Possesion?

[nicholls]

Playing as Liverpool - second season, and I am really struggling to maintain possesion of the ball. If it was just against the top sides I wouldn't mind so much but I'm sturggling against everyone.

Started game plaing 4-2-3-1 in first season and was bossing possesion against all teams, then started to stuggle even though no change to tactics. This was rafa flavour with the five five set up.

I have switched to a 4-4-2 system which is working great in my spurs game but again I'm still struggling to maintain possesion. Metality in this tactic is more compact and seem to be playing a lot tighter during the games but still not doing well with possesion.

In assistant manager view during matches it says that my team are becoing to over confident and think they just have to turn up to win games. Could this be the cause? What do I do to address this over confidence?

Just getting really annyed when players like Alonso, Veloso, Gerrard etc can't pass a ball to save their lives.

Any input on how to maintain possesion???

 

[TheHig]

well for your assistant to be saying that you must be winning most your games, if you winning and have no possession I would not change anything

 

[nicholls]

well for your assistant to be saying that you must be winning most your games, if you winning and have no possession I would not change anything

Well I'm undefeated at the moment with only 1 draw away to Blackburn, so yeah I'm doing ok, but only six games in to the season.

I know over the season I will drop points as thats football, but if i don't sort out my inability to retain possesion I can't see my team challenging for the league as they should be.

Most of the games so far I have won by the skin of my teeth and the first half performances have been appalling.

3 of my games have been against the newly promoted teams, Reading, Birmingham, and Wolves. If I struggle against these teams I'm in real trouble for a league challenge.

 

[azabh50]

what type of passing play are you playing and if your winning a lot of them then does it matter lol

 

[nicholls]

what type of passing play are you playing and if your winning a lot of them then does it matter lol

I have tried both short and direct passing game.

The fact that I have won all but one of the six or seven games so far is a bit misleading though, as in all but two of them I have been out played and have been lucky to come away with 3 points. Luck doesn't hold out for ever though so I am looking at sorting the rot before it destroys my title challenge before it has begun.

 

[azabh50]

play 4-4-2 short passing tempo normal and mixed focus passing and if you have decent passers of the ball then you will hold possession weel that works for my team

 

[Preston85]

Well firstly if your only 6 games into the season could it be your players are still rusty from the offseason holiday and haven't gelled together again?

My bet is the AI has adjusted to your tactic, you like possession football so i'm guessing you play a slow-ish tempo which is fine in the first season where a lot of teams just sit with there defensive line near there penalty box and not pressing you. My guess is they've adjusted and pushed the defensive line up and closing you down harder, so really your best bet is to make them pay for it by taking advantage of the space behind there defensive line and scoring. Maybe you need to move deep your defensive line deeper and increase the width of your formation so the opponents have further to run to close your players down. Once they're a goal or two down they'll probably change tactic.

Watch the game and see if you can spot what they are doing differently rather than just "they're playing better". Are they closing down your players in your own half/penalty area? Does there Defensive line try to push out to half way line?

 

[nicholls]

Well firstly if your only 6 games into the season could it be your players are still rusty from the offseason holiday and haven't gelled together again?

My bet is the AI has adjusted to your tactic, you like possession football so i'm guessing you play a slow-ish tempo which is fine in the first season where a lot of teams just sit with there defensive line near there penalty box and not pressing you. My guess is they've adjusted and pushed the defensive line up and closing you down harder, so really your best bet is to make them pay for it by taking advantage of the space behind there defensive line and scoring. Maybe you need to move deep your defensive line deeper and increase the width of your formation so the opponents have further to run to close your players down. Once they're a goal or two down they'll probably change tactic.

Watch the game and see if you can spot what they are doing differently rather than just "they're playing better". Are they closing down your players in your own half/penalty area? Does there Defensive line try to push out to half way line?

I played a high tempo 4-2-3-1 in first season but AI seemed to learn how to counter as final third of season I really struggled. Tried siwitching to the 4-4-2 formation I'm using in Spurs game which is working a treat for them. No joy.

Started new season with 4-4-2. Squad harmony is very high, in fact one of the things board is happy about.

I brought in 4 new players, Hulk, Marquinhas (spelling?) Bounatte (spelling?) and Santon, but I don't play them all in the team at once as I don't want all the new players in the team at once upsetting the balance having not yet settled in.

I have tried a short 4-4-2 game normal tempo, then dropped it down to slow in game to try and retain possesion with no luck.

Tried a direct game with high tempo, and wide width, and still no luck.

With the players I have and the fact that they are settled at the club, for the most part (only 4 new players) I can't see why I am having these problems. Also my inability to retain possesion started during the end of last season so can't be that the players are rusty.

I am at a complete lose at what to do to be honest.

Could the players over confidence have such a massive affect on how they are playing?

I sub the ones who assistant manager says are totally over confident but hasn't seemed to make much of a difference at the mo.

Is there no team talk I can use to give them a kick up the **** as it were? I'm sure you used to be able to get the team captain to call a team meeting to dicuss issues and was hoping there might an option there but can't find how to do this?

 

[Zebedee]

To give a player a kick up the backside, use the "I expect a performance" teamtalk or you could risk a "I expect a win" teamtalk (beware of the impact on morale if you use this teamtalk and lose though...). Consider toning down any praise for the players - use 'none' as the teamtalk if a player has performed 'averagely' by his standards (check the teamtalk feedback to see how a player responds to this treatment - if you've praised him a lot for similar performances in the past you might see him getting 'confused' by your sudden switch in standards). It can have a huge impact on how your players play, so I'd agree that would be a good place to start trying to improve things. Demand more of the players as their performances improve but beware of demanding too much... I don't think there's a perfect solution, but learning where the limits are for each player helps a lot.

Do you check the motivation screen to see how a player is performing in match? It's in 'home stats' or 'away stats' - there's a view button in the top right hand corner which gives a drop down menu choice which gives 'motivation' as an option. This let's you track how the player is playing over the course of the match meaning you can tailor the half-time teamtalk to how he's performing. (I've only just learnt that this screen exists - previously I was using the in-game text to tell me).

As for your passing, well it really depends on whether you're still winning and what you're trying to do eg if you're playing a counterattacking, direct style then you're never going to retain possession, it's not what the system is meant to do. Your assistant will give you some advice though - if he says a player is giving the ball away a lot, it usually means the passing is set wrong for that player and could use clicking to the left by a click or two ("used to playing more direct" tends to mean lengthen the passing by clicking to the right). Whether that's for that day or for that player or for that tactic full stop is for you to decide, but you can adjust it in game and keep an eye on it for next match - if it's a regular problem then you can just play a saved version of the tactic with the change/s already made.

 

[nursemorph]

well for your assistant to be saying that you must be winning most your games, if you winning and have no possession I would not change anything

I totally agree with this. In most games I play, my team are almost always dominated in terms of possession because I usually play quite an attacking formation but I win more games because I create and score more goals while the other team has lots of possession but does nothing with it. At the end of the day, you may change the tactics to get more possession but the team do less with it.

As the old adage goes, it about "Quality not quantity"

 

[nicholls]

To give a player a kick up the backside, use the "I expect a performance" teamtalk or you could risk a "I expect a win" teamtalk (beware of the impact on morale if you use this teamtalk and lose though...). Consider toning down any praise for the players - use 'none' as the teamtalk if a player has performed 'averagely' by his standards (check the teamtalk feedback to see how a player responds to this treatment - if you've praised him a lot for similar performances in the past you might see him getting 'confused' by your sudden switch in standards). It can have a huge impact on how your players play, so I'd agree that would be a good place to start trying to improve things. Demand more of the players as their performances improve but beware of demanding too much... I don't think there's a perfect solution, but learning where the limits are for each player helps a lot.

Do you check the motivation screen to see how a player is performing in match? It's in 'home stats' or 'away stats' - there's a view button in the top right hand corner which gives a drop down menu choice which gives 'motivation' as an option. This let's you track how the player is playing over the course of the match meaning you can tailor the half-time teamtalk to how he's performing. (I've only just learnt that this screen exists - previously I was using the in-game text to tell me).

As for your passing, well it really depends on whether you're still winning and what you're trying to do eg if you're playing a counterattacking, direct style then you're never going to retain possession, it's not what the system is meant to do. Your assistant will give you some advice though - if he says a player is giving the ball away a lot, it usually means the passing is set wrong for that player and could use clicking to the left by a click or two ("used to playing more direct" tends to mean lengthen the passing by clicking to the right). Whether that's for that day or for that player or for that tactic full stop is for you to decide, but you can adjust it in game and keep an eye on it for next match - if it's a regular problem then you can just play a saved version of the tactic with the change/s already made.

Motivation Screen?! Now I did not know about that. Will have a check tonight.

Had another read through the TT&F and made some changes to my 4-2-3-1 formation sets.

Waiting for the changes to settle in with the team, but looking positive.

One question though. The TT&F states that attacking players should be given zonal and loose marking instructions. Is this the case with full backs given forward runs?

 

[Zebedee]

One question though. The TT&F states that attacking players should be given zonal and loose marking instructions. Is this the case with full backs given forward runs?

Depends what you want your fullbacks to do... but if you're playing a tactical variant where the fullbacks are told to bomb forward then 'zonal' is usually best. If you're playing more defensively, then go for man-marking. Fullbacks are usually classed as 'support' players in TT&F's match theory so their actual role will vary depending on whether you want to attack or defend. For some tips on setting up fullbacks, have a look at the 'player theory' part of TT&F.

 

[Preston85]

Marking is one of the things I think TT&F doesn't go into enough.

For example I think (and so do others) that you need different strengths to play Zonal well rather than Man. To Zonal mark you need Anticipation, Decisions and Positioning so your in the right place, you make the right decision who to mark and see what it going to happen. To Man mark you need Concentration, Marking and Tackling, as know who your marking so just need to mark well, keep your concentration so you know where he is and able to tackle him by yourself as other defenders could be further away marking someone than they are if they are zonal marking.

To Tight mark its recommended to have Agility, Anticipation and Pace so that you can get close to your opponent (especially when you see the ball about to come to him) then not get turned and ran away from due to poor agility and pace.

Although TT&F recommends using Man+Tight for defensive players and Zonal+Loose for attacking I generally play Zonal as it just keep the formation better (high quality opponents with great off the ball drag markers out of position) so you have more cover. Plus to play Offside Trap you only need to add Teamwork to the list of primary attributes and you can play Zonal + Offside trap well.

I tend to use Man marking in midfield so they track there man be it forward runs or dropping deep, just depends on the formations and numbers.

 

[Zebedee]

Man-marking in the game isn't really 'true' man-marking though - it seems to be a 'zonal/man-marking' hybrid. You have to specifically target a player to get 'true' man-marking. Teams haven't really used a full 'man-marking' system since the 60s (at least not in professional football - it was Brazillian football which introduced zonal marking in the 50s, everyone else quickly realised it was far more effective). The hybrid works because, like zonal, people look for who to mark in an area of the field, and, like man-marking, they aren't restricted to just that one area. Downside, of course, is that a bad decision in moving across to help out means you can get caught out elsewhere - usually down the flanks because the fullback has moved across to help out the overloaded DC. But then this happens with zonal too... It has more of an impact going forward as the hybrid man-marking will mean players don't find as much space in their 'zone' as they could do. I think that's why TT&F recommend splitting marking in the way that they do.

Zonal definitely is the way to go for a top team which has gelled and has a sound tactic which is based around zonal defence. But zonal as a full defensive system really does need top class players.

The offside trap as such doesn't seem to work properly any more, which I guess is realistic. I want to recreate Sacchi's Milan, but there' no way I can leave my defensive line that high up in the game purely because offside decisions are so hit-and-miss. It's not really something you can rely upon any more; I tick it when I have no other choice due to having to attack and needing any help I can get from the linesman.

 

[Preston85]

I think I agree, the best way i've found to describe Man Marking is "Positional Man Marking" rather than Specific Man Marking, in that your assigned person is either the Left ST or Right ST rather than Tevez or Rooney. Hence if the player swaps position or roams around out of that position they will no longer be your responsability (assuming the defender figures that out).

Zonal = Stays in Position more, puts less pressure on opponents.
Man = Moves a bit further from Position to put more pressure on opponents.
Specific = Moves the furthest from position so puts the most pressure on the opponent.


Maybe its just the players and teams i've tried but I've always found having my DC's on Zonal to work best, having that solid back two in position all the time is crucial, especially being tighter and more cover. Maybe if I had Ferdinand and Vidic I could play Man since the extra pressure on the opponent would make more mistakes whilst the defenders would rarely make a mistake like miss a tackle.