Having problems with 442 against 4231 wide

[Uygar89]

I noticed that I have huge problems against teams that play the 4231-wide formation with 2 cm's instead of 2 dmc's.
I myself am playing a very narrow 442. Is there something, I can do? Have tried some OI's and play through the flanks or mixed or exploit the middle, but seems like nothing really helps. In general I am doing very well, currently 2nd place with 12 games to go with West Ham in the first season and also quarter finals in the europe league.
Has anyone else noticed these problems?
Would be nice to get some help

 

[beshion1943]

its hard for 442narrow to beat 4231 coz there's no player to defend the opponent's 2 FBs .
have a try to use wider width and don't press the 2 CMs of the opponent and exploit the middle.

 

[Uygar89]

hey, with 442 narrow I mean a normal 442 with two wingers. just wrote narrow, because I am playing very narrow (tactical instruction) and my two wide midfielders also have the sit narrower instruction.

 

[Uygar89]

currently I have defensive as strategy, very narrow, exploit the middle and both cm's have the pi tighter marking. am currently testing to only give tight marking to the back four and the rest shall do more a zonal marking.

 

[CaptiveBridge]

What exactly is the problem you have against the 4-2-3-1? What roles do you have set up?

 

[Uygar89]

What exactly is the problem you have against the 4-2-3-1? What roles do you have set up?

Hey,
First team shape: Defensive, very fluid, disciplined, very narrow, slightly higher d-line, closing down sometimes and passing mixed with exploit the middle and overlap instructions.
Player roles: One CB, one BCB, two wing backs attacking, one wide playmaker attacking, one wide midfielder attacking, one cm(d), one cm(s), one df(s) and one f9. main problem against the 4231 wide is that I give away too many goal chances and being put on pressure because the opposition has 5 players in my own half and make it really hard for me to build up the game from the back. I am conceding too many goals against 4231 formations, no matter whether the opposition is called chelsea away or watford at home...

 

[CaptiveBridge]

Hey,
First team shape: Defensive, very fluid, disciplined, very narrow, slightly higher d-line, closing down sometimes and passing mixed with exploit the middle and overlap instructions.
Player roles: One CB, one BCB, two wing backs attacking, one wide playmaker attacking, one wide midfielder attacking, one cm(d), one cm(s), one df(s) and one f9. main problem against the 4231 wide is that I give away too many goal chances and being put on pressure because the opposition has 5 players in my own half and make it really hard for me to build up the game from the back. I am conceding too many goals against 4231 formations, no matter whether the opposition is called chelsea away or watford at home...

Forgive me, but I have no clue what BCB means.
Seems to be a fair bit of players on attack for a defensive mentality. Your flanks are far too exposed as well when you do go forward. Why do you have Look For Overlap? Why are you Exploiting the Middle?

Why build from the back if they are pressuring your back line, is there no other way for you to get the ball up?

 

[Uygar89]

Forgive me, but I have no clue what BCB means.
Seems to be a fair bit of players on attack for a defensive mentality. Your flanks are far too exposed as well when you do go forward. Why do you have Look For Overlap? Why are you Exploiting the Middle?

Why build from the back if they are pressuring your back line, is there no other way for you to get the ball up?

BCB=ball playing defender
Main Problem is, since I am playing a defensive strategy and also one of the wingers is a wide playmaker, he will rarely make runs into the opposition box, but much more stay in the hole and dictate the game. I tried to give the other wide midfielder a support role but with support role he is just staying there and never makes runs when one of my deep staying forwards take the ball and run towards the opposition defenders. also I saw in every single tactic here in the forum that all of them playing their wide players at attack mentality and seems to work for them, so why not for me? but anyway the reason for look for overlap is that since I dont have tradition wingers on the flanks and since both of my wider midfield players will cut in, I want my fullbacks to make offer the width and to make crosses, otherwise it might be to predictable. but I mean when it was really a problem to play with all wide players at attack duty, then I might also have problems agains any side that plays on counter but it seems like the only real problems are against this certain formation. do you really think that I have too many attacking duties? considering i have 4 support dutys and also one of the forwards is a defensive forward. thx for your response.

 

[CaptiveBridge]

BCB=ball playing defender
Main Problem is, since I am playing a defensive strategy and also one of the wingers is a wide playmaker, he will rarely make runs into the opposition box, but much more stay in the hole and dictate the game. I tried to give the other wide midfielder a support role but with support role he is just staying there and never makes runs when one of my deep staying forwards take the ball and run towards the opposition defenders. also I saw in every single tactic here in the forum that all of them playing their wide players at attack mentality and seems to work for them, so why not for me? but anyway the reason for look for overlap is that since I dont have tradition wingers on the flanks and since both of my wider midfield players will cut in, I want my fullbacks to make offer the width and to make crosses, otherwise it might be to predictable. but I mean when it was really a problem to play with all wide players at attack duty, then I might also have problems agains any side that plays on counter but it seems like the only real problems are against this certain formation. do you really think that I have too many attacking duties? considering i have 4 support dutys and also one of the forwards is a defensive forward. thx for your response.

If you want overlaps, you will already have them from having your WBs on attack. All Look For Overlap will now do is to have your wide players play slower, so the instruction is redundant for what you want.

What works for the goose may not work for the gander. Something working for someone else doesn't mean it'll work for you and working in one scenario doesn't mean working in all scenarios. 4-2-3-1 seems to be your bogey tactic, so you will have to change things when playing against it. Having both WBs on attack will make them too aggressive for your mentality. Have the one on the side of your WM be on support and the one on the side of your WP be a FB on attack.

You still haven't said why you exploit the middle. Against a 4-2-3-1 you're overloaded in the middle going forward and are equal on the flanks, try going down the flanks and change both CM to defend. You could even try being a bit more aggressive and play longer passes or switch the mentality to counter.

The number of attack duties and their location seems weird for exploiting the middle.

 

[Uygar89]

If you want overlaps, you will already have them from having your WBs on attack. All Look For Overlap will now do is to have your wide players play slower, so the instruction is redundant for what you want.

What works for the goose may not work for the gander. Something working for someone else doesn't mean it'll work for you and working in one scenario doesn't mean working in all scenarios. 4-2-3-1 seems to be your bogey tactic, so you will have to change things when playing against it. Having both WBs on attack will make them too aggressive for your mentality. Have the one on the side of your WM be on support and the one on the side of your WP be a FB on attack.

You still haven't said why you exploit the middle. Against a 4-2-3-1 you're overloaded in the middle going forward and are equal on the flanks, try going down the flanks and change both CM to defend. You could even try being a bit more aggressive and play longer passes or switch the mentality to counter.

The number of attack duties and their location seems weird for exploiting the middle.

Thank you for your feedback and advice. I will try to change some setups. What you say, makes a lot of sense. The exploid the middle instruction was done in order to really pack the middle with as much players as possible as I wanted to stay solid in the middle as simeone's atletico does. Or do you think playing very narrow and telling the wide players to sit narrower will be enough?

 

[CaptiveBridge]

Thank you for your feedback and advice. I will try to change some setups. What you say, makes a lot of sense. The exploid the middle instruction was done in order to really pack the middle with as much players as possible as I wanted to stay solid in the middle as simeone's atletico does. Or do you think playing very narrow and telling the wide players to sit narrower will be enough?

I could be wrong, but at Exploit the Middle wouldn't help in that regard. It's mainly an attacking shout. Playing narrow and having the wide players sit narrower works for what you need.

Aspey had written an article on his site for a similar attempt to play a Simeone styled 4-4-2. You can read it here: https://cdeekyfm.wordpress.com/2016/01/03/the-development-of-my-4-4-2/

Some things are different between yours and his, but for the most part you two are/were attempting similar ideas.