Incredibly inconsistent results

[SmoothJitsu]

What's up FM-Base, after barely playing FM16, i got the new FM a couple days ago, and the first thing i wanted to do was a 3 at the back formation, thanks to Antonio Conte's success with it at Chelsea, now i'm not trying to replicate it or anything.
But i've been having very inconsistent results, either i demolish teams, or my players are simply happy to shoot it from distance (even though i have work ball into the box ticked and almost every player has the Shoot less often instruction)

The Tactic

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As far as PI's my Wide Mids have Stay Wider, Run Wide with Ball and Cross from Byline
All players from Midfield and Attack have Shoot Less Often

Results

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I think i might have problems opening up teams who defend lower and tighter, because all my players seem to be long shot happy on those games, and yes i realize i should maybe untick dribble less and play narrower but the problem is that both are needed, if they're unticked all my players do are pointless runs with the ball. and without play narrower, there's too much space between my players, support is too far and it leads to some mistakes.

 

[Bigpapa42]

The pointless long shots happen when there are a lack of available passing options. That is probably down to two factors. One, having the passing set so short - you have effectively narrowed the available options to a much shorter window around the player on the ball. Retain possession TI makes it even worse. The second factor is that you don't have a lot of runners. There isn't a significant amount of movement between the lines. Your two wide players will move but they won't track too deep and they are on support, so they won't attack gung ho. The BBM moves. The DLP doesn't. The trequarista is fairly static. And the AF won't move a ton, and he may be getting marked out of games by the opposition line.

How does it play with those player roles but without all of the TIs?

 

[SmoothJitsu]

The pointless long shots happen when there are a lack of available passing options. That is probably down to two factors. One, having the passing set so short - you have effectively narrowed the available options to a much shorter window around the player on the ball. Retain possession TI makes it even worse. The second factor is that you don't have a lot of runners. There isn't a significant amount of movement between the lines. Your two wide players will move but they won't track too deep and they are on support, so they won't attack gung ho. The BBM moves. The DLP doesn't. The trequarista is fairly static. And the AF won't move a ton, and he may be getting marked out of games by the opposition line.

How does it play with those player roles but without all of the TIs?

I started playing with only 2 or 3 TI's and began adding them as i saw fit and the team improved, but there are games where all i do is long shot after long shot, and yes like you said it's most of the time due to a lack of passing options. But i'm not sure i should put my wide players on attack as they also need to protect the flanks, i'll change the roles of the Treq and the AF and maybe untick Retain Possesion to see where it leads the tactic

 

[Bigpapa42]

Were you finding the players would bash aimless passes long distance if you left it on Mixed Passing? That might help with some vertically penetrating passes, which may open things up and avoid those long shots.

I don't know that switching the only wide players onto attack is a solution at all, but that might explain why they aren't consistently passing options, and why the BBM, Treq, DLP or one of the forwards is sometimes left isolated with few passing options. Some options are marked, others are simply too far away based on the passing range.

My recommendation would be remove Retain Possession, put Passing back up to Mixed, and toy around with some different roles. But I think the Passing range will make a difference.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

Were you finding the players would bash aimless passes long distance if you left it on Mixed Passing? That might help with some vertically penetrating passes, which may open things up and avoid those long shots.

I don't know that switching the only wide players onto attack is a solution at all, but that might explain why they aren't consistently passing options, and why the BBM, Treq, DLP or one of the forwards is sometimes left isolated with few passing options. Some options are marked, others are simply too far away based on the passing range.

My recommendation would be remove Retain Possession, put Passing back up to Mixed, and toy around with some different roles. But I think the Passing range will make a difference.

Took out retain possesion and changed the Treq to AP on attack, also changed the AF to a poacher and the DF to a CF on support. they still shoot from long distance a lot and even when there are passing options available

 

[Bigpapa42]

Did you adjust the Passing length from the shortest possible option? That's likely part of the problem too, not just the Retain Possession TI. Its not just about passing options being available, but ones that fit within the band of what you've told them to look. They might have a wide open teammate 15 yards away but if you've told them to pass 10 or less only....

 

[SmoothJitsu]

Did you adjust the Passing length from the shortest possible option? That's likely part of the problem too, not just the Retain Possession TI. Its not just about passing options being available, but ones that fit within the band of what you've told them to look. They might have a wide open teammate 15 yards away but if you've told them to pass 10 or less only....

now playing again with original TI's but playing with 2 Box to Box's (i usually don't like playing with no player on a holding role in midfield) with an AM on attack a Defensive Forward and a F9 both on support, some seriously gorgeous ball movement and goals but still inconsistent, but long shots are decreasing.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

Did you adjust the Passing length from the shortest possible option? That's likely part of the problem too, not just the Retain Possession TI. Its not just about passing options being available, but ones that fit within the band of what you've told them to look. They might have a wide open teammate 15 yards away but if you've told them to pass 10 or less only....

WHY ARE YOU SHOOTING ALONSO??

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Dude has the instruction to go to the byline and cross, has 2 guys in the box and 2 other guys going into the box, and decides to shoot. i mean this must be a bug right?
Nothing i can do if players are idiots, this happens A LOT!

 

[ukrampaiger]

It's just awful. Leading 4-0 at the 70th minute, when the AI decide to nuke me harder than Hiroshima and draw 4-4. Even when I switched to contain, and waste time.

Sent from my Kestrel using Tapatalk

 

[WJ]

Dude has the instruction to go to the byline and cross

Has he?

You said he has instructions to run wide with the ball (from the first post) and to cross from the byline, which doesn't ask a player to cross more, just where from. You tell your players through TIs to cross less though and AFAIK (without having the game open now) a WM by default doesn't have crossing set to often, so currently then your WMs won't cross at all or "rarely" in old FM terms.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

Has he?

You said he has instructions to run wide with the ball (from the first post) and to cross from the byline, which doesn't ask a player to cross more, just where from. You tell your players through TIs to cross less though and AFAIK (without having the game open now) a WM by default doesn't have crossing set to often, so currently then your WMs won't cross at all or "rarely" in old FM terms.

Gonna tick the cross more often instruction.But the fact is too many long shots are attempted in situations that don't call for it . I literally had a 3 on 1 break and what does Oscar decides to do? Shoot the ball from 30 yards out.

Also come on like any player would shoot a VOLLEY from there. I'm sure it happens from time to time, but in this game it happens all the time

 

[Bullardinho]

I agree with you to a certain extent, I do find that sometimes players are taking shots from ridiculous distances/angles despite instructions, but I think all in all the ME has improved. I find players are following instructions much more in FM17 then previous years.

I think your title is a little over exaggerated though, I mean the results you have shown are poor, but just look at Man City’s form this season for example, sometimes beating teams for fun and sometimes they lose to the likes of Middlesbrough despite almost near domination, from memory there were a few wayward long shots in that game as well. So you could argue the game is realistic in respect of the results you are seeing.

Also what is your teams tactical familiarity? It sounds like you have made a lot of changes in a short space of time, the team needs consistency in a tactic and instructions before they start to show on the pitch.

 

[Bigpapa42]

If you genuinely believe its a bug, upload some PMKs and make a thread on SI. If you want it fixed, that's what needs to be done. I have a feeling its more tactically settings, but that would let them let you know.

I know the image is just one example, but how is crossing from that point a good idea? He's being closed down (still has some space), and he has two targets that are very closely marked. A cross is hopeful speculation at best at this point. Moyes-at-United type of football. And even if he had waited until closer to the byline to cross, he would likely have less space to make the cross, and at most 4 targets with 6 opposition players in the box. Again, low percentage play. Unless you have adjusted your passing length, he can't pass to anyone from there. A shot is a bad, low-percentage choice. But so are his other options.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

I agree with you to a certain extent, I do find that sometimes players are taking shots from ridiculous distances/angles despite instructions, but I think all in all the ME has improved. I find players are following instructions much more in FM17 then previous years. I think your title is a little over exaggerated though, I mean the results you have shown are poor, but just look at Man City’s form this season for example, sometimes beating teams for fun and sometimes they lose to the likes of Middlesbrough despite almost near domination, from memory there were a few wayward long shots in that game as well. So you could argue the game is realistic in respect of the results you are seeing. Also what is your teams tactical familiarity? It sounds like you have made a lot of changes in a short space of time, the team needs consistency in a tactic and instructions before they start to show on the pitch.

Tactical familiarity is at the maximum. i never change too much at once, never more than 2 instructions. i have tried with a 4-2-3-1 but they still keep shooting from distance it's honestly annoying. it seems like everything i do will have the samew result. 12 long shots a game 0 clear cut chances

 

[mih3y]

Has he?

You said he has instructions to run wide with the ball (from the first post) and to cross from the byline, which doesn't ask a player to cross more, just where from. You tell your players through TIs to cross less though and AFAIK (without having the game open now) a WM by default doesn't have crossing set to often, so currently then your WMs won't cross at all or "rarely" in old FM terms.

I've registered only to say - i have exactly she same problem. Got very talanted young players with good vision/passing/decisons. Playing a diamond with 2 false 9 and 2 CM on Attack +AP . I have lots of options when attacking, but yet my players are shooting from outside the box and impossible angles. Obviously "shoot less often" is an instruction for all of them. short/mixed passing all the same really.

 

[WJ]

Gonna tick the cross more often instruction.But the fact is too many long shots are attempted in situations that don't call for it . I literally had a 3 on 1 break and what does Oscar decides to do? Shoot the ball from 30 yards out.

Also come on like any player would shoot a VOLLEY from there. I'm sure it happens from time to time, but in this game it happens all the time

I didn't make an excuse for the shot. I just pointed out the fact that you want him to cross, but then specifically instructed him not to, so he will not cross at all.

I've registered only to say - i have exactly she same problem. Got very talanted young players with good vision/passing/decisons. Playing a diamond with 2 false 9 and 2 CM on Attack +AP . I have lots of options when attacking, but yet my players are shooting from outside the box and impossible angles. Obviously "shoot less often" is an instruction for all of them. short/mixed passing all the same really.

No idea why you're quoting me.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

I agree with you to a certain extent, I do find that sometimes players are taking shots from ridiculous distances/angles despite instructions, but I think all in all the ME has improved. I find players are following instructions much more in FM17 then previous years.

I think your title is a little over exaggerated though, I mean the results you have shown are poor, but just look at Man City’s form this season for example, sometimes beating teams for fun and sometimes they lose to the likes of Middlesbrough despite almost near domination, from memory there were a few wayward long shots in that game as well. So you could argue the game is realistic in respect of the results you are seeing.

Also what is your teams tactical familiarity? It sounds like you have made a lot of changes in a short space of time, the team needs consistency in a tactic and instructions before they start to show on the pitch.

I'm liking the engine this year. but i'm at a point where these long shots are so frustrating that everything that goes wrong (even the tiniest things) is getting to me. But the tactic works well it's just that stupid long shots are costing me opportunities to score

 

[mih3y]

I didn't make an excuse for the shot. I just pointed out the fact that you want him to cross, but then specifically instructed him not to, so he will not cross at all.



No idea why you're quoting me.

No Idea mate. haha

 

[SmoothJitsu]

If you genuinely believe its a bug, upload some PMKs and make a thread on SI. If you want it fixed, that's what needs to be done. I have a feeling its more tactically settings, but that would let them let you know.

I know the image is just one example, but how is crossing from that point a good idea? He's being closed down (still has some space), and he has two targets that are very closely marked. A cross is hopeful speculation at best at this point. Moyes-at-United type of football. And even if he had waited until closer to the byline to cross, he would likely have less space to make the cross, and at most 4 targets with 6 opposition players in the box. Again, low percentage play. Unless you have adjusted your passing length, he can't pass to anyone from there. A shot is a bad, low-percentage choice. But so are his other options.

Sorry to continuosly reply to you but you're one trying to help here,so for that i thank you.
Overall the tactic is working well since i've changed to 2 box to box mids, i change it top counter on harder away games and those are the games i honestly look more dangerous.
how would you rate this ?

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61 chances created to 36 conceded, considering that i'm Chelsea. What is a good ratio this year?

Also Kurt Zouma is the GOAT of FM2017, he simply doesn't not know how to have a bad game

 

[Bigpapa42]

No problem.

Just a theory here but if you are struggling a bit in games where you are favored, you might be getting Arsenal'd a bit. Basically teams that you are expected to beat park the bus and make it really hard for you to break thru. They have almost the entire squad back defending and its hard to find passing lanes. Having a player with the ball around the edge of the box and no clear passing lanes to teammates within their passing range circle may just end up blasting it at goal. That may be the cause of some of those long shots. You are using a reasonable aggressive attacking approach (Control) and a fairly high line, so you are compressing the opposition back. Its just sometimes hard to get thru. The solution is typically a bit counter-intuitive. While you could just go more extreme with some I instructions to try to create movement, runners, lanes, etc.... Or you can drop the mentality. Going down to Standard or even Counter will have you playing a bit deeper, drawing the opposition out and allowing your players the space they need to create proper scoring chances.

Edit - as for the shots on goal ratio... Its hard to say as there's no context. One or two matches can throw that off either way. its really down to the quality of shots you are creating versus giving up. Much like its annoying when our team is bombing long shots, its rather harmless if that's all the opposition gets to do. But it can throw the numbers off.