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alfiemartin778
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Hi, I have used the tactic and have a few questions regarding certain player positions, firstly why NFB for Luke Shaw i would've thought more of a standard FB would be better considering he's very good technically also I defo would've thought Martinez would have been a BPD. Finally do you find the much higher defensive line is leaking a lot of counter attacks. Appreciate a response.
I think it's impossible to make it a realistic EtH replication current match engine, as they in the first build up phase, United form a 3-2-5, in second build up phase, they're in a 3-1-6, and defensively they form a 4-4-2. Luke Shaw as NFB is wrong, yes, but definitely the best way to make it a back 3. Full back on defend also works, but I usually try to put full back on support with "hold position" in order to not significantly reduce what he does when he has the ball.
Dalot's position, where he joins Casemiro as midfield pivot, can not be replicated with just putting him as an Inverted Wing Back since he's always wide until the 2nd build up phase, whereas IRL, he's there in 1st build up phase. And offensively, Dalot makes inverted runs as well with Antony staying wide. But in ME here, Mezzala, IWB and IW(with stay wide) occasionally take up very similar positions which again, messes it up in the match engine as opposed to how it's played IRL.
I agree that Lisandro Martinez should be playing as a ball playing defender (possibly on stopper duty), his height really makes him perform poorly in this game so I assume you're trying to limit those deficiencies as much as possible.
Last thing I'd change is LW should be IF, whereas RW should be IW, because of how Rashford and Antony go.
A very good attempt at replication however. I'm sure if match engine allowed it, it'd have looked very different. Especially with IWB's positioning in 1st and 2nd phase of build up, and how if you try to make a back 3 with LB being defensive, they don't shuffle a little more to the right so they end up looking like this
rather than like this
Dalot's position, where he joins Casemiro as midfield pivot, can not be replicated with just putting him as an Inverted Wing Back since he's always wide until the 2nd build up phase, whereas IRL, he's there in 1st build up phase. And offensively, Dalot makes inverted runs as well with Antony staying wide. But in ME here, Mezzala, IWB and IW(with stay wide) occasionally take up very similar positions which again, messes it up in the match engine as opposed to how it's played IRL.
I agree that Lisandro Martinez should be playing as a ball playing defender (possibly on stopper duty), his height really makes him perform poorly in this game so I assume you're trying to limit those deficiencies as much as possible.
Last thing I'd change is LW should be IF, whereas RW should be IW, because of how Rashford and Antony go.
A very good attempt at replication however. I'm sure if match engine allowed it, it'd have looked very different. Especially with IWB's positioning in 1st and 2nd phase of build up, and how if you try to make a back 3 with LB being defensive, they don't shuffle a little more to the right so they end up looking like this
alfiemartin778
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you said you’d change LW to IF and RW to IW, is there any reason you didn’t do that in your tactic you’ve posted? I’ll give Luke shaw the support role with hold position see how he does
Yeah, when I made that tactic which was way back in October, I wasn't trying to replicate Erik ten Hag's tactic, but just to try and make a consistent tactic on the match engine at the time which was very hard to do back then. For some reason, Rashford performed really well in an IW role at the time, and we both know he's naturally an IF with his role and the way he plays IRL, but if I were to make an Erik ten Hag tactic replication, he'd definitely be an IF. As a matter of fact, this is how I'd make a EtH replica - or as close to it as match engine allows. I'd be shuttling RB into Segundo Volante on support for when we have the ball, but it defensively, it's too different to what it looks IRL.
2 points of personal debate would also be Antony's role and Mount's role. While Mount's role should be more of a box-to-box role, he drops deeper than I'd want him to in that role, which is why pass map would look a bit worse. And Antony IRL is always hugging the touchline, and cutting in when the opportunity arises. As an IW in the game, he does that far too much. As a winger, he still does it because he has the "Cuts Inside From Right Wing" player trait, but to a far lower degree. Dalot is underlapping him, but because of match engine limitations, he still comes from an initially wide position, which causes RW (Sancho in this instance) and him to have the same position on the pass map. If match engine wasn't as limited in that regard, he'd be more narrow than RW.
But, as you can see in game, on the screenshot below, this is the perfect replicated shape of EtH's tactic (IMO). In this very instance, Varane passes the ball to Sancho, Bruno drops deep to receive from Sancho and plays Dalot through who is making an inverted run, who then crosses it low to the far post for Rashford to finish.
But again, I have to reiterate you've done great job with the replication, and have come closer to how Erik's team sets up than most people I've seen online, as you're the only one to notice the 3-1-6 shape. I've meant no critique to you whatsoever. Unfortunately match engine doesn't always guarantee exact replication and good results.
Kinda similar to how match engine doesn't allow Guardiola's tactic replication with the 3-2-5 shape. As you know, Stones only starts as a CB, but ends up playing as a midfielder, and City defends in 4-4-2. No way to replicate that. It's a 4-3-3 which turns into 3-2-5 and is a 4-4-2 while defending. Absolutely impossible to replicate in match engine entirely. I'm really hoping for this to be addressed to some degree in FM24, but I don't think that game will be introducing a lot of new things. I think most of their focus will be directed towards FM25 with unity engine.
If you wish to speak more, you can DM me and I'll share my discord with you and we can brainstorm a bit.
2 points of personal debate would also be Antony's role and Mount's role. While Mount's role should be more of a box-to-box role, he drops deeper than I'd want him to in that role, which is why pass map would look a bit worse. And Antony IRL is always hugging the touchline, and cutting in when the opportunity arises. As an IW in the game, he does that far too much. As a winger, he still does it because he has the "Cuts Inside From Right Wing" player trait, but to a far lower degree. Dalot is underlapping him, but because of match engine limitations, he still comes from an initially wide position, which causes RW (Sancho in this instance) and him to have the same position on the pass map. If match engine wasn't as limited in that regard, he'd be more narrow than RW.
But, as you can see in game, on the screenshot below, this is the perfect replicated shape of EtH's tactic (IMO). In this very instance, Varane passes the ball to Sancho, Bruno drops deep to receive from Sancho and plays Dalot through who is making an inverted run, who then crosses it low to the far post for Rashford to finish.
But again, I have to reiterate you've done great job with the replication, and have come closer to how Erik's team sets up than most people I've seen online, as you're the only one to notice the 3-1-6 shape. I've meant no critique to you whatsoever. Unfortunately match engine doesn't always guarantee exact replication and good results.
Kinda similar to how match engine doesn't allow Guardiola's tactic replication with the 3-2-5 shape. As you know, Stones only starts as a CB, but ends up playing as a midfielder, and City defends in 4-4-2. No way to replicate that. It's a 4-3-3 which turns into 3-2-5 and is a 4-4-2 while defending. Absolutely impossible to replicate in match engine entirely. I'm really hoping for this to be addressed to some degree in FM24, but I don't think that game will be introducing a lot of new things. I think most of their focus will be directed towards FM25 with unity engine.
If you wish to speak more, you can DM me and I'll share my discord with you and we can brainstorm a bit.
Oh wait, I just realized you might've mistaken me for the poster of the tactic, as have I mistaken you for the poster as well.
alfiemartin778
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Have you got any suggestions as to a different role to the bbm, I’ve changed shaw from NFB to FB on defend
alfiemartin778
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Your tactic with shaw as wcb have you tested it to see if it actually works in game? I’d most likely change Antony back to IW and dalot CWB
alfiemartin778
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Sorry also does 2 mezzala work in the same system?
alfiemartin778
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What’s your twitter easier to communicate through that
Yeah, I tested the tactic just by simulating through to the end of the season and these are the results, while having 65% possession (2nd team had 58%, Arsenal):
And I do not recommend, if you wish to make this a realistic replication of Erik's tactics, a switch from Winger to Inverted Winger and right back to be a CWB instead of IWB. Just look at the goal we scored (in a very poor display) against Wolves. If you are to, however, make the switch for the right winger to IW, you should put "stay wide" in his player instructions. This tactic would probably score more goals if the striker was Advanced Forward though.
I will attach 2 tactics which are meant to replicate how United plays, v2 is more FM results based, v3 is more recreation based. You can try them out yourself.
And yeah, my twitter is https://twitter.com/nsap70
And I do not recommend, if you wish to make this a realistic replication of Erik's tactics, a switch from Winger to Inverted Winger and right back to be a CWB instead of IWB. Just look at the goal we scored (in a very poor display) against Wolves. If you are to, however, make the switch for the right winger to IW, you should put "stay wide" in his player instructions. This tactic would probably score more goals if the striker was Advanced Forward though.
I will attach 2 tactics which are meant to replicate how United plays, v2 is more FM results based, v3 is more recreation based. You can try them out yourself.
And yeah, my twitter is https://twitter.com/nsap70
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alfiemartin778
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Send a dm mate as won’t let me dm u