Possessive 4-2-3-1 with a twist (Feedback wanted)

Kiltman67

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Over the past few seasons (currently in 2023) I've been trying to develop a tactic for my Manchester United team that combines possession, passing, clean sheets and goals. I can get possession (typically 60-65%), I don't concede too often, and I get goals (although I could certainly get more), but it's the passing that I'm having trouble with. I'm looking to get at least two or three players who are reliably getting 70+ passes per game.

I've stuck with the same formation, 4-2-3-1, but tweaked the tactics a lot to little effect. Now I'm looking to get some feedback on the tactic to see what I can do to improve it. Rather than bombarding you with screencaps of every facet of the tactic, I decided just to attach a copy (as well as a "slow" variant I've been experimenting with to try and increase the number of passes).

Formation

I'll start off by showing the formation. I've changed a lot of the player instructions, but their roles still largely map onto what they're expected to be doing.


Team Instructions

I forgot to get a screencap of the team instructions, but the tactic is quick with little time-wasting (to try discourage sitting on the ball), the defense is pushed up high and the team is a little more narrow than wide. I have the MCl set as a playmaker, and the AMC as targetman with run onto ball.

Positions

Goalkeeper

My first choice keeper is still De Gea, but I wouldn't dare give him the freedom to move around a little more, so no sweeper keepers here. Realistically anybody could be the keeper, as the midfield and defense usually do a pretty good job of cutting down the opposition's opportunities. There's been a few games this season where the opposition have only had one or two shots.

Fullbacks

There are slight differences between the sides (e.g. attacking wingback vs supporting fullback), but each player is expected to get into the midfield and pass the ball around. The left back pushes a little higher, and often finds himself in a passing triangle with the MCl and the AML, while the right back typically gets 50-70 passes per game. Both should be able to make a pass, but the right should be a little more solid defensively.

Centrebacks

Both players have identical roles. The only difference being the one on the left is set to collect from the goalkeeper and allowed more through balls. Additionally, he is set to hug the touchline, to try and cover for the leftback's forward runs.

Centre midfielder - Left

The deep-lying playmaker. He tends to drop a little deeper than his partner on the right, and will often move from side to side behind him. With recent tweaks he's not really making as many passes as he used to, but with the ball playing defender behind him I would like a lot of the play to move through him.

Centre midfielder - Right

His role has largely been dictated by the players I've had. Would like him to have been a supporting DLP, but don't really have the depth to do that. I suspect that if you have someone who can play the role AND is great at long shots then he'll bag a lot of goals. Unfortunately all I get are a lot of misses!

Wingers

I'll lump these two together. Historically they were more different: the right tended to be more of a playmaker (a hangover from a previous 4-3-3 formation), while the left was a poacher who had been pushed wide (my youth academy produces a lot of quick, one-dimensional, right footed poachers). Now they're much more similar. Both cut inside, giving the fullbacks space to move into. Both try and score. Crossing is kept to a minimum. I rotate between right and left footers on the right wing. When the player is left-footed he tends to score more, when he's right-footed he assists more.

Attacking Midfielder - Centre

Originally he was strictly a playmaker (in fact, I moved from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 to accommodate Ozil), but this has shifted recently. Had two young playmakers come through the ranks who are both great finishers (one of whom is deadly from 40 yards, and would probably be a complete forward if he had the pace). The position has evolved into more of a false 10, with the player pushing up and having more opportunities to score. That's where the previously mentioned twist comes in. With three strikers sitting behind the forward, the tactic is more of a 4-2-4.

Centre Forward

The AMC's partner, the false 9. He drops deep and offers support, but I also expect him to grab a few goals. I'm fortunate to have the only regen I've ever seen who's recommended role was complete forward (he endeared himself to me by responding to us going 1-0 down in a cup final by banging in 5 goals from open play), so I expect a lot from the players in this position.

Match preparations


I usually use teamwork (moving from very high to average as they get more acquainted with the tactic) then switch to average attacking movement.

Shouts


Nothing novel here. In fact most, if not all, credit goes to Raikan007. I do have a home and away variant, but playing away to bottom half teams, I often tend to use the home shouts. Also occassionally use Look to Overlap.


Wrapping up

Think that's everything I wanted to say. Any questions or suggestions would be hugely appreciated! I do have a very good group of players, and a lot of depth, so it wouldn't shock me if the tactic was useless for lower league teams, but still would be interested to hear what you think about it.
 
Looks good m8,

If you want the type of passing numbers you mentioned above you could have posted this on Raikans possession discussion thread or at least check it out your self, there's everything you need to know on that thread!

I have a tactic which I wanted more passes from, implemented many of the methods recommended and played a match last night to test it out, it was only 1-0 vs Sunderland but Scholes got 153 passes attempted 144 completed.

Carrick 68-66

Modric 64-62

Also phil jones 109-101

Similar numbers to what you were after?

So if you follow the examples on that thread I'm sure ull be racking up the passing numbers!!

Steve
 
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Thanks for your response! I should say that a lot of what has gone into the tactic has come from that possession thread, as well as numerous blogs and forums across the internet. I have those to thank for keeping my possession in the 60s while still consistently grabbing 3 or 4 goals per game. It's just that nothing I've tried so far has managed to increase the number of passes.
 
I used think I knew about fm tactics...until I started going on the forums!

Pretty much everything I know about tactics has come from here!

That's the 1st time I've achieved those passing numbers with my own tactic, the possession was 82%, 4CCC, they had 2 shots 1 on target, I could have got more passing if not for a straight red in 61min!

Gonna load up as soon as I get in, hope it wasn't a one off performance, and wanna see how it does away!

Good luck with your tactics.
 
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Hi mate, nice thread! i liked your tactics so im gonna test them out, with Man United! I see you play United aswell and im wondering, how do you PPM your players? Do you train some of your strikers to new positions such as Rvp and Wellbeck too inside forward for exampel? what to do with hernandez? May i also ask what pitchsize you use? Seen many different opinions on 4-2-3-1 and pitchsizes..

Finding a solid 4-2-3-1 with good possesion, goals and tight defence would be a wet dream come true for me so im exited to start out! Ill try and give feedback as i go!

cheers..
 
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Hi mate, nice thread! i liked your tactics so im gonna test them out, with Man United! I see you play United aswell and im wondering, how do you PPM your players? Do you train some of your strikers to new positions such as Rvp and Wellbeck too inside forward for exampel? what to do with hernandez? May i also ask what pitchsize you use? Seen many different opinions on 4-2-3-1 and pitchsizes..

I'm playing in 2023 so all of those players have either retired or moved on. De Gea is the only current Man Utd player in my team. Smalling had been a backup right back for a few seasons but I've just let him go.

I have been thinking about how the current United team would fit the formation, considering playing at least a short save with United in FM13. This probably wouldn't be my ideal starting XI, but if I was trying to utilise as many of the current players as possible then:

-------------Rooney-------------
Welbeck-----Kagawa--------RVP-
---------Carrick---Scholes-------
---------------------------------
Buttner---Evans---Vidic----Rafael
-------------De Gea-------------

Could possibly swap Carrick and Scholes, and I'd make sure that the left centre back had the better passing stats. I assume it's Evans because he's capable of coming into the midfield, but could be wrong.

I might consider putting RVP at the front, with Rooney behind him. Valencia on the right wing and Kagawa either on the bench or as MCr. Alternatively, Welbeck on the bench with Rooney on the left wing and RVP up front.

Hernandez is the tricky one. He's too one-dimensional to play at the front, so I'd probably train him to play on a wing. Assuming he's right footed, so train him as AML, teach him to cut inside etc.

I've never really noticed pitch size having an effect. I've been playing for a few seasons with the smallest pitch, just about to start a season with the largest to see what effect it has.

As far as PPMs, there are obvious ones like having wingers cut inside, having players run from deep if their roles demand it and getting talented passers in the midfield to play one-twos, but generally I use PPMs to stamp out bad habits like getting poor finishers to pass rather than shoot, getting poor passing centre backs to play short simple passes, getting players to stop passing to the opposite flank etc.

Good luck with the tactic. Let me know how you get on!
 
Yea, so how did i get on : ) Well, just like every time i start off just great! won all my pre season games with ease, against teams like Bayern, Ajax, PSG. And continues to do great, the 10 first games in the league, league cup and champions league, strolling to 3-0, 4-0, 2-0 wins, having 60% or more possesion home AND away, and i say too myself " YES!!! finally!! awesome tactic!". And then, from out of nowhere, the morale goas from super too ok/decent for no reason what so ever! Like my game is ******* bugged or something! So now, ive lost 4 out of the last 5 games, all 4 away to teams like Sunderland, Swansea, Norwich and valencia in the Champions League! My oposition is extremely effective, scoring on like 80% of all shots, like against valencia, i lost 4-1 i had 24 shots, 8 on goal and end up with scoring an owngoal in the 89th minute, after beeing 2-0 fown after 5 minutes! Even though valencia got a red card after 11 minutes i stand no chance what so ever! I also looked at when i normally conceed goals and 90% i conceed in the first 15 minutes! I have no idea why this happens to me again and again! I have tryed now i think every damm tactic on this forum and nothing does it for me, i **** it up every single time, i am clueless! I just have no idea what so ever what the **** im doing wrong! Every save im doing great to like november/december and then, im ******!

I brought in fellaini and Hummels, to get players for the Dlp d and the Bpd c and i think maybe these 2 are the 2 best in the game for this! I used Dunc`s training schedule and brought in great coaches like carravetta, Demichelis, Segura and make Mcclair, Mcguiness etc 1st team coaches, i spend hours trying too make everything perfect just to see it go the exact same way every damm time!

But i realize now, it has NOTHING to do with the tactics im playing, its all me, im must do something wrong because it happens every time!! every single time! It just showes that the only thing that matters in this game is squad morale! everything else, tactic, players etc etc, matter nothing! Its all about handling media perfect and the teamtalks! make 1 single misstake there and game over..
 
Sorry to hear that it's not going well, but I do recognise some of what you've said.

The opposition do tend to be quite accurate with this and similar tactics. There's been a few games where the opposition get one shot in the whole game, and they manage to score with it.

Conceding early goals is a little familiar too. Went through a few months where every game began with me conceding an early goal before going on to score 3 or 4.

If you think your problems are related to morale, then there are various guides out there for managing the psychological aspects of FM. I know it can be hard to improve morale when your players aren't performing on the field, but you might be able to get a boost using team meetings.
 
Yea, its seems like they way this game is built. I also really suffer in away games, never loosing more than 1-0 or 2-1 though ( except the horrific game vs valencia ) , you have any advise on this? You use the "slow" tactic away? And also, like ive stated, i create ALOT of chances but my players fail too score, especially the striker, any advise? Im not sure i have the best inside forwards to be honest, maybe this is the problem? I normally play Young on the left and Rvp on the right.. Young has loads of assists, maybe my best player but doesent score alot. And Rvp has been disapointing on the right side..
 
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Yea, its seems like they way this game is built. I also really suffer in away games, never loosing more than 1-0 or 2-1 though ( except the horrific game vs valencia ) , you have any advise on this? You use the "slow" tactic away? And also, like ive stated, i create ALOT of chances but my players fail too score, especially the striker, any advise? Im not sure i have the best inside forwards to be honest, maybe this is the problem? I normally play Young on the left and Rvp on the right.. Young has loads of assists, maybe my best player but doesent score alot. And Rvp has been disapointing on the right side..

You could try using the slow tactic, but I'm not sure it'll make a difference. You could try lowering the mentality to the Counter "region", but you'll need to manually tweak all of the centre players (from CBs to the forward).

How has Welbeck been on the left? I would probably play RVP up front, and either Rooney or Kagawa behind him (if it's Kagawa then I'd play Rooney on the left). If my experiences are anything to go buy then Valencia at AMR won't score much, but he should provide a lot of service for the AMC and ST and rack up assists.

Which players are making most of the passes?
 
Man U tactic Rooney and RVP uprfront with Kagawa inbehind.Then the wingers either valencia, young nani and then carrick holding anchor man. or a 4-3-2-1 3 in midfield would be cleverley carrick and scholes with kagawa rooney of RVP FM 13 BuUZZZing
 
Well with dortmund Gotze is Playmaker so have him playing behind Lewandowski then blaczkowski (dont know how to spell it) nad Reus out wide. Probaly start a carrer with them and PsG who do you think you'll be?
 
Well with dortmund Gotze is Playmaker so have him playing behind Lewandowski then blaczkowski (dont know how to spell it) nad Reus out wide. Probaly start a carrer with them and PsG who do you think you'll be?

Not convinced it would work. The AMC is much more than a playmaker, he's expected to push forward and score. Gotze just isn't a good enough finisher.
 
I might try the "slow" one, sure.. I think the problem more than anything, is that i fail too score on my chances! I loose 1-0, 2-1 but i have, like you "promise", about 60% posession every game and create loads of chances!

I play ; Llorente up front with Rooney behind. I play Rvp as the right IF and Young as the left IF. Rvp scoret 18 in the league and Young had close too 40 assist and 12 goals ( was voted player of the year in both PL and the world ) so he did amazing! In the center i play Carrick ( or Fellaini ) as deep playmaker and Fellaini ( or Fletcher ) as ballwinner. They started of absolutely amazing, pushing close too 7.70 rating the first 10-12 games but they fell of badly... I tryed to change the AP position to a normal attacking midfielder but with little difference. To be honest, i often have between 15 and 25 shots pr. game but not many hit the goal, im thinking they are shooting from bad angles etc, not sure how too address this though.. starting season 2 now ( after only winning the Fa cup 1st season ) with a very strong squad so we will see if there is any change.. Ill keep in touch : )
 
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