Failing to make playoffs with Middlesbrough

[GL32]

At the moment, I'm in 10th in the Championship with Middlesbrough. I've recently joined, but my tactics are already familiar with them. I'm using the tactic I got Oldham promoted with and a variant on that at the moment, so it's proven to work, but the players just don't seem to want to defend, or score goals at Middlesbrough.

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My first tactic goes like this. My goalkeeper, David Stockdale, is in because I also have Scott Carson who is arguably the worst goalkeeper I've ever used on FM. He drops everything and has dropped way too many clangers. How he has a 6.78 average rating I don't know.
Then there's the defenders, set to be, well, defenders, stay back, and the fullbacks should contribute to the play dependent on how my mentality changes throughout the match.
I have a ball winning midfielder to stay back and win the ball to start counter attacks where needed, with a box to box midfielder to be my enigma and ensure the team always has an easy pass to make.
Then there's the four attacking players. I don't expect Musonda to constantly attack, I want him to make the chances to start attacks and the wingers should be pushing up. Ashley Barnes is awful, only has 5 goals which is unacceptable for a striker that cost £3.1m (not my signing) and has played (I think) every game so far.
Instructions are as follows:
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They're pretty basic really. Keep it calm, but at a high tempo to pass around the opposition, don't do anything stupid and get the ball into the box to shoot. However, we never really see goals, I'm not sure if my strikers are just that bad or there's something else I need to do to get the goal count up.

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Then there's this tactic. It's not a 4-3-3 as such, it's almost identical (and based off) the Christmas Tree O'Doom. Now it works for Second Yellow Card, but not for me. This may be due to a few changes I've made to make it a bit more attacking.
First, goalkeeper being goalkeeper. That's fine, I wish he'd stop stupid goals from being scored but this is FM, where every goal you concede is an absolute howler.
Defenders the same as last time.
Then there's a ball winning midfielder again, he does the same job as before. Get attacks going, get the ball to someone else who can actually attack.
Two wingers set to support. Now I know for a fact that these two are technically brilliant, and should be taking on the fullbacks to get crosses in. One problem is that I've got my tactic set to be narrower, and maybe that should be taken off to let Ibe, Sims, and Rollins off their leashes and cause mayhem.
The attacking midfielders, who maybe should be swapped around, are there to get the ball to the forward or use the shadow striker to get goals, but either way as long as the ball's in the back of the net I'm not really bothered. This is a promotion push, and we need to score goals to win.
And then there's Barnes again. He's hopeless, and really needs to get scoring before I bin him off. He's had warnings, yet he's still an embarrassment and I have no idea why the Boro board have let their previous manager make him the only forward at the club. (This will be fixed in due course)
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The instructions are similar to earlier, so I trust I don't have to go into them that much. Maybe I shouldn't play narrower? Or maybe it's just my players aren't suited to the style? I'm not sure, so if somebody can help me I'd really appreciate it. I have to get to the playoffs!

 

[WJ]

At the moment, I'm in 10th in the Championship with Middlesbrough. I've recently joined, but my tactics are already familiar with them. I'm using the tactic I got Oldham promoted with and a variant on that at the moment, so it's proven to work, but the players just don't seem to want to defend, or score goals at Middlesbrough.

These are a lot of words but they say nothing. WHY don't they defend? WHY do you not score goals?

Then there's the defenders, set to be, well, defenders, stay back, and the fullbacks should contribute to the play dependent on how my mentality changes throughout the match.

You have only 2 defenders who will be defending. The fullbacks currently are on a support duty. There are bigger issues - What happens when your team has the ball in the opposition's third of the pitch? What happens if there's a counter?

I have a ball winning midfielder to stay back and win the ball to start counter attacks where needed,

If you have watched ANY part of ANY match, you'd see that this does not happen. Ball-winning midfielders' only duty is to win the ball. They don't sit back. Ever.

with a box to box midfielder to be my enigma and ensure the team always has an easy pass to make.

This also won't really happen. He won't ALWAYS be an easy passing option. He's a BOX to BOX midfielder. That means he'll start deep, but end up with late runs into the box. He won't always be available for an easy pass. He'll constantly be around your AP/A the way I see it, so you'd have 3 very attacking players and 2 right on their heels, with a big gap behind them.

Then there's the four attacking players. I don't expect Musonda to constantly attack, I want him to make the chances to start attacks and the wingers should be pushing up. Ashley Barnes is awful, only has 5 goals which is unacceptable for a striker that cost £3.1m (not my signing) and has played (I think) every game so far.

Here's a question - Ashley Barnes is awful, but how is he going to score when he's alone in the box and you're doing your best to slow play down so that there are at least 3-4 defenders all over him?

Instructions are as follows:
View attachment 916214
They're pretty basic really. Keep it calm, but at a high tempo to pass around the opposition, don't do anything stupid and get the ball into the box to shoot. However, we never really see goals, I'm not sure if my strikers are just that bad or there's something else I need to do to get the goal count up.

It's not basic. It's poor. You're slowing the game down when you have an aggressive setup. What you'll end up with, is a crowded last third and only Barnes being a constant goal threat, but he'll be surrounded by defenders.

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I'm not even going to go into detail about the second tactic, as I don't know what a Christmas Tree O'Doom is, but it's horrific. The midfield is a shambles.

 

[Donnelly1]

One thing I notice is that both of your tactics rely on the BWM to provide the shield for your defenders. You've even mention you want your BWM to stay back and win the ball. The problem is that BWMs don't stay back or hold position, they will charge and close down all over the place trying to win the ball back. This will leaves huge holes in your midfield. My rule of thumb is that a BWM should always be alongside another midfielder who will actually sit back and hold position.

In your second tactic you've shown you playing a lone striker as a poacher with a SS behind. To get the bes out of a SS the striker in front of him must vacate the space for him to charge into. I would usually pair a SS with a DLF. Also that formation looks like it will lose the midfield battle every game with just a BWM in there, for reasons I previously mentioned.

Not sure about your lack of goals but maybe Barnes is just useless! lol

 

[GL32]

These are a lot of words but they say nothing. WHY don't they defend? WHY do you not score goals?

As you saw, my tactic was flawed and that is one of the questions that I needed someone with a better clue to ask my what to do.

You have only 2 defenders who will be defending. The fullbacks currently are on a support duty. There are bigger issues - What happens when your team has the ball in the opposition's third of the pitch? What happens if there's a counter?

Right then, so I'll set my fullbacks to defend. Neither of them are competent going forward, but even so I'd expect them to maybe make the occasional run forward, to support the team. FM literally says that itself.

If you have watched ANY part of ANY match, you'd see that this does not happen. Ball-winning midfielders' only duty is to win the ball. They don't sit back. Ever.

I've seen god knows how many matches live, but I've never really seen a ball winning midfielder used. With us, it's always the use of a deep lying playmaker, defensive mid (out and out) or a half back. It makes sense though. I'll swap Jay Spearing to be a CM(D) for now and see how that turns out.

This also won't really happen. He won't ALWAYS be an easy passing option. He's a BOX to BOX midfielder. That means he'll start deep, but end up with late runs into the box. He won't always be available for an easy pass. He'll constantly be around your AP/A the way I see it, so you'd have 3 very attacking players and 2 right on their heels, with a big gap behind them.

Fair enough. I'm not 100% sure where to go with this, so I'll change this role to a more deep-lying one and see how it goes. I can experiment a bit if needs be.

Here's a question - Ashley Barnes is awful, but how is he going to score when he's alone in the box and you're doing your best to slow play down so that there are at least 3-4 defenders all over him?

This has been fixed. I've taken retain possession off, but I've ensured that we keep a high tempo and still pass along the ground. Now play isn't slowed down, the wingers (Inside Forwards?) should be charging up the pitch.

It's not basic. It's poor. You're slowing the game down when you have an aggressive setup. What you'll end up with, is a crowded last third and only Barnes being a constant goal threat, but he'll be surrounded by defenders.

It wasn't poor in League One, both tactics worked excellently there. Now I have Barnes, Sims, and Ibe all going forward with Musonda playing AM(S) so he'll still get forward a bit more.

I'm not even going to go into detail about the second tactic, as I don't know what a Christmas Tree O'Doom is, but it's horrific. The midfield is a shambles.

It's actually a proven tactic. I'm not 100% sure how it works, but it seems to be really effective as an away underdog tactic, and was the main tactic that I used as Oldham romped to the League One title not too long ago in-game.

 

[WJ]

I didn't tell you to put your fullbacks on Defend duties. I just explained what you've set them at. Your major issue was/is in midfield. The fullbacks were fine on Support.

The 4-2-3-1 should ideally have 2 steady midfielders, especially if you're playing them as high up as the CM strata.

I also feel the need to tell you that the TI says highER tempo, not necessarily HIGH tempo. You're a little higher than 'average' tempo at the moment.

I'm glad you were lucky enough to have that tactic work for you in the past, but make no mistake, it's not a good one. Same goes for the second. It's not a proven tactic. It might 'work' in FM15, but that doesn't make it good or a sound footballing tactic.

 

[WJ]

Neither of them are competent going forward, but even so I'd expect them to maybe make the occasional run forward, to support the team. FM literally says that itself.

That's what a Support duty does, so that's actually what you want.

I've seen god knows how many matches live, but I've never really seen a ball winning midfielder used. With us, it's always the use of a deep lying playmaker, defensive mid (out and out) or a half back. It makes sense though. I'll swap Jay Spearing to be a CM(D) for now and see how that turns out.

I was talking about watching any match in FM. You wanted a player who sits back. The BWM doesn't ever 'sit'.

 

[GL32]

That's what a Support duty does, so that's actually what you want.

I'll rotate between the two for now, the fullbacks are getting so much more done with this formation leaving the forward four to cause havoc.

I was talking about watching any match in FM. You wanted a player who sits back. The BWM doesn't ever 'sit'.

That makes more sense. I only have my highlights on Key so don't really see much, I've took that role off now anyway.

First game with my updated tactic (AM down to Support, an anchor and a DLP in the middle) gave me a 3-0 win. Barnes and Clayton x2. Had a goal wrongly disallowed and Barnes and Kelechi both missed a sitter each. (That'll improve over time)
It's looking very good, thanks for the help. I think I'll be able to go on from here on my own, looks like I understand the roles a bit more now.

 

[WJ]

I only have my highlights on Key so don't really see much

That's a huge problem. If you're having issues, watch more of a game to see what problems you have.