Help with tactic

[RonaldoReal9King]

Hi!

Here is the deal, im currently making a tactic that im not sure even can work in the game.

I have read a few guides and tips here and there and i got the idea of trying to make a tactic where the team will play counter but only when there is a REAL counter opportunity. When it looks like its not going to happen i want the team to relax and just play normal football. From what i have read makes me believe that this is possible. This is also how i have wanted my team to play since forever but never really knew how to do it because i have felt like it wasnt possible with the limited player team/player instructions.

What do you think about the roles and do you think that this style can even work?

Heres what the tactic looks like so far:

View attachment 213337

I think you understand it alittle bit better now that you se the setup. I basically want the entire team to defend like a unit and then when it looks like they can counter i want them to do so but NOT full on counter and force things. If they feel like they can play ball and keep some possession they should do that.
That is why i have "retain possession" ticked.
The reason why the mentality is "counter" is because i want that collective instruction for the whole team to know that they need to be behind the ball when the opponent has it (except for the striker maybe). I have tried this with "attacking" mentality and it does not work.

Having tried the tactic a bit i noticed a few problems though that i would like some help with.

The wingers for some odd reason will not make the runs, it happens allot that i myself can see a run opportunity but he just does not take it. Its very annoying and why dont the wingers have the instruction "move into channels"?? I dont know maybe thats a sure thing for wingers to move into channels maybe thats why? All i know is that they do not want to run, which is THE thing wingers should do so its just silly.

Another thing that i have problems with is players holding on to the ball for no reason at the byline. They get past their man i can see it with my own eyes but then for some reason he will hold on to the ball and let the defender catch up and THEN he will try to cross and of course fail.
This makes having overlapping fullbacks practically useless.



I dont know if these things are like this because of the ME being **** right now with it being beta and all but its very frustrating to see. If you say that they wont cross because i have "retain possession" ticked i will just stop playing this right now because there is no way in **** i should have to change a entire team instruction just so one player will understand that when you are past your man on the byline you look to take advantage of it.
I also feel like allot of people are using the same tactics that are proven to work without really doing anything to challange the game. The game will never reach its potential if you use the same thing as everyone else and are happy with the current state of the game.

 

[c0nk3r]

You may try"'Hit Early Crosses" to get your wingers to cross a little earlier. But looking at your formation, you may want at least 1 CM to get into the box to support your forward. Besides, you want a quick counterattack WITH overlapping fullbacks? Unless you've got Hector Bellerin at right back AND left back, it isn't possible. Overlap WILL cause your attack to slow down because players have to wait for the overlapping player to arrive. Play one CM as CM(a) to support your forward. And remove "Play out of Defence". That just slows things down.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

You may try"'Hit Early Crosses" to get your wingers to cross a little earlier. But looking at your formation, you may want at least 1 CM to get into the box to support your forward. Besides, you want a quick counterattack WITH overlapping fullbacks? Unless you've got Hector Bellerin at right back AND left back, it isn't possible. Overlap WILL cause your attack to slow down because players have to wait for the overlapping player to arrive. Play one CM as CM(a) to support your forward. And remove "Play out of Defence". That just slows things down.

What do you think about this setup then?

View attachment 213299
(the CM can be on attack duty i forgot to change it)
I dont really know how to use the striker though im thinking he should drop deeper to open space for the wingers but he might clog up the centre?
Also im afraid of the wingers not tracking back as well as in the first example.

UPDATE: Played a game with this setup just now and it went pretty well. The wingers tracked back pretty well, not as well as when they were ML/R but still pretty good. Won 4-2 vs a strong Boca Juniors side with the likes of Carlos Tevez and Fernando Gago. Both sides had allot of shots but allot of their shots were long range due to our defence being compact in own half just like i want it.
2 of out goals were in perticular satisfying especially the last one were it was a one touch through ball for the assisst.
Still not sure about the striker, he is just kind of there you know... doesnt feel important i dont know what to do with him... Might be one of those things were he is vital but its hard to see since he is not scoring much so he doesnt get high ratings.

 

[c0nk3r]

Looks almost identical to the formation I'm currently using

Let's start from the top.

1. STC
As a DLF(s), your striker will be dropping deep, holding up play, and attacking the box slightly later than usual.

2. AML
Your attacking winger will dribble his way to the byline to try to pick out a teammate with his crosses ASAP.

3. AMR
Your IF(s) will make runs in behind the defence late, he'd rather try a through ball or long shot as he cuts inside.

4. LCM
RPM will drift around looking for space, and probing the defence with through balls.

5. RCM
CM(a) will surge into the box when team is in possession in the final third, otherwise he will stay slightly in front of the RPM.

6. DMC
Anchorman will sit in front of the defence and, with his positional sense, attempt to snuff out dangerous through balls.

7. DL
FB(s) will get forward to support the midfielders, providing a passing option out wide. He won't venture too far forward, unless there's space down the flank for him.

8. DCL/R
CD(d) will hold a defensive line, and according to your TIs, will be more cautious about going in for the tackle.

9. DR
FB(a) will constantly push forward down the flank, offering support to midfielders as well as attackers. He will try to get crosses into the box ASAP.

10. GK
Uhh... Nothing to see here really.






Right, down to the texty bit.

Your winger will push high up the pitch, and since he's the only one on attack duty, he may be the highest one on the pitch. That means that when he's at the byline, there may be no one to cross to, because the DLF(s) and IF(s) will arrive slightly later due to a deeper starting position when you've successfully won the ball back.

Maybe play the winger with a support duty, and the other 2 in attack. What happens (theoretically) is that the winger will look for earlier crossing opportunities (especially when Hit Early Crosses is checked) that they will receive since they will try to get further forward with Attack duty.

Your midfield looks fine, maybe swap the RPM and CM(a), because the IF and CM(a) may make runs into the same space. Putting the CM(a) on the side of the winger may give the winger a near post option. Anchorman is what I use too, just make sure to use a midfielder with good Positioning and Anticipation.

Your DL as FB(s) looks fine, could even drop it to FB(d) against really hard opposition. DR as FB(a) is great too, especially with an IF(a). The IF will look to cut inside, so there will be plenty of space in the final third for the DR to bomb forward into. Just make sure it's not hurting you in defence, as the DR will be high up the pitch when you lose the ball. Check highlights, and put on support duty if you need to.

GK is GK. Not too complicated, I hope

Ok, there's my analysis. I'm far from the best tactics guru, but it seems to work for me, and seems logical as well. I suggest you read the guides posted in the sticky at the top of this sub-forum. Really useful stuff that's helped me a lot.

 

[c0nk3r]

Oops, just saw your edit. Well if the formation is working for you then there's no real need to change it up!

 

[WJ]

I think you understand it alittle bit better now that you se the setup. I basically want the entire team to defend like a unit and then when it looks like they can counter i want them to do so but NOT full on counter and force things. If they feel like they can play ball and keep some possession they should do that.
That is why i have "retain possession" ticked.
The reason why the mentality is "counter" is because i want that collective instruction for the whole team to know that they need to be behind the ball when the opponent has it (except for the striker maybe). I have tried this with "attacking" mentality and it does not work.

The mentality (Counter or Defensive) is the important part of the tactic. It's a low risk mentality. Players won't attempt many risky (as in, low risk of completion) passes. Same with shots, tackles, dribbles, runs from deep etc.

With that in mind, it's not really necessary to use Retain Possession etc as it isn't really necessary.

When a counter is on though, the first paragraph won't apply. Players will surge forward. The tempo will be maxed. You'll see them take more risks. It'll be a proper counter attack.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

Looks almost identical to the formation I'm currently using

Let's start from the top.

1. STC
As a DLF(s), your striker will be dropping deep, holding up play, and attacking the box slightly later than usual.

2. AML
Your attacking winger will dribble his way to the byline to try to pick out a teammate with his crosses ASAP.

3. AMR
Your IF(s) will make runs in behind the defence late, he'd rather try a through ball or long shot as he cuts inside.

4. LCM
RPM will drift around looking for space, and probing the defence with through balls.

5. RCM
CM(a) will surge into the box when team is in possession in the final third, otherwise he will stay slightly in front of the RPM.

6. DMC
Anchorman will sit in front of the defence and, with his positional sense, attempt to snuff out dangerous through balls.

7. DL
FB(s) will get forward to support the midfielders, providing a passing option out wide. He won't venture too far forward, unless there's space down the flank for him.

8. DCL/R
CD(d) will hold a defensive line, and according to your TIs, will be more cautious about going in for the tackle.

9. DR
FB(a) will constantly push forward down the flank, offering support to midfielders as well as attackers. He will try to get crosses into the box ASAP.

10. GK
Uhh... Nothing to see here really.






Right, down to the texty bit.

Your winger will push high up the pitch, and since he's the only one on attack duty, he may be the highest one on the pitch. That means that when he's at the byline, there may be no one to cross to, because the DLF(s) and IF(s) will arrive slightly later due to a deeper starting position when you've successfully won the ball back.

Maybe play the winger with a support duty, and the other 2 in attack. What happens (theoretically) is that the winger will look for earlier crossing opportunities (especially when Hit Early Crosses is checked) that they will receive since they will try to get further forward with Attack duty.

Your midfield looks fine, maybe swap the RPM and CM(a), because the IF and CM(a) may make runs into the same space. Putting the CM(a) on the side of the winger may give the winger a near post option. Anchorman is what I use too, just make sure to use a midfielder with good Positioning and Anticipation.

Your DL as FB(s) looks fine, could even drop it to FB(d) against really hard opposition. DR as FB(a) is great too, especially with an IF(a). The IF will look to cut inside, so there will be plenty of space in the final third for the DR to bomb forward into. Just make sure it's not hurting you in defence, as the DR will be high up the pitch when you lose the ball. Check highlights, and put on support duty if you need to.

GK is GK. Not too complicated, I hope

Ok, there's my analysis. I'm far from the best tactics guru, but it seems to work for me, and seems logical as well. I suggest you read the guides posted in the sticky at the top of this sub-forum. Really useful stuff that's helped me a lot.

Thats a nice analysis and i will take your suggestions into consideration. I will tweak the tactic allot in the first season since im Playing with Real Sociedad and the expectations are not really all that high with the league expectation being top half. Will probably post a few things on here when i run into problems or need some more suggestions. Thank you!

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

The mentality (Counter or Defensive) is the important part of the tactic. It's a low risk mentality. Players won't attempt many risky (as in, low risk of completion) passes. Same with shots, tackles, dribbles, runs from deep etc.

With that in mind, it's not really necessary to use Retain Possession etc as it isn't really necessary.

When a counter is on though, the first paragraph won't apply. Players will surge forward. The tempo will be maxed. You'll see them take more risks. It'll be a proper counter attack.

I will try with "retain possession" unticked and see how it goes. I really want the team to have some possession when they can though. I dont want that ultra defensive route one counter play where the opponents have 60%+ possession.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

I give up, its not possible to play like this in this game. What i want is for the team to play like real madrid where they will go for a fast counter where its possible but to stay in control when there is no counter possibility. Its not possible to play like this in this game. I tried but seems like "counter" means the players will just hoof the ball up field and hope for the best no matter what you do to their instructions. The tactic is pretty much 100% fluid now but it just does not work. Going with counter mentality they just hoof the ball mindlessly and going attacking mentality they wont stay in control.
I have decent passing players with atleast 15 passing and vision but it doesnt matter, i could have the best passers and it wouldnt work.
Guess i once again have to play the same old stuff everyone else uses to be successful in FM.

 

[WJ]

Counter attacking has received some attention for ME1624 (midway through the Beta) so if you're struggling - it's you, not the game. A poor tactic can be fluid, but still poor.

Rather than a pointless rant, supply info and you can be advised.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

The most frustrating thing about this whole thing is how there are guides where the author writes pages upon pages about what you "need" and draws comparison to real life football etc and there you are reading thinking you are on your way to creating a great tactic. Then you go into the "share tactics" threads on different sites and find that allot of the tactics dont use anything that those guides are telling you. There are just a bunch of tactics that exploit faults in the ME. Its not about creating a tactic where you actually think about how it would work in real life, you are just basically looking for errors in the ME and adjusting your tactic so that you can exploit those errors. For gods sake i just saw a tactic where he had every single player except the back line as creators/playmakers with not a single one of them being on defend duty and yet people are saying it works well somehow.

 

[WJ]

The most frustrating thing about this whole thing is how there are guides where the author writes pages upon pages about what you "need" and draws comparison to real life football etc and there you are reading thinking you are on your way to creating a great tactic. Then you go into the "share tactics" threads on different sites and find that allot of the tactics dont use anything that those guides are telling you. There are just a bunch of tactics that exploit faults in the ME. Its not about creating a tactic where you actually think about how it would work in real life, you are just basically looking for errors in the ME and adjusting your tactic so that you can exploit those errors. For gods sake i just saw a tactic where he had every single player except the back line as creators/playmakers with not a single one of them being on defend duty and yet people are saying it works well somehow.

Don't go to the Share Tactic sections then? The ME isn't and will never be perfect. Those tactics exploit flaws in the ME, which means they're are quite possibly useless when the next update lands. They don't function based on real life logic.

The guides function on real life logic and as long as you use some logic yourself, you'll do well in any version with the same tactic.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

View attachment 211485

Is this a tactic that could work well? Do you see any major mistakes?
The aim is to create allot of movement in the attack to confuse.
Would it leak to much at the back?

 

[WJ]

I very much doubt that weird setup will do well, but why don't you try it? Surely you created with a specific vision in mind? See if it is doing what you want.

 

[RonaldoReal9King]

Well the aim is to be unpredictable and offer several options in attack. The F9 drops and creates space for the IF as the CWB overlaps down the wing. The Wide AP drifts to the middle and creates space for the winger. I tried it in an important game vs Valencia just now and won 2-1, it did what i wanted in glimpses but the tactic is nowhere near fluid. I will give it a go why not since i have tried everything else. I have seen many tactics that on the tactic creator look weird but people say work well.