Help me be more flexible - Man Utd tactic

[WJ]

Neither of them honestly...

And no it's not a bad result but I keep getting bad results away from home on a constant basis.And I struggle against the big teams, lost 2 times against City, only 1 points in 2 games against Chelsea etc.

I think these problems play a big part in it.

Neither? You discovered more than just 2 issues, so I'm not sure what you mean.

For the 2nd part, no you didn't. You only made the changes you made in the last game. The others can't count because they all had the same issues that you've only picked up on now.

Again, you list many problems. What can't you fix?

 

[Bratone]

Neither? You discovered more than just 2 issues, so I'm not sure what you mean.

For the 2nd part, no you didn't. You only made the changes you made in the last game. The others can't count because they all had the same issues that you've only picked up on now.

Again, you list many problems. What can't you fix?

I don't understand what is not clear.

Yes, I listed all those problems that I discovered, and I don't know how to fix neither of them !

What's the thing you don't get /???

 

[WJ]

Neither = 2. That's why I didn't get it.

 

[Bratone]

Aaah ok, sorry english is not my first language.

NONE of them. Hope it's better haha.

 

[WJ]

By the way, you seem to be unaware of PPMs. They will change the way your team plays.

Rooney (your Poacher and a strange choice) has the Comes Deep PPM, which is why he drops deep.

Memphis has Shoot from Distance, which is why you're seeing that.

 

[WJ]

The rest are surely obvious? Closing down is an issue (as I pointed out) don't close down as much?

Passes into space is an issue, so remove it?

You're complaining about passes being too direct... remove it?

I mean this is very, very obvious. It has nothing to do with being new.

If you're new though, the 3 guides in here will help a lot: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...tics/350220-looking-tactical-help-advice.html

 

[Bratone]

The rest are surely obvious? Closing down is an issue (as I pointed out) don't close down as much?

Passes into space is an issue, so remove it?

You're complaining about passes being too direct... remove it?

I mean this is very, very obvious. It has nothing to do with being new.

If you're new though, the 3 guides in here will help a lot: http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...tics/350220-looking-tactical-help-advice.html

I think the problem is the whole tactic, I made the changes you said, removed close down and pass into space, but look at this:

I played on counter also, drop deep on, both fullbacks on defend, Hazard with tight marking and tackle hard on gets 3 assists, Costa with Close Down Always gets a hattrick.

46 shots and 21 on target.I'm done.

 

[Bratone]

I don't get this game anymore, I am speechless.

 

[WJ]

I think the problem is the whole tactic, I made the changes you said, removed close down and pass into space, but look at this:

No. That's not all you did:

I played on counter also, drop deep on, both fullbacks on defend, Hazard with tight marking and tackle hard on gets 3 assists, Costa with Close Down Always gets a hattrick.

46 shots and 21 on target.I'm done.

If you're going to blame the game or me or the tactic, you won't get very far with this game.

Did you watch this in Key/Extended highlights again?

 

[WJ]

I played on counter also, drop deep on, both fullbacks on defend, Hazard with tight marking and tackle hard on gets 3 assists, Costa with Close Down Always gets a hattrick.

To add the my previous post, you decided that Counter (which is already fairly deep) needed to be deeper.

You decided the both fullbacks needed to be on Defend, which causes them to stay back, behind play. How did this affect build-up play?

You also decided to mark Hazard tight and to dive into tackles that your defenders aren't all that sure they'll win, against a quick-footed, two-footed player. This raises a million questions. With the fullbacks now deep and in line with the D-line, were they tight on Hazard often or was he able to drop deeper into space? When he did get the ball, was your tackling instruction working? Did you at any point look to see if it was? Did you change anything if it wasn't working?

You decided to close down Costa. Same questions. Did you at any point look at the closing down of Costa to see if this change to your system worked as planned? Why wasn't it working? Was he able to find space too easily? Where was this space? Was he able to just dribble past your defenders? etc.

 

[Bratone]

To add the my previous post, you decided that Counter (which is already fairly deep) needed to be deeper.

You decided the both fullbacks needed to be on Defend, which causes them to stay back, behind play. How did this affect build-up play?

You also decided to mark Hazard tight and to dive into tackles that your defenders aren't all that sure they'll win, against a quick-footed, two-footed player. This raises a million questions. With the fullbacks now deep and in line with the D-line, were they tight on Hazard often or was he able to drop deeper into space? When he did get the ball, was your tackling instruction working? Did you at any point look to see if it was? Did you change anything if it wasn't working?

You decided to close down Costa. Same questions. Did you at any point look at the closing down of Costa to see if this change to your system worked as planned? Why wasn't it working? Was he able to find space too easily? Where was this space? Was he able to just dribble past your defenders? etc.

1.I watched both games on comprenhave, the second leg almost all game on full match actually because I couldn't believe what I am seeing.

2.I put the fullbacks on defend after 30 minutes or so because Hazard was every time played over my fullback with a deep pass, and cross freely.After that this kinda stop, but he could still beat my man easily and put crosses in.

3.Yes, I decided to mark Hazard tight and tackle him hard but this didn't show at all in the game.When he got the ball was free, no one was tight marking him.And no one tried to tackle him honestly.

4.Costa scored a hattrick only with headers if I remember correctly, second goal from a corner.He was never closed down, I mean they were FREE headers in the box, none of my defenders were near him.

Now, in the 2nd leg I don't know what happened.I started with attacking, push higher up, more direct passing, get stuck in and exploit the flanks if I remember correctly and I just played them off the park.

This is my biggest comeback ever in Football Manager.After I went 4-0 up I decided to go defensive and I defended with the same instructions that failed miserably in the first leg. I mean, counter and so on, that's why Chelsea had more shots than me, but honesty, they never looked like scoring, my team defended very well, Chelsea didn't create anything important.I also changed to shorter passing and retain possesion.My fullbacks were on defend too.

After 80 minutes or so I went defensive, changed the tactic, put both of my CMs to DMs with a defensive midfielder and a ball winning midfielder role and also moved the AMC to MC and set him as DLP.

So, I don't know what to take from this, maybe the problem really is in the away games.

 

[WJ]

2.I put the fullbacks on defend after 30 minutes or so because Hazard was every time played over my fullback with a deep pass, and cross freely.After that this kinda stop, but he could still beat my man easily and put crosses in.

So it was the combination of acceleration and dribbling that did it? Most likely because you asked the defenders to attempt low-percentage tackles.

3.Yes, I decided to mark Hazard tight and tackle him hard but this didn't show at all in the game.When he got the ball was free, no one was tight marking him.And no one tried to tackle him honestly.

Why didn't you try to specific man-mark him then? Tight marking applies to when that attacker enters the defender's zone. Specific man-marking will tell your defender to follow Hazard all over the place.

Now, in the 2nd leg I don't know what happened.I started with attacking, push higher up, more direct passing, get stuck in and exploit the flanks if I remember correctly and I just played them off the park.

What is sad is that I didn't even watch the game, but I can tell you what happened while you can't.

They had a commanding 1st leg lead, so they went very defensive. Too defensive and tbh, that's an AI flaw. That's why you were able to dominate them.

 

[Bratone]

To add the my previous post, you decided that Counter (which is already fairly deep) needed to be deeper.

You decided the both fullbacks needed to be on Defend, which causes them to stay back, behind play. How did this affect build-up play?

You also decided to mark Hazard tight and to dive into tackles that your defenders aren't all that sure they'll win, against a quick-footed, two-footed player. This raises a million questions. With the fullbacks now deep and in line with the D-line, were they tight on Hazard often or was he able to drop deeper into space? When he did get the ball, was your tackling instruction working? Did you at any point look to see if it was? Did you change anything if it wasn't working?

You decided to close down Costa. Same questions. Did you at any point look at the closing down of Costa to see if this change to your system worked as planned? Why wasn't it working? Was he able to find space too easily? Where was this space? Was he able to just dribble past your defenders? etc.

So I have no credit for that ? Just an AI flaw ? And why my team was able to defend well against Chelsea, playing home, with the same instructions and tactics that failed miserably in the away game ?

 

[WJ]

So I have no credit for that ? Just an AI flaw ? And why my team was able to defend well against Chelsea, playing home, with the same instructions and tactics that failed miserably in the away game ?

Because you're forgetting that there are 11 other players on the pitch with their own tactics and manager and that teams are less defensive at home.

 

[England66]

You need to set the individual instructions for the players. From the top up you will want the front 4 to pursue the ball in the final third to stop them playing out from the back. You want one of your CM to sit while the other harasses. Perhaps a move of one CM to DM might help with this. You don't want your defenders to come out from the back unless they are 100% going to win the challenge otherwise you leave yourself vulnerable. If they play a DM try to get Mata in and around him to ****** the ball and stop them building a tempo. Generally I would set Mata to man mark the DM in this case or whoever you have at AMC. I would however suggest that away from home not playing a 4231 instead 433 or even 451 is a much better way to play as it gives you a more structured shape especially when they play a 4231 against you as you can stop their AMC (usually their most creative player) from playing. Hope that helps a bit.