that defensive aspect. And with a CM-A beside them, I think that will help. You could also go for a Roaming Playmaker if the player you have in that spot has decent physicals. I recently switched from a DLP-S to RM and am loving it. Don't find it exposes the side with him being out of position, which was a concern.

2. Once you have a bit of success with a side, your reputation goes up, you become favored, and teams sit deeper. You need to find ways to pick your way thru. That can be mean putting more players in advanced positions, more runners from deep, but those expose you to a counter. So maybe go a bit more conservative yourself, trying to draw them out and create space. Wont' always work but less risky IMO.

3. A W-A and CM-A on the same side is leaving you awfully exposed. Its risky. I've found W-A can be effective, but so can WM or even Wide Playmaker. If you have a player with reasonably rounded skills, a Wide Playmaker can add another dimension to your attack. The WP won't get forward a ton but that helps with the defensive aspect a bit.

4. I am using a similar formation and looking for similar results. I don't do LLM so that's a factor I can't account for entirely. But the level of your players may limit you to some degree. But if you want them to play intelligently, have you considered going more fluid? To me, that gives them more freedom to use their skills and find the space. I add and drop Pass into Space depending on whether the opposition is going to press. I use Very Fluid and with the players I have (good for the level), I trust they will make a pass and move into a good position. They tend to.

 

[goal326499]

I'm assuming you're using flexible fluidity? I might be wrong about it, but if I play highly structured, then all my defenders have simple roles and defend duties, midfielders simple roles and support duties, and strikers simple roles and attack duties. The more I change toward very fluid, the more I ask my players to do. So, in a flexible setup, my dm would have to do more then just defend, so I would put him on support. My CMs would have to do more then support, so attack both, and my striker more then attack, so support. With a fluid setup, I might just change one CM to defend.

 

[kr10]

1. I like DLP as it adds a bit more defensive stability. AP puts the player further forward but you lose that defensive aspect. And with a CM-A beside them, I think that will help. You could also go for a Roaming Playmaker if the player you have in that spot has decent physicals. I recently switched from a DLP-S to RM and am loving it. Don't find it exposes the side with him being out of position, which was a concern.


2. Once you have a bit of success with a side, your reputation goes up, you become favored, and teams sit deeper. You need to find ways to pick your way thru. That can be mean putting more players in advanced positions, more runners from deep, but those expose you to a counter. So maybe go a bit more conservative yourself, trying to draw them out and create space. Wont' always work but less risky IMO.

3. A W-A and CM-A on the same side is leaving you awfully exposed. Its risky. I've found W-A can be effective, but so can WM or even Wide Playmaker. If you have a player with reasonably rounded skills, a Wide Playmaker can add another dimension to your attack. The WP won't get forward a ton but that helps with the defensive aspect a bit.

4. I am using a similar formation and looking for similar results. I don't do LLM so that's a factor I can't account for entirely. But the level of your players may limit you to some degree. But if you want them to play intelligently, have you considered going more fluid? To me, that gives them more freedom to use their skills and find the space. I add and drop Pass into Space depending on whether the opposition is going to press. I use Very Fluid and with the players I have (good for the level), I trust they will make a pass and move into a good position. They tend to.

1. Thanks for the inputs... I have decided to go with a DLP-S, found him linking especially well with my WB(A) on the left
I'm typically a huge proponent of fluid football, with lots of movement and creative expression. However, this is something I plan to introduce later (roam from position, be more expressive) once I get better players. Right now I just entered the premier league with a full full of mostly sky bet championship players. I give select roaming/creative expression to certain players through PIs and PPMs.

2. Haven't full figured this out yet, but managed to do well enough despite the usual end of season slump in form. Won SkyBet league 1 very comfortably (2nd year in the league after a late collapse last year), and qualified from Sky Bet Championship through the playoffs (again a late collapose, but came 5th and managed to win the playoffs). I've made the journey from Vanarama North to Premier League in just 7 seasons, couldn't be happier.

3. I played around with this a lot, and decided on a B2B at RCM, with a W(A) - since my LM was cutting in/acting like an inside forward, I wanted a true winger here. I changed my FB(S) to FB(D), as I felt that the support duty fullback was pushing up too far and leaving my open to counters. Slight concern regarding gap between FB and W, but with the B2B to link play I think it offers the right balance.

4. I have specific instructions on roaming/creative freedom, as my players aren't yet good enough tactically to execute. For example, my playmaker has been trained in killer balls, dictate tempo, and switch flanks, while my DLF, who has amazing mental stats, has been instructed to roam from position

 

[kr10]

Plug and Play 4-1-4-1

Summary of my revised tactics below - for anyone who wants to give this a go, I would love to see if it works for other people as well. Given that I have used this as an LLM tactic, I am fairly confident that the tactic plays a large part, rather than the players.

Note: For better teams, experimenting with more fluidity/roaming/creative freedom/aggressive mentality could work.

Mentality: Standard
Fluidity: Flexible

GK
FB(D) CB CB WBa

DM(D)

Wa B2B DLP(S) WMa

DLF(S)

TIs: Play out of defense, work ball into box, lower tempo
Player instructions (only key ones shown):

WB: Stay Wider
WM: Sit narrower, cut inside with ball, get further forward, cross less often, dribble more, shoot less (Right footed player needed here)
B2B: Get further forward

Shoot less on all my front 5.

Play the same tactic home and away.

Few notes on gameplay:

- The WMa, WB(A), and DLP(S) link together wonderfully. You will see a lot of overlaps and crosses from the left side. My WB was one of my top assisters
- You will see a ton of passes from the DLF to the B2B, who surges into the box. Training him in gets further forward PPM is very useful, he usually bags 15 goals a season or so for me
- FB on the right is kept on defend, as the B2B and winger push up fairly aggressively - FB(S) pushes up unnecessarily and makes your vulnerable to counters
- I preach having different routes of attack. In this formation, there are 4 major routes:

1. Crosses from WBa on the left, most likely a pass from the DLP on his side
2. DLF dropping deep, feeding the WMa who acts as an inside forward
3. Cross from Wa on the right, fed either by the B2B, or a line down the flank from the right fullback
4. DLF dropping deep and playing a throughball to the onrushing B2B

Notes on key player requirements

1. WBa: Good crossing, dribbling, quickness
2. WMa: Right footed, good creative, dribbling, finish stats (think - Inside forward with high work rate)
3. DLF(S): Good passing, vision, teamwork
4. B2B: Good finishing, long shots, work rate, stamina

Would be interested to see if anyone else has success using this tactic as a plug and play. I have reached the premier league in 7 seasons from Vanarama North, which I think is a reasonably good achievement, and find myself in 10th in the premier league after 23 games played.

Play with full LLM rules, no editor, search bar, etc.

Feedback/comments would be much appreciated.