Barcelona Tiki Taka

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Igneos79

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Hi lads!

Tiki Taka is a derivate of total football. Total football is an idea in which every player should be able to play anywhere on the pitch. Meaning the philosophy should be set to very fluid to have all your players join both attack and defence. Wikipedia states that it is a directionless extreme, neither attacking nor defensive in nature, meaning you need all your players to be both in front of the ball and behind the ball, depending on the role, so I opted for standard strategy. Being less agressive in nature then more attacking strategies, to win the ball, you must employ energy play. Hassle the opposition, but make few fouls. It requires players physically fit, as there is a lot of running involved. In order to form triangles, 4-5-1 formation is used.

So how does it play? Obviously you want to retain possession. That is best played with short passing, which means we have to play narrow, so that players are close to each other to incorporate effective short passing. Tempo is set as low as possible, to make sure passes are accurate. Playing narrow would allow for effective pressing game, so we push higher up. Not ridicoulously high, as we use a DM and he also needs space. Since that makes very little space to operate, players must use their creativity when entering final third. That is why most roles use creativity, and all roles use decisions as primary attributes. Having a treq or dlf or other creative role as striker means we need to support him with at least two players running from deep often, so that is why we use adv playmakers on the wings, as they do that by default. By doing that, they assume roles of outside strikers, so the formation essentially becomes a 4-3-3 when in possession. Adv Playmakers are on support duty to avoid dribbling and running toward goal and instead play through defence. Width is achieved by overlapping wingbacks.

Edit:

Modern and first concepts of tiki taka:

View attachment 365344View attachment 365343

As you can see, the first concept was with a treq as striker, but as it was fairly unbalanced, with 5 roles on attack duty, modern Barcelona is using a more balanced concept, with a poacher.
 
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You need to recover possession high on the pitch. I'm not sure how do you accomplish this having a much deeper defence line... at the same time, you need to make the team to drop deeper when they can't regain possession and this is very tricky, I still didn't find out how to do it.
Tempo should be low or very low in order to keep passing the ball patiently and not rush things but without the Retain Possession TI, I think this one is passive instruction because players will only waste time taking the ball to the side lines.
 
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Another issue is if you read carefully the strategies descriptions, you will find out that Barcelona would apply a mix of Attacking (getting more players at the front, high tempo at the front and possession at the back), Control (moving the ball patiently) and Normal (mentalities set to neither defensive or attacking, so as you say it's both). The holy graal is to crack all this into a single tactic :S
 
You need to recover possession high on the pitch. I'm not sure how do you accomplish this having a much deeper defence line... at the same time, you need to make the team to drop deeper when they can't regain possession and this is very tricky, I still didn't find out how to do it.
Tempo should be low or very low in order to keep passing the ball patiently and not rush things but without the Retain Possession TI, I think this one is passive instruction because players will only waste time taking the ball to the side lines.

Another issue is if you read carefully the strategies descriptions, you will find out that Barcelona would apply a mix of Attacking (getting more players at the front, high tempo at the front and possession at the back), Control (moving the ball patiently) and Normal (mentalities set to neither defensive or attacking, so as you say it's both). The holy graal is to crack all this into a single tactic :S

It's simple really. They defend deep. They are using a stopper cover combo, not a defend-defend + offside trap, so the defensive line must be deep or the cover defender wouldn't work well. Very deep if you want to limit opposition short passes which is what spain league is about. However, the front players are closing down more often to regain possession quickly away from goal (inside forwards). Dropping deep when regaining posssession is a ppm plus a role. Deep lying playmaker drops deep by default. It is their intent to have a player available to recieve a pass, so almost all players need to come deep to get the ball. The sometimes attacking and change of tempo is done by using "more expressive" shout. The players ignore tactical instructions when they feel they should.
 
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It's simple really. They defend deep. They are using a stopper cover combo, not a defend-defend + offside trap, so the defensive line must be deep or the cover defender wouldn't work well. Very deep if you want to limit opposition short passes which is what spain league is about. However, the front players are closing down more often to regain possession quickly away from goal (inside forwards). Dropping deep when regaining posssession is a ppm plus a role. Deep lying playmaker drops deep by default. It is their intent to have a player available to recieve a pass, so almost all players need to come deep to get the ball. The sometimes attacking and change of tempo is done by using "more expressive" shout. The players ignore tactical instructions when they feel they should.

Indeed, the ppm's are absolutetly fundamental, players should have a double function to come deep to get the ball and get further forward.
The problem in FM is with the defensive process: either you press high to regain possession the closest possible to the opponent goal (a must from Guardiola), but they also drop deep whenever the team is not able to regain possession high. This is a double and simultaneous function that I think is unavailable in FM :-(

Don't you feel the Retain Possession TI contradicts what Barca did (meaning the old Pep's Barca, not this actual one) ?

If you take into account that they always stick to their style of play, then they should be set to more disciplined won't they ?
 
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Indeed, the ppm's are absolutetly fundamental, players should have a double function to come deep to get the ball and get further forward.
The problem in FM is with the defensive process: either you press high to regain possession the closest possible to the opponent goal (a must from Guardiola), but they also drop deep whenever the team is not able to regain possession high. This is a double and simultaneous function that I think is unavailable in FM :-(

Don't you feel the Retain Possession TI contradicts what Barca did (meaning the old Pep's Barca, not this actual one) ?

If you take into account that they always stick to their style of play, then they should be set to more disciplined won't they ?

I don't know much about Barca, and the managers that managed them, I admit. But I do know their game was always about possession. Some managers played things wide, some played high tempo, some played more attacking, some this, some that. They should be more disciplined if you want team play, but more expressive will allow for what you mentioned earlier, more creative players using their brains, and going further up, or change tempo. They have very creative players, so both options are viable, as it doesn't contradict with stick to position shout. It's really up to you and the players at your disposal.
 
Well, I'm not trying to contradict your ideas only trying to produce some brainstorming to get us where we want :D I guess the reference is Pep's Barca, right ? I've tried very different ideas, including the Normal Strategy because it makes sense being the one that it's both attacking and defensive. Your Much Higher Tempo makes sense with this strategy because it has a lot of time wasting by default (passing to the feet with no risk is something completly different of wasting time) sp it generates some kind of balance. One thing I didn't try and it can be a good idea is stretching players, using a (zonal) mark tighter PI with the more advanced players at the same time with your deep defence line.
Right now I'm with a mix of Pep's Barcelona and the current Bayern (4231), so it's some kind of Barcelona of Munich :-)
 
Well, I'm not trying to contradict your ideas only trying to produce some brainstorming to get us where we want :D I guess the reference is Pep's Barca, right ? I've tried very different ideas, including the Normal Strategy because it makes sense being the one that it's both attacking and defensive. Your Much Higher Tempo makes sense with this strategy because it has a lot of time wasting by default (passing to the feet with no risk is something completly different of wasting time) sp it generates some kind of balance. One thing I didn't try and it can be a good idea is stretching players, using a (zonal) mark tighter PI with the more advanced players at the same time with your deep defence line.
Right now I'm with a mix of Pep's Barcelona and the current Bayern (4231), so it's some kind of Barcelona of Munich :-)

yes, but time waisting has nothing to do with tempo. It's a different setting I beleive? Anyway, I made a small update to original tactic. Turns out you were right about not retaining possession...
 
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The trick that I think it's impossible to achieve in FM is regarding the defensive process and not the ofensive, i.e., we have to set our team able both to press very high and when not regaining possession, the team has to drop deep. This simply can't be done in FM. And there's the problem that hassle opponents in this FM simply sucks.
 
The trick that I think it's impossible to achieve in FM is regarding the defensive process and not the ofensive, i.e., we have to set our team able both to press very high and when not regaining possession, the team has to drop deep. This simply can't be done in FM. And there's the problem that hassle opponents in this FM simply sucks.

Why not stand off then, and keep the more closing down to forward players?
 
Here is a picture of your football understanding:














































get it? there is none
 
you dont give instructions do the players? i am triyng to tweak my current bar?a possession tactics and it has been good. possession 66%, 68%, sometimes 70% with 3 or 4 goals per game
 
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