PPM or instruction?

[Ghost77]

Hi guys,

I am wondering if PPMs like "brings ball out of defence", "gets foward whenever possible", "runs with ball down right, centre or left" shouldn't be player instructions instead. What do you think?

IMO at least the first one should definitely be an instruction; if you choose BPD, he doesn't do that at all; I just want him to stay on the ball and go forward in 3man defence and there is no other possibility..

Thx for opinions

 

[wkdsoul]

Ball playing defenders without that PPM don't, there is a difference between a CB who can play the ball around on the floor, and who knows when to bring it into midfield via a dribble. I'd rather have it as a rare skill than the norm

 

[Ghost77]

Ball playing defenders without that PPM don't, there is a difference between a CB who can play the ball around on the floor, and who knows when to bring it into midfield via a dribble. I'd rather have it as a rare skill than the norm

Thanks for the answer. I get your point.

But still I think there should be some common instruction for central defenders to go up the pitch with/without the ball.. IRL we can see these movements all the time. For example Gasperini's Atalanta Bergamo is playing withe 3 central defenders. Their left central defender is supporting the attack by going up or to the left midfield area (sometimes almost to the wing area) with or without the ball. Their right central defender is also going up the pitch often with or without the ball, not to the side though.

I can't replicate that in FM sadly. The only thing that helps are the PPMs. But if you comprehend it more like a skill, I think we should be able to instruct them to go up the pitch and support at least without the ball.. My 3 central defenders are just standing in the line and not supporting at all without the PPMs. But almost all systems with 3 defenders heavily rely on them going up..

 

[Snorks]

player movement isn't a skill though.
Not at my game computer so can;t check the role/duty specific instructions, but there is a DC role that allows the PI 'Get Further Forward' plus there is the Player Trait you can train over time.

It terms of what is 'skills' and what is 'personality/style/trait' I always think of the attributes as skills and everything else is a character thing that can be trained over time - tutoring, PIs and Traits.

 

[Ghost77]

player movement isn't a skill though.
Not at my game computer so can;t check the role/duty specific instructions, but there is a DC role that allows the PI 'Get Further Forward' plus there is the Player Trait you can train over time.

It terms of what is 'skills' and what is 'personality/style/trait' I always think of the attributes as skills and everything else is a character thing that can be trained over time - tutoring, PIs and Traits.

No, unfortunately there isn't any DC role that allows "Get Further Forward" instruction... Of course, I know player can learn the traits/PPMs, but is moving up the pitch or to the side from central defensive position trait, which is learned or should the player simply do it, when asked to?

 

[Snorks]

Maybe it's down to attributes - Decisions, Positioning, Anticipation etc.
Can you set one to 'Roam from Position'

 

[Ghost77]

Maybe it's down to attributes - Decisions, Positioning, Anticipation etc.
Can you set one to 'Roam from Position'

Unfortunately attributes don't make any impact on that.. And even if they did, I think it should be simple instruction.. No, there isn't possibility to Roam from position for central defenders

 

[Snorks]

The attributes will have a big impact -
Decisions - whether or not to go forward, to close down, to pass it long or short
Positioning - where the player is positioned over where he needs to be (also see Decisions on whether he positions himself here or there)
Anticipation - PLAYER: I am here, I think the ball/player is going over there soon. So decisions, positioning etc play off each other.

The individual attribute are how good they are at a particular thing, the combination of attributes impacts their on-field behaviour.

If you want a BPD to bring the ball out of defence at his feet, rather than with a pass, he will need good dribbling, control and the ability to recognise when this is not a good idea (Decisions), an ability to see what he will do with it (Anticipation) and be in the right area of the pitch (Positioning). Also, bearing in mind, that a Ball Playing Defender is just that, his role and duty are built to play the ball with passing rather than dribbling.

AS well as all that, the rest of the players in front of him need to be positioned to allow it. If he is positioned centrally, a player with good Decisions won't run with the ball into a crowded area, your DM/CMs need to be clearing a path for him so there is space fro him to bring the ball into with minimal risk.

 

[Ghost77]

The attributes will have a big impact -
Decisions - whether or not to go forward, to close down, to pass it long or short
Positioning - where the player is positioned over where he needs to be (also see Decisions on whether he positions himself here or there)
Anticipation - PLAYER: I am here, I think the ball/player is going over there soon. So decisions, positioning etc play off each other.

The individual attribute are how good they are at a particular thing, the combination of attributes impacts their on-field behaviour.

If you want a BPD to bring the ball out of defence at his feet, rather than with a pass, he will need good dribbling, control and the ability to recognise when this is not a good idea (Decisions), an ability to see what he will do with it (Anticipation) and be in the right area of the pitch (Positioning). Also, bearing in mind, that a Ball Playing Defender is just that, his role and duty are built to play the ball with passing rather than dribbling.

AS well as all that, the rest of the players in front of him need to be positioned to allow it. If he is positioned centrally, a player with good Decisions won't run with the ball into a crowded area, your DM/CMs need to be clearing a path for him so there is space fro him to bring the ball into with minimal risk.

With all due respect I know all of this. But as I said, even when I try it with players with these attributes, defenders don't go up the pitch. And honestly this wasn't what the OP was about. I tried to open discussion about wheter there should be an instruction for defenders to go up the pitch with or without the ball.. or if "Brings ball out of defence" shouldn't be an instruction instead of PPM (trait).

Of course I know, that if defender is to bring ball out of defence without risks, he has to have attributes to do it in the right time and he has to comprehend many factors on the pitch. But still I as a manager should be able to instruct him to go up the pitch - even if he is not able to do it well in the end.

When your player has bad long shots, you still can instruct him to shoot more often. Or if he is bad at crossing or dribbling, you can still instruct him to cross and dribble more. You can tell him to sit narrower or wider. And it's the same with central defenders.. you should be able to instruct them to go up the pitch with or without the ball. It's irrelevant whether they will make a mistake or not. So in other words, they only need the attributes to do it well, they don't need them to do it generally.

But thanks for answering anyway, Snorks ;-)