Igneos79

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4-5-1 formation, as shown above, features 4 defensive players, 5 midfield players, and 1 striker, hence the name 4-5-1. Since it offers many players in the midfield section, it is usually used by teams that want to win possession in the middle, and pass and move their way to the goal. When defending, the players stay wide, and cover zones of the pitch, covering a lot of pitch that way, and since two CB's are staying rather far from one another, the DM player drops in between. When defending, there is always at least five players defending. In attack, this formation features only one striker, so it is imperative to get more players into the box for crosses to be effective, as the lone striker stands very little chance of scoring against 4 or 5 defenders. The only strategy in fm that offers wide width is overload, so my suggestions for the roles are based on it.

Player roles:

GK should be a sweeper keeper. He can start counter attacks with through balls, and also fullfill the role of a sweeper, with a pushed up defensive line.

Two CB's should be central defenders for keeping possesion, and one can be a ballplaying defender if you have a player capable of playing the role. The BPD can initiate counter attacks. With a high defensive line, they should do the offside trap. You can also use two BPD, if you have players of sufficient calibre.

FB players should be wing backs with automatic duties. With overload strategy, they will be on attack when automatic is selected. The players above them are acting as inside forwards, and cutting inside, so the wingbacks should provide width.

DM player should be a destroyer, meaning he needs to have a defend duty. He should have solid passing skills and great composure to remain calm and hold up the ball until attack organizes. Therefore, a deeplying playmaker with defend duty is preferable.

CM players should both be doing offensive and defensive work. They should get into the box for crossess to help the lone forward, and harrie attacking midfielders in defence. Therefore, two box to box midfielders are required, but with different ppms. One of them should have playmaker ppms. It is imperative they are not close together, and stay wide from each other. You can also use 2 deep lying playmakers with support duties, but in that case, you should play on the counter and with poacher or advanced forward as striker.

Wide players need to be smart, with great decions making and passing and creativity. They need no physicall attributes, and they should preferably do both crosses and cut inside. So adv.playmaker with attack duty is the obvious choice.

Striker can play many roles, depending on the player at your disposal. In case you are using at least two players with run from deep often, he can play as a deeplying forward or trequarista, and if not, he should be a poacher or advanced forward.. I beleive Messi plays as a poacher for Barcelona here, as he is prolly the best poacher in the world with at least 15 in all primary stats required for the role, and in fact being the best poacher in the world.

Team Settings:

It is imperative that your team keeps shape and cover zones of the pitch. Therefore, zonal marking and stick to position is required. The playmaker roles don't do roaming by default. If using stick to position, more disciplined creative freedom is required. If you are pressing that much with press more and overload strategy, you need to be carefull in the tackle, and using more cautios tackling will actually set all your players to medium tackling, so it is the recommended option.

Shouts:

none needed, if you followed the above advice, you should play exactly like barca.

Note:

The 4-5-1 formation can be used without short passing, and by using direct passing, but in that case, you should use counter strategy which offers narrow width.
 
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Firstly you really shouldn't be building any side with Overload as a key factor,

The only strategy in fm that offers wide width is overload, so my suggestions for the roles are based on it.

This isnt true, using shouts you can get width even from defensive.

FB players should be wing backs with automatic duties. With overload strategy, they will be on attack when automatic is selected. The players above them are acting as inside forwards, and cutting inside, so the wingbacks should provide width.

you could simply put them on attack on any other duty.

Also while you can use those roles, they are by no means the set roles for the 4-3-3, there are plenty of combinations that can be used.
 
Firstly you really shouldn't be building any side with Overload as a key factor,
This isnt true, using shouts you can get width even from defensive.
you could simply put them on attack on any other duty.
Also while you can use those roles, they are by no means the set roles for the 4-3-3, there are plenty of combinations that can be used.

I never mentioned overload was a key factor, simply it's the only one that offers wide width. You can get wide width with attack and shout play wider, but not with anything lower then that, unless you move the slider yourself. And I doubt Barcas manager uses shouts at begining of every game, if using any at all. FB Automatic duty is preferable, so you can change strategy during a match, and go more defensive, without need for altering anything else. And yes, I guess you can use other duties and roles in a 4-5-1, but I honestly doubt you would have any luck with it, at least in Real World.
 
I never mentioned overload was a key factor, simply it's the only one that offers wide width. You can get wide width with attack and shout play wider, but not with anything lower then that, unless you move the slider yourself. And I doubt Barcas manager uses shouts at begining of every game, if using any at all. FB Automatic duty is preferable, so you can change strategy during a match, and go more defensive, without need for altering anything else. And yes, I guess you can use other duties and roles in a 4-5-1, but I honestly doubt you would have any luck with it, at least in Real World.

Overload is not the only one that provides width, thats the point I'm making.

You can get wide with all the way down to defensive. Shouts are instructions, ignore the name. Barca are told to stretch the pitch, like the play wider shout would instruct you.

Chelsea and Barca played entirely different 4-3-3 under Jose and Pep irl, both had immense amounts of success.

And you can lots of success in game with different 4-3-3s
 
Overload is not the only one that provides width, thats the point I'm making.

You can get wide with all the way down to defensive. Shouts are instructions, ignore the name. Barca are told to stretch the pitch, like the play wider shout would instruct you.

Chelsea and Barca played entirely different 4-3-3 under Jose and Pep irl, both had immense amounts of success.

And you can lots of success in game with different 4-3-3s

No offense dude, and I know you're the moderator, but I don't think you know what you are talking about. Even with play wider shout, with a more defensive strategy, you can't get more than normal width. If you don't beleive that, use a shout in match, and then pause the match, and click on tactics in the upper right. You will see your width has changed, but not to wide. Only with attack strategy and overload you can get wide, others offer normal at most. It only changes a small bit, and you can't get wide with defensive strategy. Also, 4-3-3 is a formation with 3 midfielders and three strikers, and this is a 4-5-1. You are correct it can be played differently, you can play with mixed passing and normal width, or you can play direct with narrow width, all of that requiring different strategy. For wide width with short passing or aka barcelona play, overload is necessary.
 
No offense dude, and I know you're the moderator, but I don't think you know what you are talking about. Even with play wider shout, with a more defensive strategy, you can't get more than normal width. If you don't beleive that, use a shout in match, and then pause the match, and click on tactics in the upper right. You will see your width has changed, but not to wide. Only with attack strategy and overload you can get wide, others offer normal at most. It only changes a small bit, and you can't get wide with defensive strategy. Also, 4-3-3 is a formation with 3 midfielders and three strikers, and this is a 4-5-1. You are correct it can be played differently, you can play with mixed passing and normal width, or you can play direct with narrow width, all of that requiring different strategy. For wide width with short passing or aka barcelona play, overload is necessary.

I think Mike was referring to that the shouts using more width not only increases the width, but also the wide players tendency to huge the touchline with the ball
 
I think Mike was referring to that the shouts using more width not only increases the width, but also the wide players tendency to huge the touchline with the ball

I don't know about tendencies, but I do know they are ordered to hug the line if using exploit the flanks shout, regardless of other instructions. Without it though, not really sure...I'm still in the process of learning :D
 
No offense dude, and I know you're the moderator, but I don't think you know what you are talking about. Even with play wider shout, with a more defensive strategy, you can't get more than normal width. If you don't beleive that, use a shout in match, and then pause the match, and click on tactics in the upper right. You will see your width has changed, but not to wide. Only with attack strategy and overload you can get wide, others offer normal at most. It only changes a small bit, and you can't get wide with defensive strategy. Also, 4-3-3 is a formation with 3 midfielders and three strikers, and this is a 4-5-1. You are correct it can be played differently, you can play with mixed passing and normal width, or you can play direct with narrow width, all of that requiring different strategy. For wide width with short passing or aka barcelona play, overload is necessary.


Firstly the 4-3-3/4-5-1 can be called the same. If you really wanted to get technical, you would call it a 4-1-2-2-1, since the 4-5-1 also exists as a flat midfield.

Now, Barcelona play isn't achieved with overload, because Barcelona are not very risky side. The strategies combine risk vs reward.

Secondly ignore what the sliders look like. Look at how it plays on the pitch.

Play wider, retain possession, pass into space, combined with a relatively safe mentality and more pressing, will push your side up the pitch, shorten the length, increase the width, and maintain that patience that Barcelona. Wing back attack will already hug the touch line, and a balanced philosophy gives you the big splits for the overlaps required. Not giving your inside forward roaming means he will stay wide and then cut in on the ball, rather than drifting into the channel.
 
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Firstly the 4-3-3/4-5-1 can be called the same. If you really wanted to get technical, you would call it a 4-1-2-2-1, since the 4-5-1 also exists as a flat midfield.

Now, Barcelona play isn't achieved with overload, because Barcelona are not very risky side. The strategies combine risk vs reward.

Secondly ignore what the sliders look like. Look at how it plays on the pitch.

Play wider, retain possession, pass into space, combined with a relatively safe mentality and more pressing, will push your side up the pitch, shorten the length, increase the width, and maintain that patience that Barcelona. Wing back attack will already hug the touch line, and a balanced philosophy gives you the big splits for the overlaps required. Not giving your inside forward roaming means he will stay wide and then cut in on the ball, rather than drifting into the channel.

Ok, I will go try that with a standard strategy. Let you know the results
 
Just tried it with chelsea....all I can say is that you were right, they do play a lot more carefull.....however, the defensive line was low, the pressing wasn't at maximum, we got closed down by better teams, and I had to use shouts at the start of every match. I tried saving the tactic with shouts used, but they didn't play as they should, so that means you have to use shouts every match. Another thing is I didn't achieve possession, nor had good results, so to conclude, I would advise you something similar to what you advised me. Ignore what overload stands for, and look at the options it gives you. Like counter ticked on, offside ticked on, low time waisting, high pressing, etc...
 
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