Are Barça & Real 'Killing The Game' In Spain? (yes)

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Barcelona and Real Madrid currently receive 41% of Spain's TV revenue. Some suggest the rest find another league to play in, but it might be the big two that are kicked out...

As a way of reforging friendships in the Spanish camp after the latest Barcelona-Real Madrid festival of feuding, Friday night's approach was a novel yet effective tactic that also happened to involve fisticuffs. Rather than two Spanish tribes going to war once again, the Barça and Madrid footballers fought side-by-side in the final seconds of Friday's stormy 3-2 win over Chile in a big old scrap with their South American opposition.

Physical violence probably won't be enough to heal the enormous divisions that currently exist in la Liga, with warring factions being formed who possess very different visions of the state of the Spanish game. 6-0 and 5-0 victories for Real Madrid and Barcelona respectively and the sight of both teams occupying the top places in la Primera after just one round have reignited a heated debate over what needs to be done to make la Liga more competitive.

A camp lead by Sevilla and Villarreal have been increasingly vocal in opposing the current model which affords Barça and Madrid an enormous financial advantage over the other 18 teams when it comes to the share of TV revenue. This rebellion began last season when a group of seven clubs refused to agree to the terms of a new television agreement due to start in 2014 which saw the big two marginally decreasing their share of the money but still getting an increased amount due to the greater size of the pot.

Barcelona and Real Madrid currently share 41% of the €657.5m deal which gives both clubs a staggering €135m each. Third-placed Valencia get €48m whilst ten clubs are awarded sums varying between €13m and €16m. Two of the new teams in la Primera this season, Rayo Vallecano and Granada, will receive ten times less TV income that Madrid and Barcelona.

Sevilla, who get €104m a year less than the top two, are lead by their club president, José María del Nido, a figure whose criticism of the carve-up has been the most strident. Del Nido cranked up the rhetoric this week by declaring that la Liga "wasn't just the biggest pile of **** in Europe but the world," and that "we are not ruling out taking drastic measures and having boycotts."

Del Nido was joined by Villarreal's owner, Fernando Roig, who claimed that the Spanish League and the TV companies were "killing the game." Roig had extra reason to be upset as his club, who receive €107m a year less than Barcelona, had been forced to sell Santi Cazorla to Málaga to balance the books rather than going into administration. This particular process allows a club to carry on functioning and signing players whilst continuing not to pay its debts - a path that Zaragoza have taken, to much opposition from more ethical Primera clubs who feel that - for want of a better expression - the club is completely taking the ****.

The Spanish League (LFP) does have the power to intervene and influence the way the game is run but there is the perception amongst the rebel clubs that the organisation is merely concerned with the interests of Real Madrid and Barcelona with the rest of la Liga largely being ignored. "The league is a big joke because of an LFP that's only looking for profits and income and has no interest in improving the competition," wrote Roberto Gómez in Marca.

The LFP is also facing opposition from the league's unpaid footballers who recently went on strike over the issue citing a lack of financial support from the organisation and Spain's radio stations who are currently locked out of grounds over an argument over rights.

The immediate forecast for la Primera this season is a gloomy one. Barcelona and Real Madrid are stronger than ever with some expecting both sides to remain unbeaten in 36 of their 38 respective league games. Indeed, this process could well be helped by clubs simply writing off their matches against the pair and fielding reserve teams. "There are some teams that are already doing it," said Sevilla manager and former Racing and Zaragoza boss, Marcelino. "When you are playing at home there is the chance to get a positive result, a small chance but it exists. When you are traveling away, especially at Barcelona it's almost impossible."

The remedy proposed by Del Nido and Roig is a TV income model based on England's or the Bundesliga which sees equal payments, but with some added extras to acknowledge the fact that Barça and Real Madrid are huge money spinners for la Liga when it comes to international profile and sponsorship. The approach is a little more constructive than that of Sergio Ramos, who suggested that Sevilla "find another league to play in."

Although this recommendation was largely made in jest because the Real Madrid defender can't stand his former club president, it's an idea that in three to four years time that won't seem so fanciful. But instead of Sevilla having to find some new friends to play with, it could be Barça and Madrid being told to find a different league as the divisions in the Spanish game widen both on and off the pitch.

Tim Stannard

Are Barça & Real 'Killing The Game' In Spain? | Mediawatch, Mailbox, Ref365, John Nicholson, Spanish Thing | Football365
 
Barca would click there UEFA fingers and a Super League would be made STRAIGHT AWAY.

(I'm clearly being sarcastic)
 
Killing the game? ridiculas.... lets give credit where its due please... La liga teams are not significantly worse than EPL ( if worse at all) it just shows how much better the two clubs are simple..

you can go on about all the money hogging jargon you want it may have significance i agree but this has been around for years i find it funny how the witch hunt begins when the rest of the world cant stop the two... just saying

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------

Barcelona and Real Madrid currently receive 41% of Spain's TV revenue. Some suggest the rest find another league to play in, but it might be the big two that are kicked out...

As a way of reforging friendships in the Spanish camp after the latest Barcelona-Real Madrid festival of feuding, Friday night's approach was a novel yet effective tactic that also happened to involve fisticuffs. Rather than two Spanish tribes going to war once again, the Barça and Madrid footballers fought side-by-side in the final seconds of Friday's stormy 3-2 win over Chile in a big old scrap with their South American opposition.

Physical violence probably won't be enough to heal the enormous divisions that currently exist in la Liga, with warring factions being formed who possess very different visions of the state of the Spanish game. 6-0 and 5-0 victories for Real Madrid and Barcelona respectively and the sight of both teams occupying the top places in la Primera after just one round have reignited a heated debate over what needs to be done to make la Liga more competitive.

A camp lead by Sevilla and Villarreal have been increasingly vocal in opposing the current model which affords Barça and Madrid an enormous financial advantage over the other 18 teams when it comes to the share of TV revenue. This rebellion began last season when a group of seven clubs refused to agree to the terms of a new television agreement due to start in 2014 which saw the big two marginally decreasing their share of the money but still getting an increased amount due to the greater size of the pot.

Barcelona and Real Madrid currently share 41% of the €657.5m deal which gives both clubs a staggering €135m each. Third-placed Valencia get €48m whilst ten clubs are awarded sums varying between €13m and €16m. Two of the new teams in la Primera this season, Rayo Vallecano and Granada, will receive ten times less TV income that Madrid and Barcelona.

Sevilla, who get €104m a year less than the top two, are lead by their club president, José María del Nido, a figure whose criticism of the carve-up has been the most strident. Del Nido cranked up the rhetoric this week by declaring that la Liga "wasn't just the biggest pile of **** in Europe but the world," and that "we are not ruling out taking drastic measures and having boycotts."

Del Nido was joined by Villarreal's owner, Fernando Roig, who claimed that the Spanish League and the TV companies were "killing the game." Roig had extra reason to be upset as his club, who receive €107m a year less than Barcelona, had been forced to sell Santi Cazorla to Málaga to balance the books rather than going into administration. This particular process allows a club to carry on functioning and signing players whilst continuing not to pay its debts - a path that Zaragoza have taken, to much opposition from more ethical Primera clubs who feel that - for want of a better expression - the club is completely taking the ****.

The Spanish League (LFP) does have the power to intervene and influence the way the game is run but there is the perception amongst the rebel clubs that the organisation is merely concerned with the interests of Real Madrid and Barcelona with the rest of la Liga largely being ignored. "The league is a big joke because of an LFP that's only looking for profits and income and has no interest in improving the competition," wrote Roberto Gómez in Marca.

The LFP is also facing opposition from the league's unpaid footballers who recently went on strike over the issue citing a lack of financial support from the organisation and Spain's radio stations who are currently locked out of grounds over an argument over rights.

The immediate forecast for la Primera this season is a gloomy one. Barcelona and Real Madrid are stronger than ever with some expecting both sides to remain unbeaten in 36 of their 38 respective league games. Indeed, this process could well be helped by clubs simply writing off their matches against the pair and fielding reserve teams. "There are some teams that are already doing it," said Sevilla manager and former Racing and Zaragoza boss, Marcelino. "When you are playing at home there is the chance to get a positive result, a small chance but it exists. When you are traveling away, especially at Barcelona it's almost impossible."

The remedy proposed by Del Nido and Roig is a TV income model based on England's or the Bundesliga which sees equal payments, but with some added extras to acknowledge the fact that Barça and Real Madrid are huge money spinners for la Liga when it comes to international profile and sponsorship. The approach is a little more constructive than that of Sergio Ramos, who suggested that Sevilla "find another league to play in."

Although this recommendation was largely made in jest because the Real Madrid defender can't stand his former club president, it's an idea that in three to four years time that won't seem so fanciful. But instead of Sevilla having to find some new friends to play with, it could be Barça and Madrid being told to find a different league as the divisions in the Spanish game widen both on and off the pitch.

Tim Stannard

Are Barça & Real 'Killing The Game' In Spain? | Mediawatch, Mailbox, Ref365, John Nicholson, Spanish Thing | Football365

Oh and BTW Ramos is a Huge Seville fan and credits Del Nido with his success as a footballer... just curious about your understanding of his remarks
 
Killing the game? ridiculas.... lets give credit where its due please... La liga teams are not significantly worse than EPL ( if worse at all) it just shows how much better the two clubs are simple..

you can go on about all the money hogging jargon you want it may have significance i agree but this has been around for years i find it funny how the witch hunt begins when the rest of the world cant stop the two... just saying

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------



Oh and BTW Ramos is a Huge Seville fan and credits Del Nido with his success as a footballer... just curious about your understanding of his remarks

How can they catch the two when Barca/Madrid have control over TV revenues, putting them not only as stronger teams but fiscally stronger as well.

La Liga needs De Laurentiis to make a point to the league in style: Aurelio De Laurentiis, Scooter Legend - The Offside
 
How can they catch the two when Barca/Madrid have control over TV revenues, putting them not only as stronger teams but fiscally stronger as well.

La Liga needs De Laurentiis to make a point to the league in style: Aurelio De Laurentiis, Scooter Legend - The Offside

Ok I totally agree.. there must be a change, and change is underway, but my grife is not that, it is the fact that people make noise when they cant compete, its one thing for a Valencia fan or president to bring it up and complain... in fact i expect that.. but when Sky sports have their say and English managers talk to media about it, it drives me mad... they do have the financial power so why do they feel the need to comment

Sky wouldnt care if United was trouncing Barce 3 - 0... thats my point... all these threads are here to hate (or atleast thats how they come across)
 
Well there are good teams in La Liga like Sevilla, Villarreal, Valencia etc, they have all the possibilities to beat em tho small chances in any case... Also the new Money bag team, Malaga, hopefully they will start challenging the Duo soon.
 
Ok I totally agree.. there must be a change, and change is underway, but my grife is not that, it is the fact that people make noise when they cant compete, its one thing for a Valencia fan or president to bring it up and complain... in fact i expect that.. but when Sky sports have their say and English managers talk to media about it, it drives me mad... they do have the financial power so why do they feel the need to comment

Sky wouldnt care if United was trouncing Barce 3 - 0... thats my point... all these threads are here to hate (or atleast thats how they come across)

They're just articles pointing out the lack of competition in the league, and one of the reasons for that is lack of TV revenue for others. They're not criticising the two teams, they're criticising the league and its structure. After all, Barca and Madrid aren't going to turn down the chance to have a ton of money thrown at them.
 
Killing the game? ridiculas.... lets give credit where its due please... La liga teams are not significantly worse than EPL ( if worse at all) it just shows how much better the two clubs are simple..

you can go on about all the money hogging jargon you want it may have significance i agree but this has been around for years i find it funny how the witch hunt begins when the rest of the world cant stop the two... just saying

---------- Post added at 03:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:41 PM ----------



Oh and BTW Ramos is a Huge Seville fan and credits Del Nido with his success as a footballer... just curious about your understanding of his remarks

And, to be honest, you're obviously a Madrid fan. Of course you'll claim anything if it means your club isn't shown up as the corrupt money-grabbing swines they and Barca are.
 
And, to be honest, you're obviously a Madrid fan. Of course you'll claim anything if it means your club isn't shown up as the corrupt money-grabbing swines they and Barca are.

Bit too far to call both clubs 'corrupt money-grabbing swines'. Considering it'd be stupid of either club to turn down a significant amount of money.

It's the LFP's fault. All they care about is profit, and they can maximise that by putting Barcelona & Madrid on telly more than anyone else..
 
Both sides are killing the league, along with the LFP who are doing **** all to rectify it.
 
Ok I totally agree.. there must be a change, and change is underway, but my grife is not that, it is the fact that people make noise when they cant compete, its one thing for a Valencia fan or president to bring it up and complain... in fact i expect that.. but when Sky sports have their say and English managers talk to media about it, it drives me mad... they do have the financial power so why do they feel the need to comment

Sky wouldnt care if United was trouncing Barce 3 - 0... thats my point... all these threads are here to hate (or atleast thats how they come across)

what the **** has this got to do with sky?
 
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As long as Barca and Madrid gets major chunk of TV revenues and gets Nationalized Bank's backing, there is no way any team can challenge them.
 
Bit too far to call both clubs 'corrupt money-grabbing swines'. Considering it'd be stupid of either club to turn down a significant amount of money.

It's the LFP's fault. All they care about is profit, and they can maximise that by putting Barcelona & Madrid on telly more than anyone else..

To be honest, though, doesn't stop the 2 teams hoovering up all the talent in the league.
 
It's not just Real Madrid and Barce.

There's a group of presidents who are happy with the way things are TV share wise simply because they enjoy 'friendly' relationships with each other. Atletico, Real, Barce, Valencia are all in the boat of 'we don't want to change things' whereas Bilbao/Sevilla are in the minority of clubs/chairman calling for change.

With the rise of Malaga and their money I would suspect momentum behind changing the TV money come next summer. Malaga underachieved last season and ended up with around £9m TV money which will barely pay Pellegrini and his coaching staff. If they break the top 4 then along with Sevilla/Bilbao and possibly Villareal/Valencia coming out in support of it there could be momentum.

It's not killing Spanish football in my opinion like I've said before, is it hampering it? Absolutely. But the LFP ruin it themselves with their complacent legislation and complete disregard of social/seating/financial regulations in the Spanish domestic game. The argument people need to understand is if, for example, you handed every team an extra £20m per season in TV money I guarantee minute amounts of that will get re invested in transfers (If any) given that a good portion of clubs coming up/in yoyo/barely surviving are in voluntary bankruptcy. The culture of Presidents pocketing club funds for themselves will just crop up again and without the regulation the extra money will get lost in property companies/whatever else takes the executive's fancy.

If the LFP introduced a compulsory regulation that any TV money must be kept in the club holding company then maybe, just maybe, it could get re invested. But if every team in La Liga got an extra £20m right now we would see little re investment in teams and that's the honest truth. It's in such a financial mess in La Liga that any extra money would get liquidated one way or another, it's a very strange season with ALOT of shady transfer deals (I.E Pacheco to AM then on loan from an on loan team to Rayo. Roberto to Zaragoza (Suspicious). Caicedo to Levante then to Spartak) Even Betis paying Santa Cruz's wage is ringing alarm bells. Also bare in mind that the financial attraction of La Liga is in such a mess and disarray that Valencia and Atletico Madrid have no shirt sponsor still for this season (Shocking).

Bottom line, the extra TV money would get pocketed by a president under current regulations anyway and failing that it would get lost in local banks or to creditors.
 
And, to be honest, you're obviously a Madrid fan. Of course you'll claim anything if it means your club isn't shown up as the corrupt money-grabbing swines they and Barca are.

Listen read my statements... I said I know the financial play should change... but money grabbing swines? hahaha, its easy to be noble when you a no body I guess..

---------- Post added at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

what the **** has this got to do with sky?

Sky, Fox sports, Espn it doesnt matter, I was making a point that its just massive witch hunt... whether its correct (it is partially) is not my argument

---------- Post added at 08:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

Madrid fan or not I am as objective as I can be, I have gone on record saying it is not right... maybe you should look at it objectively instead of seeing the thread and wanting a chance to hate
 
Listen read my statements... I said I know the financial play should change... but money grabbing swines? hahaha, its easy to be noble when you a no body I guess..

---------- Post added at 08:42 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------



Sky, Fox sports, Espn it doesnt matter, I was making a point that its just massive witch hunt... whether its correct (it is partially) is not my argument

---------- Post added at 08:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:42 AM ----------

Madrid fan or not I am as objective as I can be, I have gone on record saying it is not right... maybe you should look at it objectively instead of seeing the thread and wanting a chance to hate

this isnt written by sky or eps etc, so your point is moot

Sigh nothing to with hate, you've decided anyone saying anything must be hating, when its not the case. the point still stands. and it said by the likes of the Villarreal leadership too.THink its prettysad that you've decided to call it a witch hun when people are looking at it objectively. you're actually the one who isnt
 
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Barcelona and Real in La Liga of their own with the rest nowhere

Spain's big two prosper while many of their league rivals do not even have a shirt sponsor

messi-007.jpg

Real Madrid and Barcelona have no rivals in their domestic league. Photograph: Lluis Gene/AFP/Getty Images

The former Real Madrid general manager Jorge Valdano claimed last week that Spain's big two are reaching a crossroads. Soon, he said,Barcelona and Real Madrid will find themselves in a situation in which they have little choice but to seek out new challenges elsewhere, leavingLa Liga behind for a European league.

It is a subject that was in the background when the European Club Association met in Geneva on Tuesday but, as Valdano admitted, while Madrid and Barcelona would welcome such a move, rather more questionable is whether Europe's other big teams will have the same enthusiasm for leaving domestic competition behind.

"With every passing day there is a greater gap between the two greats and the rest of the league in Spain," Valdano said. "You look ahead and the sensation is that this situation will only get worse. There will come a time when this [situation] does not suit the big two either. In the future Madrid and Barcelona will have to look at teams that travel at the same speed as them and that will lead to a European league.

"There are two teams whose market is the whole world and the rest whose market is just their [regional] community. We are in a moment of transformation, which depends on what happens in Spain and in other leagues. The problem is that the Premier League works, Germany works: there is a lot of money there and a lot of passion for [domestic] football. They do not seem especially enthusiastic about leaving their leagues."

The fact that Valdano was asked about the future of La Liga illustrated the extent to which inequality is now definitively, if belatedly, on the agenda in Spain – reflected by an opening weekend which was met with dread as much as delight after Real Madrid defeated Real Zaragoza 6-0 and Barcelona beat Villarreal 5-0. The president of Sevilla, José María Del Nido, described the Spanish league as "rubbish – the greatest pile of junk in Europe".

In answering as he did, Valdano revealed an essential truth. He also revealed a sleight of hand, portraying Spain's big two as innocent victims of a league that simply cannot compete with them, rather than perpetrators of an inequality that threatens to destroy it. He also hinted at the threat that forever hovers in the background: the departure from La Liga of Madrid and Barcelona. It is a threat that, for now at least, suits no one but is used as a weapon on both sides of the divide.

There will come a time when the situation in La Liga does not suit the big two. But if so, Real Madrid have been complicit in that – either blind to the consequences of their actions or all too aware of them and thus deliberately destructive in their approach.
Last season Valencia, in third, finished 21 points behind second-placed Madrid – and that was an improvement on the previous year. Third place was closer to relegation than the title. Over the past two seasons, both Madrid and Barcelona have smashed previous records for points totals. It is not that one of them will win the league so much as the fact that it is hard to see them failing to win many games. A season in which both teams are not beaten once, in which the opposition does not even try, is not so far away.

Underpinning that dominance is the distribution of TV money. Deals are struck individually. Madrid and Barcelona each make €135m (£118m) a year on domestic rights alone. Valencia make €48m, Atlético €46m and Sevilla €31m. Racing Santander make €13m, less than a tenth of the top two.

Madrid and Barcelona have long resisted calls for more equality on the grounds that they generate the vast majority of the money in a country where 60% declare themselves as fans of one of the big two and where the media are divided down the middle, supporting Madrid or Barcelona and largely ignoring the rest. A new proposal is on the table under which a collective deal will be drawn up but the inequality will be enshrined, with Madrid and Barcelona getting 35% of the money to themselves.

One of the reasons that Sevilla and Villarreal have been so outspoken about the new plan is not so much that they see Madrid and Barcelona get further away but that they have been manoeuvred into fifth and sixth place rather than the third and fourth to which they aspired. Other clubs have given in as a way of simply securing survival. There is no sense of collective identity, no "league" to speak off – just a confederation of clubs in which the voice of two is heard louder and more often than anyone else.

What ground Madrid and Barcelona have ceded in terms of the percentage is made up in the prospective total in the new deal (which is yet to be ratified and may still meet resistance). That is a total – and this is the key – that allows Madrid and Barcelona to maintain a huge advantage over the rest of Europe, where their sights are now truly trained. One hundred and thirty-five million euros over the €69m Manchester United get is a huge advantage. It matters little that Valencia, say, can draw closer to you if you can still double their income and at the same time draw further away from teams in Milan and Manchester.

The big two insist that the difference domestically is only fair, reflected in the colossal difference in figures relating to merchandising and marketing. Almost half the Spanish league do not have shirt sponsors this season. Publicly the big two rarely speak out but in private they bring their huge muscle to bear on the rest with a simple, if effective argument: you only fill your grounds and get big TV audiences when you play us. According to El País, Madrid versus Barcelona in the Spanish Super Cup took a 62% audience share in Spain; that same week Villarreal's Champions League qualifier was not among the 20 most watched programmes that day. The dominance in international interest is even greater yet.

So, when Villarreal's president, Fernando Roig, says: "I'd like to see Madrid and Barcelona have a league that consists only of the clásicos – that would be pretty boring," the response from Madrid and Barcelona is:and we'd like to see you try to have a league without us.

When Del Nido described the league as "rubbish", it did not take long for the Madrid defender Sergio Ramos to respond and, in doing so, to say it all. "If Del Nido doesn't like it, he can find himself another league," Ramos said. "We like the league the way it is."
 
Fewer teams have won the EPL since its current incarnation than La Liga in the same amount of time, so I don't think it's as bad as some people make it out to be. It's really just the last few years Barcelona and Real Madrid have been absolutely dominant. I do agree that the TV money should be divided up differently, but as shown by the EPL which has got a better (imho) way of divvying up the money, it doesn't necessarily mean that other teams will immediately start winning.
 
God what arrogance from Real Madrid/Barca. Do they honestly think other clubs, whose leagues are much stronger (ie German Leagues, English leagues), would break away from them, to join a Super League, which would be a continuous two horse race? That's just....incredibly stupid. Let's face it-Barca are just about unstoppable. I sure as **** wouldn't support such a thing. Sounds like they acknowledge there's a bigger picture to it-but can't be bothered to accept it's ramifications.
 
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