difference in home/away form

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churros

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Anyone feel it's WAY too much? Like even on a comical level. Even other teams I see top teams (MU, MC) losing to midtable and even bottom table teams. I check the match stats and it's always the same story. Very big drop in shot count, pass completion %, possession etc. than compared to their home games.

Of course the same happens to me. I beat other top teams 90% of the time, and quite frequently by a good margin of 3+ goals, then I can't beat midtables like Newcastle, West Ham, etc. Pass completion drops from 90% to 85% on average (that 5% is a big difference), shot count from >20(>10 on target) to <15(<10 on target), possession from 60-65% to 50-60%.

Since pitch sizes are standardised that can't be the issue, I'm just guessing SI really overdid the way players behave home and away, very similar to going from Superb to Abysmal morale.

Also, it can't be the tactics. Not only have I watched the matches and notice basically the same tactics and formation home/away by the oppositions, but even other matches that I'm completely not involved in, surely their managers wouldn't be that stupidly erratic to switch to a dumb-*** tactic when playing in away matches.

Just hoping I'm not alone here and that SI actually decide to fix this if they even consider it an issue. You don't see MU and MC losing to midtable teams away, even half as frequently as they do in FM13 as far as I've observed.

Edit: I know this may look like it belongs in the tactics section but I'm only speculating it's an ME thing where the game must fluctuate the players AI behaviour more than natural.
 
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I've picked up one less point away from home. My side really isn't affected by playing away from home.

They dont play the same tactic, as was pointed out to you on the SI thread, when you started having a go at people, lining up with the same formation isnt at all the same as lining up with the same tactic/approach.

I just played Southampton away from home, i recently played them at home in the cup. They played the same 4-2-3-1. But their actual approach was quite different. Away from home they sat deep, never played from the back, and launched kicks into the channels. At home they were playing out the back, pushed much further up the pitch and generally played a more combative style. Rather than my usual short passing game, I simply switched my centre forwards role from support to attack, and played a more direct game, and won pretty comfortably.
 
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Similer to Mike, my team in the 2nd season was unbeaten away, lost once at home (Only league loss of the season!). Lost one home and away 3rd season, so it's definitely even!

Do you play different tactics when you are away? If so the tactic is probably just not good enough. If you don't, maybe your tactic/players are just weak to the controlling style of play clubs generally play when they're at home, as opposed to the counter-attacking they generally play when they are at your ground :)
 
Yeah, I've tried a million different tactics. I feel I spend WAY too much time on it trying to figure out what's wrong. Defensive line, attacking directness, attacking direction, player roles, player mentality, etc etc I've tried it all under all circumstances.

I've tried utterly stupid tactics in home matches against good clubs and just beat the **** out of them. Because my players are generally league-leading or world-class. They're extremely sharp and clinical on and off the ball, attacking and defending. That's by their default.

What's clear is the decision making, or rather the utter idiocy among my players in away games. Just a few incidents to name as good examples:

1. World-class CBs stop marking opponents forwards. Loose strikers prowling, easy through ball, easy goal. Yay. (Tweaked closing down, marking and tight marking instructions to the same results)

2. Fullbacks (17-19 pace, acc, marking, position) getting destroyed by mediocre wingers (less than 15 pace, acc and dribbling). On home games its completely opposite they own the wingers, tackling, intercepting, etc.

3. Midfielders (17-19 passing, decision, creativity) passing to marked teammates when he himself has space to dribble first, or when other teammates available. Amazing. Supposedly the most intelligent players on the pitch. Probably responsible for possession going from 65%'ish at home to 50%'ish away. Tweaked passing style, tempo, mentality, no avail.

4. Inside forwards/wingers (17-19 acc, pace, dribbling) keep running straight into an opponent. Really? They destroy 3-4 defenders at home and then get owned by 1 defender away. Lol.

5. Striker going from world class to no class. I have 2 of the world's best strikers. 18-20 OTB, dribbling, finishing, anticipation. 15-17 pace, acceleration. Ok I admit their off-the-ball movement look just as good home and away, and their dribbling too. Pass mediocre CBs quite well. Then their finishing goes from clinical to wasteful. How else can I describe this? They're amazing with their shooting at home/neutral ground, and keep "just" missing the target on away as if to mock the player manager.

Anyway these are just 5 of the most noticeable examples, regardless of varying tactical instruction.

Also, I notice on away matches how many untidy goals there are. The kind that takes like 10 deflections around the box and then falls nicely to an opponent's feet with a clear shot on goal. That accounts for half of all away goals scored against me. The other half of course are my "World-Class Centerbacks" rushing into the player on the ball apparently forgetting that he actually has teammates to pass to.

It may be worth noting that I get very few fans on away games. It's usually just the small "camp" at the corner in one section or something. I'm speculating there's a hidden variable that affects your players psychological states on matchday that has to do with fan support, or rather away fans jeering. Similar to morale, and even though it doesn't show on the "Body Language" status on matchday as nervous or anxious, they really do seem it-- unable to cope with the hostile away environment.

So it's possible you guys are performing alright because you have bigger clubs with a stronger fanbase that actually show up on away matches?

I just wish the video uploading isn't so much of a hassle and I'll show you guys just how plain and obvious it is. I've uploaded a bunch of to the SI official forum and they just tell me off that it's just some ME issue that'll probably be fixed. Yeah good to know.
 
soo are you making a post asking for help then not listening to anyone who has a suggestion?

also "So it's possible you guys are performing alright because you have bigger clubs with a stronger fanbase that actually show up on away matches?" but you claim to have the best players on the game by the sounds of it how can you say this? lol

also from what you said this does sound like a tactical blunder from you:)

Post the tactics your using both home and away and maybe we (FM community) can help:)
 
Actually I quite like the fact that all the clubs seem to struggle at home sometimes and away, I used to hate FM when I'd have a good season but the club above me just didn't ever lose, that's unrealistic and it's one of the many changes for better in the new FM!:)
 
Why is it a tactical blunder? You don't even know what tactics I use, and I've used it all. I've tried suggestions from these very forums but the results don't change and you're accusing me of not listening? I've tried several "successful" tactics this forum and SI's official forum's posters have recommended and are generally popularly acclaimed by the rest of the communities. That hasn't helped either.

I think it's you who's not listening to those 5 examples I listed and how I've properly described the problem so maybe you should appreciate what the topic is actually about.

Also yes I have the best players in the game but I don't know how large my fanbase is. Is this wrong? I can't tell what my fanbase is even though my club is Worldwide reputation. BUT my stadium is only at 28k seats (very small for Premier League), and I don't think I get anything from merchandise sales which is the only point of reference I know to tell how famous and popular my club is.

As far as I know in the game it's not contradictory to have the best players in world, be reputed worldwide, but not have a large fanbase. So on that topic it's an uncertainty unless someone can confirm something.

@marksandygill that's good and all but it's still a video game at the end of the day. We already have the huge unfair advantage of scouting and bringing up the best players and shaping their attributes into the kind of players that will destroy other teams.

Still IRL you don't see MU or MC struggling against Everton/Wigan on Away frequently. Same goes for other leagues. You don't see Patrice Evra turning into Andre Santos.
 
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churros said:
Why is it a tactical blunder? You don't even know what tactics I use, and I've used it all. I've tried suggestions from these very forums but the results don't change and you're accusing me of not listening? I've tried several "successful" tactics this forum and SI's official forum's posters have recommended and are generally popularly acclaimed by the rest of the communities. That hasn't helped either.

I think it's you who's not listening to those 5 examples I listed and how I've properly described the problem so maybe you should appreciate what the topic is actually about.

Also yes I have the best players in the game but I don't know how large my fanbase is. Is this wrong? I can't tell what my fanbase is even though my club is Worldwide reputation. BUT my stadium is only at 28k seats (very small for Premier League), and I don't think I get anything from merchandise sales which is the only point of reference I know to tell how famous and popular my club is.

As far as I know in the game it's not contradictory to have the best players in world, be reputed worldwide, but not have a large fanbase. So on that topic it's an uncertainty unless someone can confirm something.

@marksandygill that's good and all but it's still a video game at the end of the day. We already have the huge unfair advantage of scouting and bringing up the best players and shaping their attributes into the kind of players that will destroy other teams.

Still IRL you don't see MU or MC struggling against Everton/Wigan on Away frequently. Same goes for other leagues. You don't see Patrice Evra turning into Andre Santos.
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The reason why AI-controlled top teams such as Man U, City, Chelsea struggles more away from home in FM than irl is rather simple and are down to 2 reasons.

- they don't have their real managers( like Fergusson would ever allow his players becoming complacent and when this happens in FM, you get punished away to a team being fired up)

- Using the width and flanks are slightly overpowered. This basiclly means that as teams playing at home are more likely to use more width and teams playing away more likely to play more narrow, it has a double effect.

Combining these 2 and you get the results iu are seeing.

How do I play away then? Well, I make sure to use marking and OIs against wide players an whilst playing a more compact central midfield (formation) and through the middle, I still use width and balls are played into channels down the flanks onto my attacking wingers.
 
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Hey I'm sorry I've no idea where they are this season lol, since I'm no magpie.

@TheBetterHalf, what are "OIs"? I'm going to try and fully familiarise my squad with a narrower width and see if there's anything that changes. Point is, I normally still tend to win away games against but I don't dominate the way I do at home. And I'm sure my squad are capable of dominating on any ground considering their quality.

It's the ridiculous little decisions (like in those 5 examples I name) that puzzles me and almost confirms my suspicions that FM13 really ***** up your players' morale and anything that has to do with their mental abilities on the pitch. Fullbacks not marking, midfielders misplacing passes so frequently.... that I have NEVER come close to finding an explanation to apart from my theory.

I'm just trying to adapt to this exaggerated effect by adopting various unorthodox tactics. Currently, your suggestion's being tested.

I want domination like 20+ shots, 10+ on target, 55+% possession kind of domination. Heck that's not even close to my home stats at 65% possession and 25+ shots on average.
 
churros said:
Hey I'm sorry I've no idea where they are this season lol, since I'm no magpie.

@TheBetterHalf, what are "OIs"? I'm going to try and fully familiarise my squad with a narrower width and see if there's anything that changes. Point is, I normally still tend to win away games against but I don't dominate the way I do at home. And I'm sure my squad are capable of dominating on any ground considering their quality.

It's the ridiculous little decisions (like in those 5 examples I name) that puzzles me and almost confirms my suspicions that FM13 really ***** up your players' morale and anything that has to do with their mental abilities on the pitch. Fullbacks not marking, midfielders misplacing passes so frequently.... that I have NEVER come close to finding an explanation to apart from my theory.

I'm just trying to adapt to this exaggerated effect by adopting various unorthodox tactics. Currently, your suggestion's being tested.

I want domination like 20+ shots, 10+ on target, 55+% possession kind of domination. Heck that's not even close to my home stats at 65% possession and 25+ shots on average.
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Well, do you play an aggressive pressing game, patient and slow possession based approach ? Firstly, thnk about the reason why you get these stats at home as it's always a combination of how you play and the way that your opposition plays. If they sit back without pressing and when they get the ball, they always try to make an attack in haste that are often wasteful, then you will dominate the game. Now, what would happen if they decided to play more aggressive and instead of direct on th counter, they would use the shouts play out of defense, retain possession, play wider, use overlaps. Here, they would not only try to keep the ball and drag you on to them but also move upfield as a unit and keep the ball in the team. Whilst you might still win, perhaps even bigger, you would not dominate the game stat wise in the way you now do at home.
 
churros said:
@TheBetterHalf, what are "OIs"?
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Opposition Instructions, it's a screen that comes up before every match, just before the team talk. It sets stuff like player marking, should the player be given space, etc. You can set you AssMan to set them in staff responsibilities, but if you do that, make sure he has good tactical knowledge :D
 
Oh lol opp instructions. That's old news. Been doing it to the point where I have to do it manually. And I've tested that every way possible as well not just with an asst mger but my 19 def and tactical knowledge and tactical coaching coach.

Think it works? Set marking instructions to always tightly mark their striker and guess what. For 6 seconds he was roaming outside the box while 3 of my back 4 crowd around one of their wingers only for him to somehow get the ball through to the free ST. Just an absolute classic that happens 90% of the time against a strong opposition like MU in away games.

Sure it probably does work. But as always in away games my players transcend most of my tactical instructions :D
 
In my 3 seasons with Liverpool I have comfortably outperformed my home form with my away form.
 
Once again, like the SI thread, you have half a dozen people offer you advice, and point out that there is no crazy gap or mechanism.

If you're not going to listen to people who are getting success, (including thebetterhalf, a tactician so adept and respected even wwfan and SI appreciate her work), then there is not much point in keeping this thread open. You ask for help but then dont want to listen. When you are ready to, by all means PM me and I will re open it.
 
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