Help me to but Fergie 4-4-2 in terms of FM

[donkarlito]

View attachment 118682
This is the version against Rangers.To me it looks like a 4-2-4 Im guessing fergie still use a rigid philosophy he like his players to express themselves, passing default, I would say more pressing, I would say default roaming. I think its a high defensive line high normal tempo and wide width.

The Gk and CBs are self explained.
FBs are fullback role in attack
Now scholes and carrick roles I would think their both deep lying playmakers with possible carrick with runs from deep sometimes but im not sure ??
The Wingers I would of thought inside forwards in attack but zonal marking describes this formation as a 4-4-2 so possible wingers in attack that move into channels.
Berbatov links with the midfield so i would deep lying playmaker or trequartista, Rooney leading the line in attack i would say complete forward in attack.

2nd Version against Tottenham
View attachment 118683
Zonal marking describes this as a 4-4-2/4-2-2-2 it looks like a 4-2-2-2. Team intstrustions pretty much the same as above apart from a deep defensive line now would you narrow width or normal?
The Gk and CBs are self explained.
FBs are fullback role in support
Carrick I would say deep lying plamaker support, Fletcher Box to Box both MC
Park must be in the AMLC as attacking mid in attack role possible support?
Nani AMR inside forward attack.
The forwards are to me both to attack duty guessing because of park playing behind them but I would say Berbatov as deep lying forward and hernandez as a advance forward or a poacher?

 

[Thanasis7]

since you've got amazing defenders i wouldn't reccomend you a deep def line. Try a normal def line. Also keep in mind that with a wide width you'll be exposed through the middle and you'll have to set your mc's in defending roles (in case you do that set your passing focus through the flancs). I would reccomend keeping your width to normal and having one of your mc's (Fletcher) as ball winning defend and the other as deep lyin support (carrick, scholes). Also, 1 full back to defend (o'shea) and the other to support and run from deep sometimes (evra). To connect the midfield with the attack make sure one of your strikers is in support (I'd use Berba as Deep lying fwrd support next to rooney, and if berba is injured use rooney there next to hernandez). Whoever you're playing as strikers have the 1 with the best movement to roam from position. Finally, in front of a defending full back you should set a winger who hugs the line, and in front of a supporting full back an inside forward and set the full back to hug the line. That way your wings always stay occupied. Hope that helps

 

[jack_widnell]

fergie is renowned for his rigid formation, with the exception of his wing backs... rafael and evra. fletcher very much a ball winning midfielder... rooney as DLF or TQ?

 

[Raphael.]

I'd call Rooney a TQ seen as he spends a lot on time in midfield

 

[donkarlito]

I'd call Rooney a TQ seen as he spends a lot on time in midfield

He helps alot in tracking back which TQ dont

---------- Post added at 01:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:59 AM ----------

To connect the midfield with the attack make sure one of your strikers is in support (I'd use Berba as Deep lying fwrd support next to rooney, and if berba is injured use rooney there next to hernandez).

Wouldnt a TQ still do the job even though its attack its because he doent help out defensive kinda like an anchorman only has defensive duty because he doesnt venture forward

 

[iNickStuff]

I'd call Rooney a TQ seen as he spends a lot on time in midfield

Rooney is definitely not a Trequartista. Berbatov is more like a Trequartista then him.

Rooney is either a Complete Forward with Support Duty or a Deep-Lying Forward with Support duty.


He comes back to collect the ball, helps the defence and starts attacking moves. Trequartistas are the opposite of that.

 

[donkarlito]

Didnt want to start a new thread

again same question as thread look at these 3 pics for zonalmarking
View attachment 162922

View attachment 162921

View attachment 162923

First of all to me it looks more like a 4-2-2-1-1 sort of the formation with the 2 cm's pulled back to dm's

now player role (using players from the Man Utd vs Chelsea)

GK: Van der Sar - Sweeper GK/Defend
RB: O’Shea - Fullback/Suppor
CB: Rio - CB/Defend
CB: Vidic - CB/Defender
LB: Evra - Wingback/Attack
MR: Park - Winger/ Attack
MCR/DMCR: Carrick - cm/support or DLP/ support
MCL/DMCL: Giggs - cm/support or DLP/ support
ML: Nani - Winger/attack (cut inside)
AM: Rooney - TQ but tweaked
ST: Hernandez - Poacher

what are peoples opinion on this

 

[Mike.]

Its a 4-4-2. Rooney is more a complete forward, support. His PPM will make come deep into that position. Nani is just winger attack, his PPM will make him cut inside, the left wing is winger support, but with similar creative freedom to the right

Fluid philosophy, control starting mentality, CM's are DLP support if giggs/scholes/carrick/ cm support if fletcher/fabio/gibson/anderson

 

[donkarlito]

Its a 4-4-2. Rooney is more a complete forward, support. His PPM will make come deep into that position. Nani is just winger attack, his PPM will make him cut inside, the left wing is winger support, but with similar creative freedom to the right

Fluid philosophy, control starting mentality, CM's are DLP support if giggs/scholes/carrick/ cm support if fletcher/fabio/gibson/anderson

Still think Fergie uses rigid philosophy

"It may seem odd to equate a “rigid” philosophy with a team famous for its attacking football in recent years, but one of the other traits of Manchester United has been their stability. Players such as Nicky **** and Darren Fletcher over the years have thrived in their specific roles despite being far less illustrious than some of their teammates. Everyone has a role and a purpose, which has led United to be as famed for their clean sheets as their goals. The extra freedom given to their forward players has meant that, given the superb technical and mental attributes of their squad, the team can produce aesthetic attacking football as well as grinding out results when needed."

also look at Rooney's passing

View attachment 162925

alot of passes for a striker

 

[Mike.]

Still think Fergie uses rigid philosophy

"It may seem odd to equate a “rigid” philosophy with a team famous for its attacking football in recent years, but one of the other traits of Manchester United has been their stability. Players such as Nicky **** and Darren Fletcher over the years have thrived in their specific roles despite being far less illustrious than some of their teammates. Everyone has a role and a purpose, which has led United to be as famed for their clean sheets as their goals. The extra freedom given to their forward players has meant that, given the superb technical and mental attributes of their squad, the team can produce aesthetic attacking football as well as grinding out results when needed."

also look at Rooney's passing

View attachment 162925

alot of passes for a striker

I've read TT&F too, currently its not rigid thats why the 4-4-2 gets the shape, and thats rooneys role

If you are sure its not the case then play it and test it

 

[mrjack41]

I'd line up:

GK: VDS - Defend
RB - Rafael - Full back - Support
CB - Ferdinand - Central Defender - Cover
CB - Vidic - Central Defender - Stopper
LB - Evra - Wingback - Attack
RM - Nani - Winger - Attack (tweaked to inside forward settings)
CM - Fletcher - Centre mid - Defend
CM - Scholes - DLP - Support
LM - Park - Defensive Winger - Support
ST - Rooney - Complete Fwd - Support (Tweaked settings)
ST - Hernandez - Poacher

Philo - Fluid
Strategy - Standard

 

[Sid]

Fletcher is a great Box to Box from past experiences but other than that I agree with mrjack41 although i think both full backs should be the same position e.g both full backs or both wing backs

 

[donkarlito]

This is the average position

View attachment 162930

 

[Mike.]

that looks like 4-4-2 fluid, with exploit flanks shout.

the only way you will know is to actually test it

 

[donkarlito]

that looks like 4-4-2 fluid, with exploit flanks shout.

the only way you will know is to actually test it

will be tomorrow now tried a little test with wolfsburg the two CM mid stayed high up the pitch the tackler in midfield kept making runs into the box instead of holding his postion

 

[Mike.]

the cms dont hold their positions unless they DLPs

 

[donkarlito]

Giggs heat map

View attachment 162980

Giggs enters the oppositions box twice

Carrick heat map

View attachment 162981

Carrick never enters the oppositions box

Saying holding position is probably the wrong term being more positional disicplined is better

 

[Mike.]

so set them as DLP support, or DLP defend

 

[donkarlito]

so set them as DLP support, or DLP defend

Using control is better then attack at the Carrick is a bit more cautious in going forward 'll try using 2 DLP should Giggs be given a free role?

 

[Mike.]

told you it was fluid control. giggs doesnt have a free role