efcneilcawley

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Hi, I've played FM for a fair few years, i'm not great at the game but i'm okay.

Just a question regarding tactics/pre game/during game

Tactics : How do you decide what formation/team instructions you use for your team,

Pre Game : Do you change formation/team instructions depending on the opponent?

During the game : I watch it on extended highlights, but i never know when to perhaps change team instructions/listen to assistant manager etc. Am i best judging how i see best or what i think best?

Sorry the post may sound quite dumb/silly but i just want to improve on the game.
 
OK, if you have been playing a few years I am sure you realise that this is a HUGE question - there are so many different ways of approaching your questions. Anyway, here's my take on them, from the assumption you are just starting a save, or just taken over at a new club:

Once I know which club I am at, the first thing I want to know is where I am expected to finish, media prediction and board expectation/philosophy guide me here. If I am expected to be challenging near the top I will be looking at this with a view to controlling most of my games if it is a relegation dog-fight I will be looking at more defensive/counter approaches. So a top team I will develop an Attacking, a Controlling, and a Standard/Counter approach. Looking at a dog-fight I will lean more towards a Defensive, a Counter etc.

Tactics : How do you decide what formation/team instructions you use for your team,

Well, when i first look at my squad, I got to tactics screen, select the 'Reports' view, and sort by Current Ability - that way my assistant ranks the players in order of who he thinks are the best. I am looking for my 'best' 3 or four players. I place them on the tactics pitch in their preferred positions - with three or four of them in place, I start to see an indication of base formation, so will I be using AM-L/R or M-L/R? If one is a DM then I am looking at 4-1-2-3 or 4141 or a narrower formation 41212. These top three or four players are what I would build the formation around as I want to get the best out of the best players.

Looking at their attributes and personalities, I work out how I expect them to play both when our team has the ball and without the ball - are they going to be very mobile? hard-working? pacey? High vision/flair? Good passing?
Now I have an idea of the key components of the core tactic.

Next step, is back to the squad list, still sorted by CA, and the 'next level' of players are looked at - now I know what my key players are like, I can work out how to get the rest of them working to support those top guys. So say one of my top players plays in the MC strata, has fantastic vision, passing, flair etc - I want a player who can win the ball and give it to him. So i am thinking now along the lines of combinations and partnerships.

This exercise should fill out all 11 spaces on the tactics pitch, you will have arrived at a formation, as well as an idea in your mind of how to approach the base tactic which should get the best out of this group of players. You will also have a pretty good idea on where your strengths and weaknesses are, so you can set scouts assignments at this point to find the players you want to fill the gaps.

I am now in a position where I want to play a friendly - which brings me to the next question:

Pre Game : Do you change formation/team instructions depending on the opponent?

Yes, a little.
Having been through the above process, I will play a couple of friendlies without any TIs or PIs or OIs to see how the unit works, on default. Watching full-game or Comprehensive highlights., I will add one or two instructions here or there to see a: if it improves the tactic, b: what it does to a particular player in a particular role. Or how it affects my midfield/defensive line/width etc. I will play at least three friendlies against stronger opposition, three against similar-ranked opposition and three against easier opposition - using the same approach to tweak instructions etc so I see how we defend, how we fair in 'even' matches, and how well we can attack/break down the stubborn parked buses. (Xtra Tip: Make the easier friendlies the last ones you play, a few wins before season start boosts morale)

So entering the season, I will have an idea of how to defend, how to attack and how to be 'cautious'. Early in a save, without the history to draw on, I will go pretty much on the scout reports and analysis, media prediction, team reputation and pre-match odds to decide how I approach a given fixture - do I set up quite defensive/cautious? Do I go more aggressive and attacking? From the earlier preparation I will have a good idea on how to set up the tactic to suit the players on the pitch.

So by the first game of the first season, I will have at least one formation with attacking, holding and defensive instructions attached. (One tactic slot, three sets of instructions saved). I usually end up with two depending on the team and expectations - so for example a 4141 for more cautious, counter-type approaches, and a 4123 for more control/attacking approaches (can usually switch between the two without needing subs) one can be tight and compact one can be more wide and 'flowing'.

By Christmas in the first season I will have developed a third tactic/formation, or at least have a much better idea of one - this third tactic slot might just be used for a formation/tactic that trains the squad in the attributes I want improved, and may rarely be used in a match.

So, we have looked at the scout reports, the analysis, and decided how we set up for the next game.

During the game : I watch it on extended highlights, but i never know when to perhaps change team instructions/listen to assistant manager etc. Am i best judging how i see best or what i think best?

Early in the save at least, I would recommend watching as much as possible of the game, either full-match or Comprehensive, the action the game selects as highlights might be the ONLY time a particular combination worked - there could be 10 other examples that you don't see in shorter views.
Start the game, watch the first 15-20 mins or so looking at specific areas of the pitch - are we controlling the areas we thought we would? Are we stopping their key players well enough? Are we creating space and chances the way we planned? If we are, then leave it as is - maybe shout encouragement. If we are not, why not? Are we getting enough of the ball? Are we being overrun in midfield? Is my striker being left too isolated?

Again, a few tweaks here and there may be all that is needed - adjust a players duty, or the whole team mentality, add/remove one or two instructions as I see fit. The AssMan's advice can sometimes identify something I have missed, but I don't always follow it unless I agree with it, it can point you to an area that needs looking at but nothing more.

Maybe I need to switch from my initial tactic to a more defensive one - so from 4123 back to 4141 perhaps, or vice versa. All depends on what I am seeing happen on the pitch. My player ratings and opposition player ratings are a good indicator - if they have a player who is getting a good rating, I need to look at why and work out how to contain him, if one of my players is getting a good rating, I need to work out why, and look at how to exploit him.

20 - 30 mins of a game is plenty to see how any adjustments have worked the way you wanted, if not, small adjustments here and there. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Last ten minutes might call for a more extreme tactical change depending on the match - go all-out Overload to scrape something, or tighten up and park the bus to protect. (I do wish the Waste Time instruction was available in higher mentalities than Defensive). I may just slow things down if I am in control/ahead, lower tempo, shorter passing, more fluid - or speed it up - higher tempo, dribble less more structured.

I am not a great follower of the 'one tactic for home, one tactic for away' approach - football is too 'fluid' for that. Being able to adjust as and when needed can be key as long as you don't get caught up trying to put fires out all the time, the discipline for us the manager to just let things play out for a while before making changes can be hard.


There you go - if you have time to read all of that - well done!
I hope you get something out of it.
 
Last edited:
Great response by Snorks. I'll go the simple route with a couple of thoughts....

Be Realistic. Echoing what Snorks mentioned, but I'll emphasize it. Don't expect a side full of non-league players to play like Barcelona because you created "a Barcelona tactic". Don't expect to take over any side in the Premier League and immediately win the title. Just because some people can massively overachieve doesn't mean everyone can and should expect that (or that it was always even done legitimately). Look where you expeted to finish and how your players compare to the rest of the league. Have realistic targets. If you are expecting to finish 15th out of 20 and you manage to finish 12th, that's a success. Great work!

Be Logical. You don't have to be a "tactical master" to understand the basics. A lot of it is just logical. If you don't have many players defending, you wont' defend very effectively. if you have a high defensive line, you will be vulnerable to players getting in behind. If you have no wide players, you wings are vulnerable. It doesn't take a FIFA-certification to understand that. Chances are that if you play FM, you probably watch footie. If you watch footie, even poor commentators will point out enough about the tactics involved that its almost hard not pick up some basics.

Watch. Its kinda the point of the game, but it seems to happen less often that one might think. Watch matches and look for problems. What are you expecting players to do? What are they actually doing?

Be Simple. Don't create a tactic and slap 15 Team Instructions on there because they seem like a good idea. Add them as you need them, based on watching and analyzing. But only with an understanding of what they modify. There seems to be this conception amongst some FMers that picking a formation, mentality and shape isn't a tactic yet. It absolutely is. Those choices dictate A TON. There are plenty of guides on those things interact as well as what Team Instructions do. But I would generally suggest starting with something basic and add from there based on watching matches and analyzing. And be aware that Mentality doesn't equate to playing style - its more "risk" than anything else. You can be quite defensive with an Attacking Mentality or very Attacking with a Counter mentality.

Right or Wrong. Realize that there are few "right" and "wrong" ways to play. We all find job from different aspects of the game. We all approach it in our own way. You can be successful by playing super-attacking. And you can be successful with a very defensive approach. The FM tactics engine is one in which one change impacts other things. So when you make a decision, there are consequences. Like the previously mentioned high defensive line - if you accept the risks, its fine.

Balance. Its important.
 
OK, if you have been playing a few years I am sure you realise that this is a HUGE question - there are so many different ways of approaching your questions. Anyway, here's my take on them, from the assumption you are just starting a save, or just taken over at a new club:

Once I know which club I am at, the first thing I want to know is where I am expected to finish, media prediction and board expectation/philosophy guide me here. If I am expected to be challenging near the top I will be looking at this with a view to controlling most of my games if it is a relegation dog-fight I will be looking at more defensive/counter approaches. So a top team I will develop an Attacking, a Controlling, and a Standard/Counter approach. Looking at a dog-fight I will lean more towards a Defensive, a Counter etc.

Tactics : How do you decide what formation/team instructions you use for your team,

Well, when i first look at my squad, I got to tactics screen, select the 'Reports' view, and sort by Current Ability - that way my assistant ranks the players in order of who he thinks are the best. I am looking for my 'best' 3 or four players. I place them on the tactics pitch in their preferred positions - with three or four of them in place, I start to see an indication of base formation, so will I be using AM-L/R or M-L/R? If one is a DM then I am looking at 4-1-2-3 or 4141 or a narrower formation 41212. These top three or four players are what I would build the formation around as I want to get the best out of the best players.

Looking at their attributes and personalities, I work out how I expect them to play both when our team has the ball and without the ball - are they going to be very mobile? hard-working? pacey? High vision/flair? Good passing?
Now I have an idea of the key components of the core tactic.

Next step, is back to the squad list, still sorted by CA, and the 'next level' of players are looked at - now I know what my key players are like, I can work out how to get the rest of them working to support those top guys. So say one of my top players plays in the MC strata, has fantastic vision, passing, flair etc - I want a player who can win the ball and give it to him. So i am thinking now along the lines of combinations and partnerships.

This exercise should fill out all 11 spaces on the tactics pitch, you will have arrived at a formation, as well as an idea in your mind of how to approach the base tactic which should get the best out of this group of players. You will also have a pretty good idea on where your strengths and weaknesses are, so you can set scouts assignments at this point to find the players you want to fill the gaps.

I am now in a position where I want to play a friendly - which brings me to the next question:

Pre Game : Do you change formation/team instructions depending on the opponent?

Yes, a little.
Having been through the above process, I will play a couple of friendlies without any TIs or PIs or OIs to see how the unit works, on default. Watching full-game or Comprehensive highlights., I will add one or two instructions here or there to see a: if it improves the tactic, b: what it does to a particular player in a particular role. Or how it affects my midfield/defensive line/width etc. I will play at least three friendlies against stronger opposition, three against similar-ranked opposition and three against easier opposition - using the same approach to tweak instructions etc so I see how we defend, how we fair in 'even' matches, and how well we can attack/break down the stubborn parked buses. (Xtra Tip: Make the easier friendlies the last ones you play, a few wins before season start boosts morale)

So entering the season, I will have an idea of how to defend, how to attack and how to be 'cautious'. Early in a save, without the history to draw on, I will go pretty much on the scout reports and analysis, media prediction, team reputation and pre-match odds to decide how I approach a given fixture - do I set up quite defensive/cautious? Do I go more aggressive and attacking? From the earlier preparation I will have a good idea on how to set up the tactic to suit the players on the pitch.

So by the first game of the first season, I will have at least one formation with attacking, holding and defensive instructions attached. (One tactic slot, three sets of instructions saved). I usually end up with two depending on the team and expectations - so for example a 4141 for more cautious, counter-type approaches, and a 4123 for more control/attacking approaches (can usually switch between the two without needing subs) one can be tight and compact one can be more wide and 'flowing'.

By Christmas in the first season I will have developed a third tactic/formation, or at least have a much better idea of one - this third tactic slot might just be used for a formation/tactic that trains the squad in the attributes I want improved, and may rarely be used in a match.

So, we have looked at the scout reports, the analysis, and decided how we set up for the next game.

During the game : I watch it on extended highlights, but i never know when to perhaps change team instructions/listen to assistant manager etc. Am i best judging how i see best or what i think best?

Early in the save at least, I would recommend watching as much as possible of the game, either full-match or Comprehensive, the action the game selects as highlights might be the ONLY time a particular combination worked - there could be 10 other examples that you don't see in shorter views.
Start the game, watch the first 15-20 mins or so looking at specific areas of the pitch - are we controlling the areas we thought we would? Are we stopping their key players well enough? Are we creating space and chances the way we planned? If we are, then leave it as is - maybe shout encouragement. If we are not, why not? Are we getting enough of the ball? Are we being overrun in midfield? Is my striker being left too isolated?

Again, a few tweaks here and there may be all that is needed - adjust a players duty, or the whole team mentality, add/remove one or two instructions as I see fit. The AssMan's advice can sometimes identify something I have missed, but I don't always follow it unless I agree with it, it can point you to an area that needs looking at but nothing more.

Maybe I need to switch from my initial tactic to a more defensive one - so from 4123 back to 4141 perhaps, or vice versa. All depends on what I am seeing happen on the pitch. My player ratings and opposition player ratings are a good indicator - if they have a player who is getting a good rating, I need to look at why and work out how to contain him, if one of my players is getting a good rating, I need to work out why, and look at how to exploit him.

20 - 30 mins of a game is plenty to see how any adjustments have worked the way you wanted, if not, small adjustments here and there. If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. Last ten minutes might call for a more extreme tactical change depending on the match - go all-out Overload to scrape something, or tighten up and park the bus to protect. (I do wish the Waste Time instruction was available in higher mentalities than Defensive). I may just slow things down if I am in control/ahead, lower tempo, shorter passing, more fluid - or speed it up - higher tempo, dribble less more structured.

I am not a great follower of the 'one tactic for home, one tactic for away' approach - football is too 'fluid' for that. Being able to adjust as and when needed can be key as long as you don't get caught up trying to put fires out all the time, the discipline for us the manager to just let things play out for a while before making changes can be hard.


There you go - if you have time to read all of that - well done!
I hope you get something out of it.


I've just scanned it but will have a proper read of this tomorrow morning (it's late). Thanks very much for the response. I think i just need to be a little more pro-active, take more notice of the player ratings and the zones they're attacking with. I'm already a fair few games into the season (Fiorentina) and i'm dominating the possession but just not creating enough chances so i'll take your tips and try watch more of the actual game.
 
Great response by Snorks. I'll go the simple route with a couple of thoughts....

Be Realistic. Echoing what Snorks mentioned, but I'll emphasize it. Don't expect a side full of non-league players to play like Barcelona because you created "a Barcelona tactic". Don't expect to take over any side in the Premier League and immediately win the title. Just because some people can massively overachieve doesn't mean everyone can and should expect that (or that it was always even done legitimately). Look where you expeted to finish and how your players compare to the rest of the league. Have realistic targets. If you are expecting to finish 15th out of 20 and you manage to finish 12th, that's a success. Great work!

Be Logical. You don't have to be a "tactical master" to understand the basics. A lot of it is just logical. If you don't have many players defending, you wont' defend very effectively. if you have a high defensive line, you will be vulnerable to players getting in behind. If you have no wide players, you wings are vulnerable. It doesn't take a FIFA-certification to understand that. Chances are that if you play FM, you probably watch footie. If you watch footie, even poor commentators will point out enough about the tactics involved that its almost hard not pick up some basics.

Watch. Its kinda the point of the game, but it seems to happen less often that one might think. Watch matches and look for problems. What are you expecting players to do? What are they actually doing?

Be Simple. Don't create a tactic and slap 15 Team Instructions on there because they seem like a good idea. Add them as you need them, based on watching and analyzing. But only with an understanding of what they modify. There seems to be this conception amongst some FMers that picking a formation, mentality and shape isn't a tactic yet. It absolutely is. Those choices dictate A TON. There are plenty of guides on those things interact as well as what Team Instructions do. But I would generally suggest starting with something basic and add from there based on watching matches and analyzing. And be aware that Mentality doesn't equate to playing style - its more "risk" than anything else. You can be quite defensive with an Attacking Mentality or very Attacking with a Counter mentality.

Right or Wrong. Realize that there are few "right" and "wrong" ways to play. We all find job from different aspects of the game. We all approach it in our own way. You can be successful by playing super-attacking. And you can be successful with a very defensive approach. The FM tactics engine is one in which one change impacts other things. So when you make a decision, there are consequences. Like the previously mentioned high defensive line - if you accept the risks, its fine.

Balance. Its important.

Thanks for the response, i'll read it better tomorrow when i play FM but from what i've read, i agree and understand with what you're saying. Some very good points made.
 
Question One: You play a 5-2-3 formation and you don't "decide" anything. Jacobson already decided that what should work on this engine is 5-2-3.
Question two: You play a **** 5-2-3 formation throughout your save with ANY opponent doesn't matter who u are who u are playing against etc.
Question three: AGAIN , this is a redundant question but you DO NOT CHANGE anything ever always 5-2-3.
Question Four: Just go on key highlights and leave everything to assistant makes no difference.

And no , I am not trolling you unfortunately thats how things are now on fm 18.
 
Question One: You play a 5-2-3 formation and you don't "decide" anything. Jacobson already decided that what should work on this engine is 5-2-3.
Question two: You play a **** 5-2-3 formation throughout your save with ANY opponent doesn't matter who u are who u are playing against etc.
Question three: AGAIN , this is a redundant question but you DO NOT CHANGE anything ever always 5-2-3.
Question Four: Just go on key highlights and leave everything to assistant makes no difference.

And no , I am not trolling you unfortunately thats how things are now on fm 18.

Oh dear - bitter?(H)
 
Oh dear - bitter?(H)
Well m8 its better to say about 4 sentences how it is than to spat out like 2 pages of irrelevant babble that won't help anyone like you did..
"If one is a DM then I am looking at 4-1-2-3 or 4141 or a narrower formation 41212" dude noone uses formations like that anymore unless u want to get pooped on by the match engine..
 
We're not getting "pooped on" though. And Miles has nothing to do with ME or ME exploits.
 
Well m8 its better to say about 4 sentences how it is than to spat out like 2 pages of irrelevant babble that won't help anyone like you did..
"If one is a DM then I am looking at 4-1-2-3 or 4141 or a narrower formation 41212" dude noone uses formations like that anymore unless u want to get pooped on by the match engine..

Well, if I am getting pooped on it is nice **** - undefeated season in Serie A with AC Milan - 4123. Move to Liverpool, win EPL first season, 4231 or 4123, Carabao Cup win, runner up in Europa League and FA Cup final left to play. Getting pooped on? Really?

To be honest it sounded like you 'advice' was coming from someone not enjoying the game. I was spouting '2 pages of irrelevant babble' in an effort to help someone who asked, you seemed to be having a go at the game.

Not having a pop at the way you choose to play, but if you pick the easy option and use a perceived ME Exploit, then you won;t get as much satisfaction. Do you download tactics and plug-and-play by any chance?

Maybe there is a way to exploit the ME, use it if you choose to, but really 'that's how they are now in FM18' sounded bitter my friend.

You choose how you play the game, not Miles or SI, yet you seem to have 'blamed' Miles Jacobson for your own shortcomings.

So please, re-read your original post and tell me honestly if you feel it doesn't come across as bitter.
 
Well, if I am getting pooped on it is nice **** - undefeated season in Serie A with AC Milan - 4123. Move to Liverpool, win EPL first season, 4231 or 4123, Carabao Cup win, runner up in Europa League and FA Cup final left to play. Getting pooped on? Really?

To be honest it sounded like you 'advice' was coming from someone not enjoying the game. I was spouting '2 pages of irrelevant babble' in an effort to help someone who asked, you seemed to be having a go at the game.

Not having a pop at the way you choose to play, but if you pick the easy option and use a perceived ME Exploit, then you won;t get as much satisfaction. Do you download tactics and plug-and-play by any chance?

Maybe there is a way to exploit the ME, use it if you choose to, but really 'that's how they are now in FM18' sounded bitter my friend.

You choose how you play the game, not Miles or SI, yet you seem to have 'blamed' Miles Jacobson for your own shortcomings.

So please, re-read your original post and tell me honestly if you feel it doesn't come across as bitter.

I agree with you that I don't enjoy this game but dude the things you mentioned are just run of the mill stuff..

Well, if I am getting pooped on it is nice **** - undefeated season in Serie A with AC Milan - 4123. Move to Liverpool, win EPL first season, 4231 or 4123, Carabao Cup win, runner up in Europa League and FA Cup final left to play. Getting pooped on? Really?
You are playing with AC Milan and Liverpool I mean come on.. Runners up in europa league so you couldnt even win a EUROPA LEAGUE with liverpool , we aren't taking CL here dude..I mean to each their own..If you are happy with these "achievements" enjoy.What can I say?
I was just posting my perspective and opinion.

I was spouting '2 pages of irrelevant babble' in an effort to help someone who asked, you seemed to be having a go at the game.
I believe that your effort to help the person was sincere. However I don't believe that this kind of "advice" now days is of any relevance at all.
Like I said dude 5-2-3 is what REALLY works , there might even be some kind of alternatives to it that do something worthwhile but tactics nowdays aren't built on ideas that make "sense" or abide to any logic , they are build around flaws in the match engine and really the only thing people are concerned about with making worthwhile tactics is the EFFECTIVITY of it.

That's all I would say regarding this and there would be no more responses from me as I don't want to get into one of those muppet debates that I had before.

Thanks for understanding.
 
I agree with you that I don't enjoy this game but dude the things you mentioned are just run of the mill stuff..


You are playing with AC Milan and Liverpool I mean come on.. Runners up in europa league so you couldnt even win a EUROPA LEAGUE with liverpool , we aren't taking CL here dude..I mean to each their own..If you are happy with these "achievements" enjoy.What can I say?
I was just posting my perspective and opinion.

I believe that your effort to help the person was sincere. However I don't believe that this kind of "advice" now days is of any relevance at all.
Like I said dude 5-2-3 is what REALLY works , there might even be some kind of alternatives to it that do something worthwhile but tactics nowdays aren't built on ideas that make "sense" or abide to any logic , they are build around flaws in the match engine and really the only thing people are concerned about with making worthwhile tactics is the EFFECTIVITY of it.

That's all I would say regarding this and there would be no more responses from me as I don't want to get into one of those muppet debates that I had before.

Thanks for understanding.


I am astounded by your perception of achievements in Football. Liverpool, having finished 6th in previous season reach the final of EVERY competition they enter, that's EVERY competition entered finished either winner or runner-up and that's not an achievement? Oh, no of course not, a narrow defeat by PSG in one final makes the season a failure?

I think I see where your dissatisfaction stems from now. It all starts to make sense.

And, a word of advice here, take it if you like it's not meant to be condescending, but if you "don't want to get into one of those muppet debates" then don't start them with deprecating posts. You admit you have had them before so ask yourself is there a reason they happen to you? Could it be, possibly, your own attitude?

Seriously, if you aren't enjoying the game, don't play it - walk away and leave it. But try and avoid coming into these open forums and venting your frustrations - it doesn't do anyone any good and doesn't reflect well on yourself either.
 
Rubbish attempt at help Snorks. You didn't even win the World Cup with Milan so what the **** do you know?
 
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