Moving possession upfield

[thundyr]

How can I turn a surplus of possession on the center spot to a surplus of possession on the edge of the opposition 18-yard area? My team does a decent job of getting and keeping possession, but it does not result in many shots on goal that are not from downtown. I tend to get about 10 'action shots' per game, and most of them are my opponent's banging away at my goal.

Where should I start to look for problems with the setup? I have tried to follow the TT&F, but it seems the more I read the worse my team performs, so there's something fundamental that I don't understand, and I feel downloading a cookie cutter tactic is not going to help clarify things because I won't understand why it's set the way it is. I want to learn how to play this game, not watch someone else do it for me.

Basically I started with the TT&F crib sheet (and reading the blurb obviously so it made some kind of sense) to make a 4-4-2 team. Playing Liverpool, so set Gerrard as MCa, Torres as FCd and Keirison as FCa. 2 side midfielders as attackers, 2 full backs as attackers, MCd and DCs as defense. Mentality graded from 8-15 (role based), defensive line set to 11. Closing down also on a gradient as per the TT&F suggestions (for some reason this means Kuyt should tackle their striker in our area so when we counter after their attack breaks down we have no one in their half, so we just give possession away again). Counter attack and offside are both unchecked. No target man or play maker. Result? Beat awful teams like Brann, draw with bad ones like Middlesborough, and lose badly against anyone else. If I have 5 attacking players and Gerrard with a Free Role behind Torres with a Free Role, why do I get less than 10% possession in the final third of the pitch in games where I dominate possession? How many directions do they need to find the goal? If I make the FBs support players, the problem doesn't go away - I just get more useless possession in my half of the field!

Thanks
r
-- Torres eats them

 

[gregsta]

Try changing the roles of your fullbacks to a more supportive role, the same for the wingers. ie

Forward runs - Mixed
Run With Ball - Mixed
Long Shots- Often
Through Balls Often
Cross Mixed
Cross From Mixed

This way they are defending when needed and offering options for attack when you have the ball.
Hopefully that helps

 

[Zebedee]

Try speeding up the tempo a little bit. Role Theory relies on short, fast interchanges of passing to work properly. Not having counter-attack turned on means that your team will look to retain possession when they get it, which is fine when you want to control possession but it does also mean that when you move to attack the opposition defence has had time to reset and get back into position. Also consider increasing creative freedom for players who are designated as attackers, and perhaps consider increasing width for variants which are more attacking so that you stretch defences a little more. I'd take the free role away from Torres - and to be honest, I'd question whether playing him as the deeper striker really suits his attributes - eg when he does it for Spain so Villa can play FCa, he's nowhere near as effective as when he's up front on his own for Liverpool. In any case, free roles on STs don't particularly work well. Give them to players rated AM(whatever) and FC as a general rule.

Part of the problem you're also facing is that the 'classic' 4-4-2 is tactically outclassed now by teams playing 4-2-3-1. So you'll find it very hard to get through the oppositions 5 man midfield, meaning Torres will drop deeper and deeper to get possession (especially with a free role), which will mean your striker up top won't have any support even if the ball does get to him and the opposition will just pick his pocket all day.

Kuyt's tracking back that far because he has ludicrous workrate and teamwork attributes. That's the type of player he is. If you want a player who'll stay up the pitch and act as an outlet, try looking at Cristiano Ronaldo's attributes and find someone who is more of that kind of player

 

[SaintSinner]

i always prefer playing with a attacking wing back rather a steady fullback. that will give you more width and chances. getting a DM will barricade somewhat of opposition attack as you will get more vulnerable to conceed goals.

 

[thundyr]

Thanks for the fantastic feedback, guys!

I have changed things around now, having discovered that playing 4-2-3-1 gives me a better structure in general. I usually play wing backs in the FB positions (Dossena and Santon) and set them as attackers. Playing Torres as a lone gun upfront was amazing early season (14 goals in 15 games), but in his last 15 performances in the league he's produced just one goal and has decided that shooting from the center circle is the way to go. Gerrard is now averaging in the low 6's as well (from 7.4)! My overall results have been very good (leading the premiership by 9 points in Feb), so I'm not complaining, but I really struggle whenever I play Arsenal. Lost badly both home and away in the league (my only defeats), and lost 4-3 at the Emirates in the League Cup semi's, but managed to scrape a win at home thanks to a handy red card.

But my problems vs Arsenal have been a general issue of late. I'm now the team with little possession, and we really struggle most days to beat the sides propping up the table (many 1-0s and only because the opposition finishing has been terrible - should have lost to Chelsea but they had two players sent off in the last 20 minutes). Sammy Lee's brilliant feedback is "we are not keeping possession well" rather than why (no comments on crossing, passing or tackling). Should I revert to 4 players in the middle (4-4-1-1)?

Also, many of the players go into a 'I have the ball but have no idea what to do with it' mode, despite passes square and on the diagonal, so they lose the ball and then we have a scare at the goal (Reina has been huge all season). What's going on there?

Any tips?

I am also very confused by set pieces. I have Throw Ins set to short and have a player set to 'go short' on both sides, but they throw it long and give the ball away all the time. Same for my keeper - 'defender collect' or 'quick throw' apparently means 'kick long'. I don't get it. Free kicks set to long means we tap the ball to the guy disrupting the wall, unless we instead choose to curve the ball the wrong way around the wall (ie aim left of the wall with a strike that curves further left). Are there settings I'm not using? I have both Balotelli and Fernandez in my team with 18+ in free kicks, and I've scored all of twice in 7 months (including the 46 free kick game against Stoke where a good 15 were 'highlights' and each one utterly dismal - two outside the 6 yard box!).

Thanks again!

 

[Zebedee]

I think you're discovering that one tactic won't work forever.

What's happening is that team's are 'adapting' how to play against you. 'Not keeping possession' generally means that you're passing it too quickly or too long against deep defences or too short against high line defences (hence Torres trying the spectacular because he can't get through any more). Slow it down a bit and alter the passing A clear sign that passing is wrong is when players are just punting it away. Lots of 1-0 losses against weaker teams is generally a sign that you are attacking ineffectively and getting done on the break.

The best way to judge what's going wrong is to watch the game in full. Have a look at the TT&F's match theory section and the control variant. That's the kind of structure to your tactics you need against teams which are very defensive and playing on the break.

No idea on set-piece instructions, never been something I do well. I just leave things on default in the main and trust my players to do something useful.

 

[thundyr]

*nod* Makes sense. Will give it a bash.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was yesterday at 07:27 PM ----------

Just some feedback. I've switched for a more direct passing game, one notch lower tempo and one notch wider. The result has been a far more even tussle for possession, but Torres went completely off the boil and started averaging 6.1! I realized his passing set incorrectly, but that made no difference to his overall performance. Even the board wasn't happy with how I'm handling him. I was 1-0 down at half time in the League Cup final (thanks entirely to Reina and Fernandez, who rocks with the same settings that Gerrard sucks at) vs Man City. Torres was astounding the fans with a performance of 5.7, and I decided I needed to fix him somehow. So I increased his mentality one notch, and decided to give him 5-10 minutes to see if he got into the game. I did not really want to have to sub him, because Keirison has been even worse all season. He scored twice in the second half and we won the cup! The next game was a premiership match away to Villa and he scored a hat-trick in 65 minutes. He's back averaging 7.3 now. Just in time too, because I play Man United 3 times and Everton twice in 14 days next month.

The wonders of mentality.

 

[azabh50]

u know when u look through the match to see where ur tactics are goin wrong would u watch the whole match or just the highlights?

 

[Zebedee]

*nod* Makes sense. Will give it a bash.

---------- Post added at 01:45 PM ---------- Previous post was yesterday at 07:27 PM ----------

Just some feedback. I've switched for a more direct passing game, one notch lower tempo and one notch wider. The result has been a far more even tussle for possession, but Torres went completely off the boil and started averaging 6.1! I realized his passing set incorrectly, but that made no difference to his overall performance. Even the board wasn't happy with how I'm handling him. I was 1-0 down at half time in the League Cup final (thanks entirely to Reina and Fernandez, who rocks with the same settings that Gerrard sucks at) vs Man City. Torres was astounding the fans with a performance of 5.7, and I decided I needed to fix him somehow. So I increased his mentality one notch, and decided to give him 5-10 minutes to see if he got into the game. I did not really want to have to sub him, because Keirison has been even worse all season. He scored twice in the second half and we won the cup! The next game was a premiership match away to Villa and he scored a hat-trick in 65 minutes. He's back averaging 7.3 now. Just in time too, because I play Man United 3 times and Everton twice in 14 days next month.

The wonders of mentality.

That sounds about right, there certainly is very, very fine lines between 'massive' success and 'massive' failure in tactics now. Tiny shifts can make a huge difference. Give it a few weeks/months and the opposition's defensive line will shift again, and you'll be back to tweaking Torres It's hard to narrow things down at times because everything is so inter-related (the right team talk + wrong tactics can sometimes give the same result as the wrong team talk + right tactics etc). Pushing Torres up that one notch of mentality has probably made him push more onto the shoulder of the last defender making your direct passing and extra width pay off even more for the moment until it is countered.

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@azabh50 - I think you have to learn to 'read' the game. By that I mean learn to appreciate why things aren't working and then change them. So I watch full match at the moment because I'm trying something a bit new out and want to understand what can cause it to fail and learn how to fix it. Once I'm satisfied I can cover most situations I'll switch back to extended highlights and then only go back into full if things aren't working out as well as they should be.