Are tactics actually realistic this year?

[RonaldoReal9King]

Hey!

So i remember some people on some previous version telling me about how the tactic system depends on the roles allot. For example they said that you cant have 3 playmakers because there is a system that makes it so that your tactic just will not work and its that simple. For me this was utter garbage because irl if you tell a player to play a certain way he is going to play that way there is no system that will stop you from playing 3 playmakers. They kept sayin you should not have more than 3 attack duty players, no more than 2 support duty players etc etc.
Now im wondering if this is the case in this version as well? Does the game have those systems underneath the surface that will stop you from being creative?


PS: I cant remember what it was exactly but yeah they just kept telling me about all those "rules" or whatever.

 

[WJ]

Hey!

So i remember some people on some previous version telling me about how the tactic system depends on the roles allot. For example they said that you cant have 3 playmakers because there is a system that makes it so that your tactic just will not work and its that simple. For me this was utter garbage because irl if you tell a player to play a certain way he is going to play that way there is no system that will stop you from playing 3 playmakers. They kept sayin you should not have more than 3 attack duty players, no more than 2 support duty players etc etc.
Now im wondering if this is the case in this version as well? Does the game have those systems underneath the surface that will stop you from being creative?


PS: I cant remember what it was exactly but yeah they just kept telling me about all those "rules" or whatever.

There are no 'systems' but your tactics need to make sense. It's as simple as that.

Some guidelines do recommend duties, but it's so that your system has balance.

 

[Blarry]

There are no 'systems' but your tactics need to make sense. It's as simple as that.

Better change that to "need to make sense within the confines of the game". There's still an awful lot going on in world football that can't be replicated the way it should be.

 

[WJ]

Better change that to "need to make sense within the confines of the game". There's still an awful lot going on in world football that can't be replicated the way it should be.

No, I'm quite happy with my post. I've been using real world logic for years and years and it has been very successful.

 

[callamity]

Adding to this. Having 3 playmaker in 1 system will simply share the responsibility between the 3 players. It can if not set up right cause them to gravitate towards the ball however.

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

Hey!

So i remember some people on some previous version telling me about how the tactic system depends on the roles allot. For example they said that you cant have 3 playmakers because there is a system that makes it so that your tactic just will not work and its that simple. For me this was utter garbage because irl if you tell a player to play a certain way he is going to play that way there is no system that will stop you from playing 3 playmakers. They kept sayin you should not have more than 3 attack duty players, no more than 2 support duty players etc etc.
Now im wondering if this is the case in this version as well? Does the game have those systems underneath the surface that will stop you from being creative?


PS: I cant remember what it was exactly but yeah they just kept telling me about all those "rules" or whatever.

Anything anyone ever tells you about Football or Football Manager is simply interpretation.
There is no facts in football tactics. It's about the 11 players and the millions of combinations you can apply to them.
There are guidelines like keep the tactic balanced and share the duties around your team to keep a decent shape that can't be exploited, but there is no "do this and you'll win" and "don't do this or you'll loose."

 

[Bigpapa42]

Balancing duties isn't about "what won't work" so much as it is finding a balance for the tactic. Having multiple players doing the same thing may work in attacking sense, but leave you preciously short of bodies when it comes to defending. You run into problems when you have players trying to do the exact same thing, covering the same area, or when you are leaving significant gaps. This isn't unrealistic - its what happens in real games.

 

[Blarry]

No, I'm quite happy with my post. I've been using real world logic for years and years and it has been very successful.

Depends on what you're trying to implement, really. Getting 1980's Championship football to work isn't that much of a hassle. More advanced stuff however, well ... lemme put it this way: try to ask the Mourinhos, Guardiolas, van Gaals out there to replicate their work using the limited tool box FM offers without getting your cranium split in half with a rake the boys keep in a cupboard for this express purpose. The best reaction you can hope for is being laughed at hysterically.

 

[apvmoreira]

I tend use all roles in support if possible or defend because imo they will run back to make a proper block to defend the box, a little like Mourinho in the 1st reign in Chelsea. But this year i use 2 roles in attack duty and it works, specially for the IFs to no shoot so much from a distance.

At the end, its all about testing your ideas or tweak some that you'll find in the forums.

If they work, great, if not, more work should be done.

 

[WJ]

Depends on what you're trying to implement, really. Getting 1980's Championship football to work isn't that much of a hassle. More advanced stuff however, well ... lemme put it this way: try to ask the Mourinhos, Guardiolas, van Gaals out there to replicate their work using the limited tool box FM offers without getting your cranium split in half with a rake the boys keep in a cupboard for this express purpose. The best reaction you can hope for is being laughed at hysterically.

Well that's quite obvious. Look at how many people struggle currently. Can you imagine how it'll be if it actually became complicated? All 4 phases of play, instead of 2?

You can't micro-manage positioning and movement, but that doesn't mean the tactic isn't realistic.

 

[pl3rious]

my only concern is 2 CB is too leaky, and placing 3 CB is too much harm for attacking phase
hope they fix this soon, releasing tactic for this ME is stupidity
others area is in acceptable game mechanics for me

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

I think the problem i have with the game is that like WJ says, it doesnt have all phases of play. Its abit "simplified" if you will.
Its ironic perhaps that i cant seem to make good tactics if the game is simplified but hear me out. I think that i go to far when creating tactics. Looking at the role descriptions and the player instructions i set up, the tactics should work EXACTLY like i have pictured it but still it doesnt. I dont know maybe i need the very best players for my tactics to work, maybe its to complicated for less than best players. When i look at them play its like they get confused and dont know what to do allot of the time, When my instructions say he should play a simple pass to a creative player he will all of the sudden go for a terrible long ball and lose it. Maybe i need a couple seasons in the same club so that the players listen to me and do what i want?

It needs more roles, there are only a few roles in each position and it limits the creativity of the tactic allot. The wing position is especially limited. I would want them to have more roles but not necessarily have names for them. What i mean is irl when a manager is for example explaining his players roles for whatever reason, most of the time he wouldnt go "i have robben as a raumdeuter, cazorla as a advanced playmaker etc etc. He would just explain it like this "Robbens job is to do this and to do that" etc.
Maybe just have a ton of different setups for you to choose from but not limit them in any way, let you customize that players behaviour freely. The way that some player instructions are secluded for most roles is rubish to me. Allot of the time i want a player to be a certain role but take advantage of a player instruction thats secluded...

 

[WJ]

What i mean is irl when a manager is for example explaining his players roles for whatever reason, most of the time he wouldnt go "i have robben as a raumdeuter, cazorla as a advanced playmaker etc etc. He would just explain it like this "Robbens job is to do this and to do that" etc.

Weak argument. IRL, a manager would use the role description to describe what the player needs to do and then go over the PIs.

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

I think the problem i have with the game is that like WJ says, it doesnt have all phases of play. Its abit "simplified" if you will.
Its ironic perhaps that i cant seem to make good tactics if the game is simplified but hear me out. I think that i go to far when creating tactics. Looking at the role descriptions and the player instructions i set up, the tactics should work EXACTLY like i have pictured it but still it doesnt. I dont know maybe i need the very best players for my tactics to work, maybe its to complicated for less than best players. When i look at them play its like they get confused and dont know what to do allot of the time, When my instructions say he should play a simple pass to a creative player he will all of the sudden go for a terrible long ball and lose it. Maybe i need a couple seasons in the same club so that the players listen to me and do what i want?

It needs more roles, there are only a few roles in each position and it limits the creativity of the tactic allot. The wing position is especially limited. I would want them to have more roles but not necessarily have names for them. What i mean is irl when a manager is for example explaining his players roles for whatever reason, most of the time he wouldnt go "i have robben as a raumdeuter, cazorla as a advanced playmaker etc etc. He would just explain it like this "Robbens job is to do this and to do that" etc.
Maybe just have a ton of different setups for you to choose from but not limit them in any way, let you customize that players behaviour freely. The way that some player instructions are secluded for most roles is rubish to me. Allot of the time i want a player to be a certain role but take advantage of a player instruction thats secluded...

To be honest mate, I don't think you know what you want out of your players, that's why you giving them complicated tactics and they look confused.

What happens on the pitch is 90% the players, 10% the Manager... but if the manager isn't getting his 10% right, the players fall apart. The problem with people on here playing this game is that they believe they have FIFA levels of control. Like they think they can tell every player exactly what to do.

Real world managers know better, instead, they try to set up systems that plays to their squads (NOT THEIR PLAYERS) strengths. The collective strengths your team has to develop a system that suits them, rather than having everyone play short passes despite 3-4 players having "hit long passes" as a PPM. it just confuses your players and they won't play well because you're asking them to not play their game.


Rather than trying to tell everyone what to do, try figure out what their strengths are, put them in a system that enhances those strengths and just let them play football.

 

[r1niceboy]

I think all this will look a lot easier once the full backs playing inside too far bug is fixed. I've seen it mention a few times, so it's out there. Also some of the attacking decision making by players, even without instructions, looks dodgy to say the least. Eg. Clean through on goal, and passes wide to a winger.

 

[Blarry]

What happens on the pitch is 90% the players, 10% the Manager... but if the manager isn't getting his 10% right, the players fall apart. The problem with people on here playing this game is that they believe they have FIFA levels of control. Like they think they can tell every player exactly what to do.

Well, rename the game back to Championship Manager then, because that's where you'd end up with that sort of attitude. This approach has been summed up by Beckenbauer, stating "just go out and play football" ... in 1990. And this is where it belongs, as long as you count out lower league and amateur football.

90% of what happens on the pitch is the players. You're right. But you as a manager decide what those 90% look like. You do have more influence on their technical abilities than you might think, this is why you visit the training grounds between matches. Maybe going too much tracksuit manager here, but actual coaching doesn't end at "my player has Passing 14, so this particular pass has a success chance of 62.4%". In coaching, it's your job to extend the players' repertoire, knowledge and decision making to optimize that pass. With what part of the foot is he supposed to kick the ball? Does he have enough time to move the ball to his strong foot? Play it low or aim at the chest or the head? Play the ball to your mate's feet, or is he about to make a run? What is our current purpose in the game? Is there a better pass recipient around?

I don't think that FM needs much more macro management during matches. But match day is only once or twice a week. And for the rest of the time, there's a concerning lack of micro management options going on. Y'know, how to actually improve a team and its players. Some proper between-the-matches training module would be much appreciated, or SI risks to stay in 1990.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

Well, rename the game back to Championship Manager then, because that's where you'd end up with that sort of attitude. This approach has been summed up by Beckenbauer, stating "just go out and play football" ... in 1990. And this is where it belongs, as long as you count out lower league and amateur football.

90% of what happens on the pitch is the players. You're right. But you as a manager decide what those 90% look like. You do have more influence on their technical abilities than you might think, this is why you visit the training grounds between matches. Maybe going too much tracksuit manager here, but actual coaching doesn't end at "my player has Passing 14, so this particular pass has a success chance of 62.4%". In coaching, it's your job to extend the players' repertoire, knowledge and decision making to optimize that pass. With what part of the foot is he supposed to kick the ball? Does he have enough time to move the ball to his strong foot? Play it low or aim at the chest or the head? Play the ball to your mate's feet, or is he about to make a run? What is our current purpose in the game? Is there a better pass recipient around?

I don't think that FM needs much more macro management during matches. But match day is only once or twice a week. And for the rest of the time, there's a concerning lack of micro management options going on. Y'know, how to actually improve a team and its players. Some proper between-the-matches training module would be much appreciated, or SI risks to stay in 1990.

I completely agree!

Sure you need to have players that can actually play football to do well ofc. But what about those managers that make their players beat way better teams on paper? In FM there is a lack of that i feel, its to much about the player attributes.