According to wikipedia...and some of my own thoughts

[Igneos79]

According to wikip the basic principle of total football is the idea that every player, except the gk can play everywhere on the pitch. In terms of FM, very fluid philosophy is what does this, and you should choose it, if you want to play total football. Furthermore, wikip states that TF is attacking football, so you should choose attack strategy. However, wikip states that tiki taka is neither offensive nor defensive, it is a directionless extreme. If you are planing on playing tiki taka, you should therefore choose standard strategy. Both of these rely on player roaming, which basically means that your attacking players have the freedom to move around the pitch freely, whilst being covered by one of the players behind him. In order for them to be effective in roaming, they should have high creative freedom and do as they wish. Sometimes, all that a good player needs is freedom to do what he thinks he should do. Your players will therefore ignore your tactical instructions, but that is exactly what you want. If you keep playing same ol same ol, the opponents will read you, and you will have a hard time scoring and winning. The moment of magic that your player will do is what you should aim for. Furthermore to succesfully keep the ball, you should employ pressing into your tactic. Push the defense line high up, to compact space and be closer to your opponent so you can interfere with their passing, hassle them, and have your CM, DM and CD players on tight marking to restrict their passing (CM) and to stop them from attacking the box (CD) or shoot from edge of area (DM). Furthemore, in order to effectively score goals and play through their defence, you should have players that offer width. Either attacking wingers, or overlapping fullbacks/wingbacks. Your width will increase by using these players, who should be ordered to stay wide and run wide in player instructions. Your general width in team settings should be wider, so that your players are stretching the opposition and play through them. If using overlaps and overlapping fullbacks, wingbacks, complete wingbacks, you should set your wide players (like inside forwards for example) to cut in. If not using overlaps, you should have at least one player that stretches the pitch. You should use overlaps if playing total football, and you shouldn' use overlaps if playing tiki taka. If using a false nine, it would be a good idea to help him out by using a false 10 (CM-attack), as the high player droping deep, and deep player going further up creates problems to any defence. If not using overlaps, you should perhaps use a winger and an inside forward for the same reason as you are using a false 9 and false 10, destabilizing defence, as the winger will stretch defence, and the inside forward will cut in. You can effectively use 4 ways of destabilizing defences, and that is what you should do.

Unfortunately, I'm unemployed, and can't afford to buy FM 14, so you will have to use this text as a template to create a tactic, as I can't create one for you. And I'm not sure if demo tactics will work.

 

[Igneos79]

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I have created these two in demo, so not sure if they will work in full game...

Enjoy!

 

[Igneos79]

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Made some changes

 

[spiattalo]

Hey there, I liked your post and I'm willing to give your Total Football tactic a try - with a lower team. Why did you set a complete-wingback and a wingback?

 

[miguelalves]

According to wikip the basic principle of total football is the idea that every player, except the gk can play everywhere on the pitch. In terms of FM, very fluid philosophy is what does this, and you should choose it, if you want to play total football. Furthermore, wikip states that TF is attacking football, so you should choose attack strategy. However, wikip states that tiki taka is neither offensive nor defensive, it is a directionless extreme. If you are planing on playing tiki taka, you should therefore choose standard strategy. Both of these rely on player roaming, which basically means that your attacking players have the freedom to move around the pitch freely, whilst being covered by one of the players behind him. In order for them to be effective in roaming, they should have high creative freedom and do as they wish. Sometimes, all that a good player needs is freedom to do what he thinks he should do. Your players will therefore ignore your tactical instructions, but that is exactly what you want. If you keep playing same ol same ol, the opponents will read you, and you will have a hard time scoring and winning. The moment of magic that your player will do is what you should aim for. Furthermore to succesfully keep the ball, you should employ pressing into your tactic. Push the defense line high up, to compact space and be closer to your opponent so you can interfere with their passing, hassle them, and have your CM, DM and CD players on tight marking to restrict their passing (CM) and to stop them from attacking the box (CD) or shoot from edge of area (DM). Furthemore, in order to effectively score goals and play through their defence, you should have players that offer width. Either attacking wingers, or overlapping fullbacks/wingbacks. Your width will increase by using these players, who should be ordered to stay wide and run wide in player instructions, whilst your general width in team settings should be narrow, so that your players are close to one another to incorporate short passing, and at the same time, restrict your opponents passing options. If using overlaps and overlapping fullbacks, wingbacks, complete wingbacks, you should set your wide players (like inside forwards for example) to sit narrower and occupy space closer to centre, and cut in. If not using overlaps, your wide player should stay wide. You should use overlaps if playing total football, and you shouldn' use overlaps or exploiting the middle if playing tiki taka. If using a false nine, it would be a good idea to help him out by using a false 10 (CM-attack), as the high player droping deep, and deep player going further up creates problems to any defence. If not using overlaps, you should perhaps use a winger and an inside forward for the same reason as you are using a false 9 and false 10, destabilizing defence, as the winger will stretch defence, and the inside forward will cut in. You can effectively use 4 ways of destabilizing defences, and that is what you should do.

Unfortunately, I'm unemployed, and can't afford to buy FM 14, so you will have to use this text as a template to create a tactic, as I can't create one for you. And I'm not sure if demo tactics will work.

These are great ideas, the only problems I see are:

width: if set to play narrow the passing focus will be through the middle and it is intended to focus passing mixed... although I think this can be worked out on player instructions;

False 9: is useful when playing alone, it seems better suited to a partnership with a AF or CF. If you read the role description, maybe (it really is a maybe) a target man (support) will work better because he will wait from his team mates and will try one-two's

CM (attack) - this maybe a problem because he moves a lot from his position leaving too much space for the opponent to explore, I would go along with an AP (support or attack, not sure)

No overlaps in tiki-taka ??? It's rather common to see Alba / Alves overlapping (Alves even more). Neymar (previously Villa) and Pedro have different tasks, Neymar would be a IF / attack, Pedro a IF / support or a winger (not a classical one that goes to the line and cross)

And I think you missed tempo, what do you think about it ???

Finally, I'm trying my right WB to cut inside and his IF to stay wider and on the left flank my WB to stay wider and his IF to cut inside.

 

[Igneos79]

Hey there, I liked your post and I'm willing to give your Total Football tactic a try - with a lower team. Why did you set a complete-wingback and a wingback?

You can set two complete wingbacks if you want, I just wanted extra caution because of opponents wingers

These are great ideas, the only problems I see are:

width: if set to play narrow the passing focus will be through the middle and it is intended to focus passing mixed... although I think this can be worked out on player instructions;

False 9: is useful when playing alone, it seems better suited to a partnership with a AF or CF. If you read the role description, maybe (it really is a maybe) a target man (support) will work better because he will wait from his team mates and will try one-two's

CM (attack) - this maybe a problem because he moves a lot from his position leaving too much space for the opponent to explore, I would go along with an AP (support or attack, not sure)

No overlaps in tiki-taka ??? It's rather common to see Alba / Alves overlapping (Alves even more). Neymar (previously Villa) and Pedro have different tasks, Neymar would be a IF / attack, Pedro a IF / support or a winger (not a classical one that goes to the line and cross)

And I think you missed tempo, what do you think about it ???

Finally, I'm trying my right WB to cut inside and his IF to stay wider and on the left flank my WB to stay wider and his IF to cut inside.

Width is something I may be mistaken about, it should perhaps be wider, as it is important to find space and stretch the opposition...the narrower you play, the more trouble you have scoring goals, but if playing wider, and making opponents go thorugh middle, your middle players should be better then theirs...

It is important to use a false 9 or treq, or any other role that drops deep from high position...holding up the ball is something that should be avoided...it only takes a moment of slow thinking to lose the ball, get closed down, or their defence getting in shape...

Cm attack is a role that gets into box...he also runs from deep often...in combo with a striker dropping deep, it destabilazes defences...you can use adv play, but he stays in the hole...they are both same creative types, almost identical primary attributes....and if you use an adv play, you shouldnt use a striker with attack duty...

Tiki taka is a standard strategy, meaning the back four stay back...if wanting to use overlaps, you should use attack strategy, and then its no longer tiki taka...

with very fluid philosphy and more expressive creative freedom, your players will dictate tempo by themselves...you can set it to what you wish, but the players will do what they think they should do and ignore your tactical instructions...

 

[miguelalves]

You can set two complete wingbacks if you want, I just wanted extra caution because of opponents wingers

Width is something I may be mistaken about, it should perhaps be wider, as it is important to find space and stretch the opposition...the narrower you play, the more trouble you have scoring goals, but if playing wider, and making opponents go thorugh middle, your middle players should be better then theirs...

It is important to use a false 9 or treq, or any other role that drops deep from high position...holding up the ball is something that should be avoided...it only takes a moment of slow thinking to lose the ball, get closed down, or their defence getting in shape...

Cm attack is a role that gets into box...he also runs from deep often...in combo with a striker dropping deep, it destabilazes defences...you can use adv play, but he stays in the hole...they are both same creative types, almost identical primary attributes....and if you use an adv play, you shouldnt use a striker with attack duty...

Tiki taka is a standard strategy, meaning the back four stay back...if wanting to use overlaps, you should use attack strategy, and then its no longer tiki taka...

with very fluid philosphy and more expressive creative freedom, your players will dictate tempo by themselves...you can set it to what you wish, but the players will do what they think they should do and ignore your tactical instructions...

I agree mostly with you but then there are those few issues but that's that beauty of trading ideas
As for wider, I'm not sure mainly due to two aspects: a) as much wider you play, more space the opponent has to explore and the Barcelona style was all about removing space to the opponents b) lots a roaming doesn't mean the team is set wider, although they can be set a little narrower they should play all over the pitch and focus passing mixed.

As for the Treq or the F9 I agree that one of these would the be the best role, but the Treq will not press the opponent and the F9 is simply horrible at the point of receiving the ball and although having passing options, bang, shoots the ball to another galaxy.

The CM / attack is an understandble logic but the problem is about his defending and fills space, however...

These are the issues I consider arguable, the one I really disagree is with the overlaps because we could often saw both Alves and Adriano (Alba) overlapping their IF when Guardiola changed the 433 to a 343 (Busquets dropping between the CB's as an Half-Back). When playing in a 433 (Alves / Abidal) only the right WB (Alves) would overlap as Abidal was more a FB supporting.
Finally, tiki-taka is not a first touch passing style, it's a no risk passing style (passing to space must be off to all players and with very fluid philosophy without respecting instruction it can be also a problem).

There are also a few problems that arise: I agree with the very fluid philosophy (when having the ball all attack, when not having the ball all defend... depending on the strategy), I would go more with the Control strategy but I guess Standard should do the work. Still, in FM with a very fluid philosophy players should have generic roles and not specialized ones or only one specialized role. If we think in CWB, the Treq / F9 and a DLP it's about 4 specialized players / roles.

 

[miguelalves]

I have been making some experiences and the normal strategic will not work because although is a strategy of less risk (as Barcelona used to play) the defence line even if pushed higher stays too deep, so the opponents have a lot of space to pass the ball in their own midfield.

 

[Mrmuto]

I dont really know if a very fluid philosophy is good...with less good players you cant let them do as they want...with possession soccer it seems that in fm 14 very rigid works better.

 

[spiattalo]

I've been using your Total Football tactics with Sassuolo (predicted 18th) and I'm first in serie A after 7 matches (I've been using another tactic on 1 match though): one goal scored every 27 minutes, one goal against every 39 minutes. 5 wins 1 loss.

I've been making some changes: balanced mentality, no freedom of movement and no more creativity (if those are the english instructions). I gave the F9 the freedom of movement though.

So far it does well against stronger teams, wonders against weakest teams, ok against equal teams.

Oh, and of course it's not fully fluid yet.

Also, my CMs are the top scorers of my team, it really helps having high values in long shots.

 

[Igneos79]

I agree mostly with you but then there are those few issues but that's that beauty of trading ideas
As for wider, I'm not sure mainly due to two aspects: a) as much wider you play, more space the opponent has to explore and the Barcelona style was all about removing space to the opponents b) lots a roaming doesn't mean the team is set wider, although they can be set a little narrower they should play all over the pitch and focus passing mixed.

As for the Treq or the F9 I agree that one of these would the be the best role, but the Treq will not press the opponent and the F9 is simply horrible at the point of receiving the ball and although having passing options, bang, shoots the ball to another galaxy.

The CM / attack is an understandble logic but the problem is about his defending and fills space, however...

These are the issues I consider arguable, the one I really disagree is with the overlaps because we could often saw both Alves and Adriano (Alba) overlapping their IF when Guardiola changed the 433 to a 343 (Busquets dropping between the CB's as an Half-Back). When playing in a 433 (Alves / Abidal) only the right WB (Alves) would overlap as Abidal was more a FB supporting.
Finally, tiki-taka is not a first touch passing style, it's a no risk passing style (passing to space must be off to all players and with very fluid philosophy without respecting instruction it can be also a problem).

There are also a few problems that arise: I agree with the very fluid philosophy (when having the ball all attack, when not having the ball all defend... depending on the strategy), I would go more with the Control strategy but I guess Standard should do the work. Still, in FM with a very fluid philosophy players should have generic roles and not specialized ones or only one specialized role. If we think in CWB, the Treq / F9 and a DLP it's about 4 specialized players / roles.

You should play wider, I am convinced about it now, because when you don't have the ball, you adapt to your opponent, and so, when defending, closing down and marking is a lot more important...

I took Barcelona and their right back was a complete wing back, and left one was a regular wingback...tactic creator usually sets the left one on automatic, and the right one on attack...

I have read about that specialized roles, but I don't find mention of it in any football book or web page. I don't see why specialiesed roles could therefore not be used in ver fluid philosophy. It is important to keep player mentalites close, so maybe that was an issue in older or unpatched FM's, but I doubt that is the case now.

I have been making some experiences and the normal strategic will not work because although is a strategy of less risk (as Barcelona used to play) the defence line even if pushed higher stays too deep, so the opponents have a lot of space to pass the ball in their own midfield.

True, but barca played differently with different coaches. It is possible they play attack now, with capable wingbacks at their disposal. And overlap.

I dont really know if a very fluid philosophy is good...with less good players you cant let them do as they want...with possession soccer it seems that in fm 14 very rigid works better.

Very fluid is great when you have players capable of making magic and allow them to be expressive and roam and so on. Otherwise, it is not recommended, yes.

I've been using your Total Football tactics with Sassuolo (predicted 18th) and I'm first in serie A after 7 matches (I've been using another tactic on 1 match though): one goal scored every 27 minutes, one goal against every 39 minutes. 5 wins 1 loss.

I've been making some changes: balanced mentality, no freedom of movement and no more creativity (if those are the english instructions). I gave the F9 the freedom of movement though.

So far it does well against stronger teams, wonders against weakest teams, ok against equal teams.

Oh, and of course it's not fully fluid yet.

Also, my CMs are the top scorers of my team, it really helps having high values in long shots.

Well then you have made your own tactic and you are doing good. Good to hear it.

 

[spiattalo]

Well then you have made your own tactic and you are doing good. Good to hear it.

I wouldn't say so, I just tweaked yours and I think you deserve the credit.

After 27 games I'm now 2nd behind Juventus: 17 wins, 6 draws, 4 losses; 54 goals scored (best in the league), 21 goals against (second in the league).

Edit: I won the league.

 

[miguelalves]

You should play wider, I am convinced about it now, because when you don't have the ball, you adapt to your opponent, and so, when defending, closing down and marking is a lot more important...

I took Barcelona and their right back was a complete wing back, and left one was a regular wingback...tactic creator usually sets the left one on automatic, and the right one on attack...

I have read about that specialized roles, but I don't find mention of it in any football book or web page. I don't see why specialiesed roles could therefore not be used in ver fluid philosophy. It is important to keep player mentalites close, so maybe that was an issue in older or unpatched FM's, but I doubt that is the case now.



True, but barca played differently with different coaches. It is possible they play attack now, with capable wingbacks at their disposal. And overlap.



Very fluid is great when you have players capable of making magic and allow them to be expressive and roam and so on. Otherwise, it is not recommended, yes.



Well then you have made your own tactic and you are doing good. Good to hear it.

I gave up playing Control Strategy: although my players would be more patient passing the ball, they would go for a long range shot (suddenly I am thinking that Control doesn't fit a low tempo because players already decide to take lower risk decisions and adding lower tempo the opponent has all the time in the world to position themselves, so I guess less risk needs higher tempo and higher risk could match a lower tempo). But I am still giving a try to wider width.

Yes, Barcelona changed a lot (too bad) but I'm referring Barcelona's football with Pep, first an assymetric 433, than a theoric 433 but roling as a 343.

The thing with specialized roles and philosophies is more in a logic of FM rather than real football

 

[Micky979]

Im working on a total football tactic myself and I agree with the CM attack. My MF 3 consist of a Half Back a BBM and an an attacking CM. A false 9 opens up the space for the CM to run into the BBM tends to be a little more restrained with his forward runs. Im having problems with congestion at the minute though. Some of the football is wonderful but a lot of chances go begging because there are too many players forward.

 

[Igneos79]

I gave up playing Control Strategy: although my players would be more patient passing the ball, they would go for a long range shot (suddenly I am thinking that Control doesn't fit a low tempo because players already decide to take lower risk decisions and adding lower tempo the opponent has all the time in the world to position themselves, so I guess less risk needs higher tempo and higher risk could match a lower tempo). But I am still giving a try to wider width.

Yes, Barcelona changed a lot (too bad) but I'm referring Barcelona's football with Pep, first an assymetric 433, than a theoric 433 but roling as a 343.

The thing with specialized roles and philosophies is more in a logic of FM rather than real football

Lol, I tried replicating Pep Bayern tactic....my *** manager kept screaming to change mentalities, but when I clicked on advice, he just opened player panel. (I was playing a 4-1-4-1). So much for unpatched games. FM is worth playing when all the bugs have been fixed, and that's usually when new fm comes out And you're right, you can play overlap with standard strategy. It just bothers me that fullbacks should stay behind with this strategy, and they are overlapping...

Im working on a total football tactic myself and I agree with the CM attack. My MF 3 consist of a Half Back a BBM and an an attacking CM. A false 9 opens up the space for the CM to run into the BBM tends to be a little more restrained with his forward runs. Im having problems with congestion at the minute though. Some of the football is wonderful but a lot of chances go begging because there are too many players forward.

Perhaps use a dlps instead of btb?

 

[Micky979]

Ive thought about it but DLP s dont offer the kind of movement I want. The system is all about movement. Overlaps, underlaps, dropping deep, running from deep. Im going to have problems for a while because Im trying to create such a complex tactic.