PA system, looking for explanation

[zvers]

OK, so I just started playing my first manager game since 01/02. Have played a bit into fourth season now. I've started to read (this forum) about the CA and PA system, with star ratings and so on. But I don't understand it fully. I have a few questions which I have built up as cases. My assistant manager who I believe make the star ratings has 20 in judging potential ability.

1) I have a player with CA 3 stars and PA also 3 stars, 22y. Does that mean that he has reached his maximum potential whatsoever in the whole game? Or does it mean that he has reached his maximum potential at my club, but could reach higher elsewhere (with better coaches / more playing time / whatever)? If the latter, am I as smart as I think in trying to sell this player - because other teams might assume he can still reach a higher level?

2) Do talents lose their talent, or does the talent just temporary fade? For example Mbappe which I assume to be a big talent when the game starts. My scouts already early on pointed him out as one of the greatest talents. 4 golden stars and the fifth in black. So in first season he was a great talent with huge potential, that's no rocket science. But he has been loaned to PL and even CH clubs sometimes even without playing time almost every year, and now in fourth season he is listed for bargain price (around 15M Euro). His 0-20 stats are not that impressing either. But he is still young, and he HAD a great potential once upon a time. My best scout (19/20) has scouted him and now he is 3 golden and only a fourth black star. So... Has his potential "decided" for a lower top level than originally? Or has he just not yet shown signs of his great potential due to bad training facilities? Can he still reach the skies if a club with the best facilities snatches him? Or should I look elsewhere for 4 golden and the 5 black?

3) The wondered phenomenon. I can't get hold of it. I have Locatelli, 3 stars golden and 3-4 black. Wonderkid. On the other hand I have Pinamonti. Also 3 stars golden but 4-5 black. Just "ambitious striker" or something like that. What is worth the most? The black starts potential? The wonderkid status? The big clubs want Locatelli for around 35-40M, why shouldn't I let him loose? He will never be one of the best in game with only 4 potential...Or?

4) Finally I wonder how I can see my own players potential ability as clearly as possible. Almost all of my young players have at least one black star in the potential ability. Even though they have played for my club for 3 whole seasons. Only my new signings Bazoer (Wolfsburg) and Sané (City) arrived with already 4.5 golden stars potential and no black (because I scouted them properly? because they are already world known players?). Even my own players have these black stars all the time! Confusing not knowing who to keep and who to pass forwards. Is there a shortcut to more knowledge of my own players potential?

I have more questions, but let's keep it to these before I get way to confused my self =)

 

[dilakh2]

OK, so I just started playing my first manager game since 01/02. Have played a bit into fourth season now. I've started to read (this forum) about the CA and PA system, with star ratings and so on. But I don't understand it fully. I have a few questions which I have built up as cases. My assistant manager who I believe make the star ratings has 20 in judging potential ability.

1) I have a player with CA 3 stars and PA also 3 stars, 22y. Does that mean that he has reached his maximum potential whatsoever in the whole game? Or does it mean that he has reached his maximum potential at my club, but could reach higher elsewhere (with better coaches / more playing time / whatever)? If the latter, am I as smart as I think in trying to sell this player - because other teams might assume he can still reach a higher level?

2) Do talents lose their talent, or does the talent just temporary fade? For example Mbappe which I assume to be a big talent when the game starts. My scouts already early on pointed him out as one of the greatest talents. 4 golden stars and the fifth in black. So in first season he was a great talent with huge potential, that's no rocket science. But he has been loaned to PL and even CH clubs sometimes even without playing time almost every year, and now in fourth season he is listed for bargain price (around 15M Euro). His 0-20 stats are not that impressing either. But he is still young, and he HAD a great potential once upon a time. My best scout (19/20) has scouted him and now he is 3 golden and only a fourth black star. So... Has his potential "decided" for a lower top level than originally? Or has he just not yet shown signs of his great potential due to bad training facilities? Can he still reach the skies if a club with the best facilities snatches him? Or should I look elsewhere for 4 golden and the 5 black?

3) The wondered phenomenon. I can't get hold of it. I have Locatelli, 3 stars golden and 3-4 black. Wonderkid. On the other hand I have Pinamonti. Also 3 stars golden but 4-5 black. Just "ambitious striker" or something like that. What is worth the most? The black starts potential? The wonderkid status? The big clubs want Locatelli for around 35-40M, why shouldn't I let him loose? He will never be one of the best in game with only 4 potential...Or?

4) Finally I wonder how I can see my own players potential ability as clearly as possible. Almost all of my young players have at least one black star in the potential ability. Even though they have played for my club for 3 whole seasons. Only my new signings Bazoer (Wolfsburg) and Sané (City) arrived with already 4.5 golden stars potential and no black (because I scouted them properly? because they are already world known players?). Even my own players have these black stars all the time! Confusing not knowing who to keep and who to pass forwards. Is there a shortcut to more knowledge of my own players potential?

I have more questions, but let's keep it to these before I get way to confused my self =)

Think you've asked the same question but separated into 4 parts lol quite confusing but i'll takea stab at it. The PA is a set number between 0-200 so if a player has a PA of 174 he cannot be better than that. Obviously the higher the number the better the player will be. If coaches or scouts are saying the player has 4 star potential at your club than its taking into account if he can be better than the current players at the club. So if he's potential rating drops to 3 stars then it means you have better players at you're club now. That's why a league 1 player will have a higher star rating in league 2 but if you pluck him into a championship team it wont be as high. Having a coach or a scout with a higher stat in judging player potential or actual ability will give you a more accurate star potential rating. I hope i answered your question mate.

 

[WJ]

OK, so I just started playing my first manager game since 01/02. Have played a bit into fourth season now. I've started to read (this forum) about the CA and PA system, with star ratings and so on. But I don't understand it fully. I have a few questions which I have built up as cases. My assistant manager who I believe make the star ratings has 20 in judging potential ability.

Keep in mind that even with 20 JPP, he can still be wrong. No member of staff is 100% accurate all the time.

1) I have a player with CA 3 stars and PA also 3 stars, 22y. Does that mean that he has reached his maximum potential whatsoever in the whole game? Or does it mean that he has reached his maximum potential at my club, but could reach higher elsewhere (with better coaches / more playing time / whatever)? If the latter, am I as smart as I think in trying to sell this player - because other teams might assume he can still reach a higher level?

It means that, according to your assistant, he has reached his potential. He is as good as he'll ever be - according to your assistant. You can't exceed your potential.

2) Do talents lose their talent, or does the talent just temporary fade? For example Mbappe which I assume to be a big talent when the game starts. My scouts already early on pointed him out as one of the greatest talents. 4 golden stars and the fifth in black. So in first season he was a great talent with huge potential, that's no rocket science. But he has been loaned to PL and even CH clubs sometimes even without playing time almost every year, and now in fourth season he is listed for bargain price (around 15M Euro). His 0-20 stats are not that impressing either. But he is still young, and he HAD a great potential once upon a time. My best scout (19/20) has scouted him and now he is 3 golden and only a fourth black star. So... Has his potential "decided" for a lower top level than originally? Or has he just not yet shown signs of his great potential due to bad training facilities? Can he still reach the skies if a club with the best facilities snatches him? Or should I look elsewhere for 4 golden and the 5 black?

It could be anything. It could be that the scout was wrong in the first place or that your scout now is wrong.

Or both could be right. I don't know his age, but it may be that your scout feels that he now isn't likely to reach his potential, so getting rated lower, based on his age.

3) The wondered phenomenon. I can't get hold of it. I have Locatelli, 3 stars golden and 3-4 black. Wonderkid. On the other hand I have Pinamonti. Also 3 stars golden but 4-5 black. Just "ambitious striker" or something like that. What is worth the most? The black starts potential? The wonderkid status? The big clubs want Locatelli for around 35-40M, why shouldn't I let him loose? He will never be one of the best in game with only 4 potential...Or?

People really get caught up with this "wonderkid" status. It annoys me. A wonderkid is simply a young player with a high CA. It has nothing to do with his potential.

You will need to use your own judgement here. Nothing you mentioned is an indicator that one will be better than the other. It's the same dilemma real life managers have. In your case, it is entirely possible that Pinamonti could be better, with that 5th black star, but black stars are just uncertainty, so no guarantee of anything. Either Locatelli or Pinamonti could have only 3 star potential - it's impossible to tell.

4) Finally I wonder how I can see my own players potential ability as clearly as possible. Almost all of my young players have at least one black star in the potential ability. Even though they have played for my club for 3 whole seasons. Only my new signings Bazoer (Wolfsburg) and Sané (City) arrived with already 4.5 golden stars potential and no black (because I scouted them properly? because they are already world known players?). Even my own players have these black stars all the time! Confusing not knowing who to keep and who to pass forwards. Is there a shortcut to more knowledge of my own players potential?

Young players will have black stars, because their ultimate potential is uncertain.

 

[zvers]

OK thanks guys for the answers. I kind of like the part thats a bit uncertain. And that players can be world players or just pretty ordinary in different save games. You can never be sure even if you buy the greatest players at a start. Not like in CM01/02 =)

Out of your answers I have drawn the conclusion to sell the players that have reached their maximum potential already and give more playing time to the ones with black stars, in order to decide who to keep, who to loan to other clubs and who to pass forward to other teams as expensive as possible! Thank you!

 

[Bigpapa42]

Out of your answers I have drawn the conclusion to sell the players that have reached their maximum potential already and give more playing time to the ones with black stars, in order to decide who to keep, who to loan to other clubs and who to pass forward to other teams as expensive as possible! Thank you!

Potential is a great thing, but we tend to over-focus on it. I've been guilty of this many many many times and am finally, after playing FM for more than a decade, coming around to looking at the bigger picture. There are more things to consider than simply the potential. The potential is simply how good a player could become. There are many factors on whether he gets there.

The starting point is key. Is the player well developed for his age (like WJ says, that's all a wonderkid really is) or mediocre or outright ****? Personality plays a massive role in player development. It used to be Determination but now its Professionalism and Ambition. Then consider the playing time they get, the level of that playing time, the facilities and coaching at the club, injuries they suffer, and the training they get. All of these have an impact. That high potential player who wasn't so high potential later might be that he didn't develop significantly and is not of an age where he is never likely to reach that potential. Or the scouts were wrong.

Another factor to consider is that your coaching staff are comparing the potential of that player to your current squad. So a couple years later, your squad is likely better and that alone drops the player a bit. Take the same player with the exact same potential and they might be a 5 star prospect for a mid-Prem club but only a 4 star prospect for an upper level Prem club. Because of what they are being compared against.

Selling players who have peaked and won't grow more to replace them with younger players with remaining potential isn't a bad business plan, but it has to be done smartly. You need to be able to replace the player you are selling on with a player of similar quality, or your squad moves backwards as a whole. If you replace a solid, reliable player with a much less developed one who has great potential, you are harming the quality of the side in the short term for potential (not certain) long term gain.