**Promotion Winning Tactics**... EXPLAINED!

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rocheyb

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WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE... SAY, WE ARE PREMIER LEAGUE!
Sheffield Wednesday will be playing Premier League football next season after securing 2nd place in the Championship. Frankly, we should have won the Championship title; we hit a run of draws in mid-season where my strikers lost form and I couldn't get things back on track for a while, but we still avoided defeats. And then, in the penultimate match of the season, we were 2-0 up at West Ham's Olympic Stadium with about 30 minutes to go - only to end up losing 3-2 and conceding top spot to them!

But, this has been a successful season overall, and I have decided to create this thread because I keep on seeing posts from FM-ers asking for advice about their own tactics and my replies pretty much cover the same ground every time. So by providing full chapter and verse here, I can just drop a link to them in future so they can come here to get my advice. I do have a tendency to waffle on, so I will try to break this up into easily digestible chunks that can be read and revisited in isolation.

The idea here is not to have you adopt my tactics, verbatim. If you read this thread right the way through, you will - if you haven't already - come to realise how apparently different instructions on the Team and Individual Player level compliment each other and come together to form a strong, consistent and effective tactic. Then you'll be able to apply that understanding to your own tactical formations and individual instructions.
For the majority of the season, I was setting the team up in a 4-3-3 formation with two conventional wingers. Injury to my preferred right winger prompted me to switch my left winger to an Inside Forward role on occasions, and after a long run of draws in which I was struggling to get the best out of my strikers, I ended the season using an Asymmetric 4-5-1 system that pushed my most creative playmaker into a more advanced position.

The players shown in the screenshots are not necessarily those that have just won promotion. I'm now into the subsequent pre-season and have brought in several players to take us to Premier League level, but I have targeted players with these tactics in mind - as you can see by how many of them have the full green circle to indicate that they are in their preferred positions, roles and duties - and in the next post, I will address the first of these formations in detail...
 
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4-3-3 With Conventional Wingers
My team is set-up to play controlled, possession football that exploits the space on both wings and concentrates on getting crosses into the box. The specific instructions that I give at the team level, and to individual players, are based on those central ideas and I go further with key players by training them to adopt particular Preferred Moves that compliment this system - and I will identify those by position as I explain each role in turn.

But first, let's look at the Team Instructions. I have the team Retaining Possession, Playing Out of Defence, Exploiting Both the Left and Right Flanks and Looking For Overlap... all of these instructions are consistent with the style of play that I described in the previous paragraph. So in each of these tactical areas, I am giving clear, consistent instructions to the team about how I want them to play. You can see from the 4-3-3 screenshot, for example, that I have my left back on Attack mode and the left winger ahead of him on Support mode, so I want the left back to overlap. The right back, who is on Support mode, will overlap less often but with the whole team instructed to look out for these opportunities I am making sure that those forward runs are not wasted by other players failing to give them the ball.

Having the team start off with a Control/Flexible mentality, Being More Disciplined, this gives me somewhere to go when I want to switch to a more offensive stance - Attack/Fluid, Be More Creative, Roam From Positions - or when I want to go defensive to protect a lead - Defend/Structured, Be More Disciplined, Stick to Positions.

In the next post, I will examine the Goalkeeper's role in this system...
 
4-3-3 With Wingers - GOALKEEPER
Joel Drummel is a new signing from Southampton, but last season my goalkeeper was John Ruddy, formerly of Norwich City, who I picked up on a free transfer last summer and who kept more clean sheets - 24 - than anyone else in the Championship.

In the Tactics thread, I sometimes see posts showing Goalkeepers playing the Sweeper Keeper role even though it is not their preferred role. I know that Sweeper Keepers are fashionable, but for me that takes an unnecessary risk with your last line of defence. Train him up to be a Sweeper Keeper, if you want, but the man between the sticks should be playing whichever role he is best-suited to, to maximise his chances of playing to the best of his ability.

In my team, as well as shot stopping, catching crosses and shouting at defenders, the goalkeeper sees to it that we start as we mean to go on in terms of possession football. He doesn't play any risky passes; instead, he rolls the ball out to the full backs, to enable them to fulfil that Play Out of Defence instruction that I issued at the Team Level.

Sometimes, I will have a Target Man upfront and I might instruct the keeper to Kick Long to get headed knock ons, but I've only done that a couple of times to exploit an injured opposition centre back and when defending for dear life toward the end of the match.

The next post will examine the role of the two centre-backs...
 
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4-3-3 With Wingers - CENTRE BACKS
As with the goalkeeper, I prefer to have my centre backs play whichever combination of position, role and duty that they are best suited to, so with three centre backs on constant rotation and a fourth providing additional back-up, the roles will change from match-to-match. But the combination shown above is the one I use more commonly, partnering a Ball Playing Defender_Defend with a Limited Defender_Stopper (think Gary Pallister and Steve Bruce; Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic; Rio Ferdinand and John Terry for England).

The Ball Playing Defender has licence to play defence splitting passes from his defensive position to put us on the counter attack. His passes will typically go into the centre circle where the Target Man can hold the ball up and spread it to the wings, or will release the left winger in behind the opposition right back.

The Limited Defender operates as a Stopper, stepping out of the defensive line to engage the opponent with strong challenges before either leaving the ball for our Defensive Midfielder to pick up or playing a short pass to a more creative player and retreating back to his defensive position.

I only employ centre backs who are 6'0" or taller. High quality youth player centre backs who are any shorter than that will get re-trained to become either a full back or defensive midfielder. We play a fairly deep defensive line, so I am not overly concerned by a lack of pace in my centre backs; aerial ability is more important. Both of my centre backs are detailed to get forward for set-pieces, but I only got a couple of goals out of them during the whole of last season, despite setting up set piece moves and training on them regularly.

Of my centre backs, these Preferred Moves compliment the roles that I want them to play. I usually only have four; Tom Lees is transfer-listed and Thomas Basila is a new signing. Some of them are equally comfortable in two or more roles/duties, but essentially:

- Cameron Humphreys - Limited Defender_Stopper - Marks Opponent Tightly; Dives Into Tackles
- Noah Sonko Sundberg - Limited Defender_Defend - Stays Back At All Times; Avoids Using Weaker Foot
- Tom Lees - Central Defender_Defend - Stays Back At All Times; Does Not Dive Into Tackles
- Thomas Basila - Ball Playing Defender_Defend - None
- Paddy McNair - Ball Playing Defender_Defend - Does Not Dive Into Tackles; Tries Long Range Passes; Switches Ball to Opposite Flank

The next post will look at the full backs...
 
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4-3-3 With Wingers - FULL BACKS
As a Southampton fan, I am genetically pre-disposed to favouring an attack-minded left back: Wayne Bridge, Gareth Bale, Luke Shaw, Ryan Bertrand - even Andrew Surman, for a while. In this formation, I get the left back to operate on the overlap with the left winger ahead of him on Support duty and the right back being a little more disciplined by operating on the Support duty. The fundamental difference is that the left back will look to be part of the counter attack, or the first wave attack, whereas the right back comes into play when that attack has stalled, helping to instigate a second wave attack by offering additional width and an alternative angle of attack.

The full backs will receive the ball from the goalkeeper quite often, as part of our Retain Possession tactic. So it's important that they are detailed to play short passes to safely move the ball into midfield to get us facing forward.

Pace and crossing ability are important attributes for these players - I don't like the more defensive full backs, who often double-up as centre backs. They don't bring enough tactical diversity to offer anything useful. The left back is detailed to Cross from the Byline and Aim Crosses to Centre. The right back, who is on Support mode, Crosses from Deep and Aims Crosses at Target Man. This varies our style of attack and gives the opposition different things to deal with in different situations, which is more likely to expose a weakness if it's there.

As we'll come to, the wingers have similar but complimentary crossing instructions and the central midfielders are instructed to move the ball out to the wide areas quickly and often.

The next post will look at the DM role...
 
4-3-3 With Wingers - BALL WINNING MIDFIELDER
One of the most important positions in the team, a good DM will keep the back door shut while your more creative prima donnas are up front, comparing hairstyles and dropping to the ground every time a defender breathes on them. I will switch the DM role between Ball Winning Midfielder and Defensive Midfielder if it suits the selected player, but for the most part I usually have a BWM in this position.

His is a tackling brief, getting the ball back from the opposition and distributing it short to more creative players to let them go and play further upfield. I don't ask a lot from him creatively or in terms of goalscoring, though I do push him forward for set-pieces. Generally, though, he's the Steady Eddy who holds his position and guards against opposition counter attacks.

An overly aggressive DM will be prone to red cards, so keep an eye on that particular attribute and look for Strong, Tall players with high ratings for Tackling, Bravery, Determination, Work Rate and Stamina. A decent Passing ability will prevent him from giving the ball away in dangerous areas. I have three DMs at the moment and two of them have Refrains From Taking Long Shots among their Preferred Moves, since their Long Shots ratings are not high enough to encourage them to try their luck.

The Deep Lying Playmaker will be under the microscope, next...
 
4-3-3 With Wingers - DEEP LYING PLAYMAKER
The primary role of my Deep Lying Playmaker_Support is to ensure that we play on the wings and quickly exploit spaces as they appear by playing the ball out to the full backs or wingers.

The DLP role imposes a restriction on long range shooting, which I would rather it didn't because my DLP - Joe Ralls from Cardiff City - is decent from distance, but it's a compromise that I have had to make to ensure that we play the way I want us to. His Preferred Moves do include Shooting From Distance, though, together with Dictating Tempo and Switching the Ball to Opposite Flanks. He is also instructed to play More Risky Passes which will sometimes include a ball over the top of the opposition centre back into the path of our on-running striker.

At set-pieces, I prefer to have the DLP lurking outside the area where he can pick up lose balls and distribute it back out to the flanks so we can get a cross in while we still have players pushed forward.

The next post will look at the Advanced Playmaker...
 
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4-3-3 With Wingers - ADVANCED PLAYMAKER
The Advanced Playmaker_Attack should be the most creative player in the team, and during this promotion season the two players that I have had operating in that role - Kristoffer Olsson and Ryan Mason (who was injured for much of it) - were integral to our success.

The specific instructions for this role are Get Further Forward, Shoot Less Often, Dribble More, More Direct Passes and More Risky Passes. Your AP should be among the best passers in your squad so you can trust him to take more risks and try to play your forwards in on goal. I added More Direct Passes because my Assistant Manager's in-match reports kept telling me that Ryan Mason or Kristoffer Olsson were used to playing more direct and I saw a slight improvement in them when I added that instruction.

Olsson is a catalogue of Preferred Moves: Tries Killer Balls Often; Places Shots; Comes Deep to Get the Ball; Dictates Tempo; Dwells on the Ball. Mason has: Gets Forward Whenever Possible; Switches Ball to Opposite Flank. I can't say that I have noticed those differences in the way these two players operate in the role, but Olsson has scored a couple from outside the box which Mason doesn't often attempt.

In this formation, the AP is operating from the M(C) position. In the 4-5-1 Assymetric set-up, he operates from the AM(C) position where he can be closer to the striker and feed passes between defenders and into the channels more often, as well as getting into the penalty area on occasion to meet whipped crosses.

Next up, the Wingers...
 
4-3-3 With Wingers - WINGERS
Like the full backs, my wingers are staggered to give different angles of attack and to present different kinds of problems to the opposition defence.

On the left, my winger allows for our overlapping full back by playing in Support mode. He plays one-twos to help the full back advance and holds back slightly to provide an outlet of the pass if a defender closes down the full back and prevents him from getting a cross in from the byline. The left winger will Cross From Deep, which generally means from just outside the corner of the penalty area, and Aim (usually whipped) Crosses to the Far Post. With the right winger on Attack Duty, he is the prime candidate to get on the end of that cross and provide the finish.

The right winger's Attack duty requires him to get to the Byline and Cross to the Centre. The right back will help to manoeuvre him down the wing with the ball and provide back-up when the path is blocked. When a counter attack breaks down, a full back on Support duty moving forward on the flank will often provide the opportunity to instigate a second wave attack and to find another way around the defence. When this happens, the right winger will sometimes be in a more central position and can get forward to meet the cross. This system works best when you have a Target Man in the striker's role.

Rob Hall, who is usually my left winger, can also play as an Inside Forward_Attack on the right hand side and has done particularly well at getting on the end of those far post crosses from the left winger. But I've found that a Winger-Inside Forward combination diminishes the role of the Target Man - an Advanced Forward seems to work better.

The Striker role will be examined next...
 
4-3-3 With Wingers - STRIKER
Throughout our promotion winning season, I alternated between a Target Man_Attack and an Advanced Forward_Attack.

The second screenshot above shows the role of Complete Forward_Attack because my AF last season was Cas van Looveren, a Borussia Dortmund youngster who I took on a season-long loan. He scored 21 goals in 26(17) appearances. I tried to get him back again this season but Zenit St. Petersburg stepped in with a permanent transfer bid that I couldn't match.
I have Jerome Sinclair, who prefers to play as a Complete Forward, back from loan this season so I will be switching this term. But, the point is that you can play forwards in their preferred roles but some work better in this set-up than others.

The Target Man will thrive when you have conventional wingers and full backs getting plenty of crosses in. Examine your pre-match Opposition Scouting Reports and the info you receive from your Assistant Manager during the match to decide whether to Whip or Float Crosses. If you switch to an Inside Forward_Attack on one of the wings, an Advanced Forward will interact slightly better, particularly if balls are played into the channels for him to run onto.

During build-up play, the Target Man will hold the ball up in the centre circle and spread the ball wide to help your forward progress before setting off towards the penalty area to get on the end of crosses. The Advanced Forward is more likely to turn and run at the opposition, often on the diagonal, and is he's really good he might even get all the way into the area and get a shot away - otherwise he'll push the ball wide and get himself on the shoulder of the last defender. The Complete Forward can do a bit of everything but he has to be physically fit with plenty of stamina.

Next, I'll be looking at how the 4-5-1 Assymetric System differs from the 4-3-3...
 
4-5-1 Assymetric System - DIFFERENCES TO 4-3-3
I first started using the 4-5-1 Assymetric system in FM11 with my Southampton team, with the right winger more advanced and the left midfielder sitting deeper. The set-up I have here with my Sheffield Wednesday team looks to exploit the proven goalscoring ability of Rob Hall and puts my January transfer window signing Dennon Lewis into his preferred M(R) position.

To take account of this switch of my normal staggered instructions, I now have the right back on Attack duty and the left back is Supporting. Their crossing instructions are altered to take account of their altered areas of influence on the pitch.

Where the 4-3-3 system exploited the flanks, here I have the team playing through the middle to direct the ball to my creative midfielders who will still Look For Overlap and spread it to the wings as we progress forward. Having the Advanced Playmaker in the AM(C) position enables him to link up with the Advanced Forward more often, particularly by playing throughballs into the channels and puts the AP within shooting range more often, too. The more mobile Advanced Forward or Complete Forward are more suitable for this formation than the Target Man option.

Whipped Crosses From Deep, Aimed at the Far Post from the Right Midfielder put the Left Winger_Attack in goalscoring positions on the back post.

This formation really comes into its own during counter attacks when you can see five players with distinctly different roles each carrying them out as they move the ball between themselves and swiftly progress upfield. Staggered formations help to break the lines and pull opposition midfielders and defenders into areas they don't want to go, creating gaps for others to exploit.
 
THE END
I hope that helps, whatever tactical shape you are using. Feel free to post questions, observations or criticisms into this same thread and I will get back to you with my 10p's worth. And here's to a successful season in the Premier League...
 
Hey mate, have you had any luck converting these onto FM17?
 
Het2 said:
Hey mate, have you had any luck converting these onto FM17?
Click to expand...

Hi Het2,

I came back here to re-read this thread after seeing your private message. I have decided not to buy FM17; my FM16 save turned into a journeyman career which I have really enjoyed at times and become bored and frustrated with at other times. But having gained a strong reputation as a manager while only actually winning the Championship (with Aston Villa), I've decided to take my services to Blackpool in League Two - with the ambition of taking them all the way to the European Champions League title by the time FM18 comes out!

The key for any set of tactics is to get as many players as possible playing in their preferred positions, roles and duties. If you have young players with the kind of potential that makes you want to build your team around them, then train them in the PPMs that suit their positions. Also retrain young players to play alternative positions, where appropriate, to strengthen the options in your squad.

I have my squads train on 4-3-3, 4-4-2 with False-9 and 4-4-1-1 with Shadow Striker. I then make sure that my squad has two players per position for the 4-3-3 plus a Target Man, a False-9, a Shadow Striker and at least one winger who can play AM(R/L/C) - that makes 26 players, so at least one of them needs to be under 21 years (in the Premier League).

It's also wise to have one of your DMs as a Ball-Winning Midfielder who can operate in both the DM and M(C) positions, and a Deep-Lying Playmaker who can do likewise; this gives you flexibility in terms of how high up the pitch you want to try and win the ball back. With the DLP in the DM position, he gets a little more space from which to quarterback long passes out to the wings, like Michael Carrick. Useful when you expect to dominate possession and want to maintain pressure in the opposition's half. When you need to defend a bit more, the BWM should be in the DM position.

Don't be too proud to switch everything to a defensive setting when you need to protect leading positions, or even to hold on for a point away from home, for the last 6 minutes or so. If you defend well but leave a fast player forward, you will increase your chances of hanging on and you'll even knick the odd late goal to secure the points. Again, get as many players as possible to operate in their preferred positions, roles and duties to limit the risk of mistakes.

If you're managing in England, I'd also recommend having a season or two in charge of the England U21s - you can apply for the job when the incumbent gets the sack. It will help you to identify who the good players are and give you the opportunity to build relationships with them. Those at the very top clubs will often become available on loan or via the transfer list when a Johnny Foreigner blocks their path to the first team. I did this and two seasons later I had about 7 of those players in my Aston Villa squad in the Premier League. Should have stayed with them but got my head turned by Real Madrid...

But if you want to post screenshots of your current FM17 set-up in this thread then I'll take a look and give you any suggestions that I might have.
 
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Hi Rocheyb!

Thanks for the in depth reply, great to see you got my message I couldn't find it after I had sent iso I wasn't sure if had been sent or not, thus I commented here. Interesting hear you won't be getting FM17, ill miss your tactical input for 17 but good luck at Blackpool!

Your advice has been great and I feel like I have followed it already. I make sure everyone plays their natural role and have a DM who is a also a BWM/Defensive Mid and can play M(C) and I have a deep lying player who can play both DM/M(C). Havnt tried putting the DLP in the DM strata as I had a horrible experience truing that in FM, just couldn't get it to work. I also tend to go to contain in the last 10 minutes if I am winning which seems to work.

Interesting idea of working with the England U21s might have a lot into that in the future, I see where you are coming from there.

Here is what I am working with. Piggy backed from here since my later FM16 days, however it has always been my football tactical vision.

View attachment 117526

Things I have slightly changed are:

I like to play high press game, almost like a gegenpress so added that to to the tactic which naturally makes me play a higher defense line. I make sure atleast one of my CBs have decent pace positioning and anticipation for me to allow this.

I also used narrow width on my FM16 tactic and was doing it on FM17 which worked well, but placing FBs on 'stay wider' which allowed me to cramped space in the middle of the park for then the fullbacks on my RWa to exploit the space in the on the flanks. -- However I am now gone to the 'fairly wide' you have here as I just had misread this tactic when I first saw it haha.


View attachment 117525View attachment 117524

Now this is the squad I inherited at York after spending one year in the NZ Premiership and had success with my tactic. (Sorry for the split images had problems uploading the one pic image)

Now the biggest problems ive ran into is just now taking our chances. Everything looks great and works pretty good but we have about 3x the amount of chances to the average team but we may be lucky to score 1 maybe 2 goals, (with the odd game bagging 4ish).

Now I like the DLFa as he is everything I picture my forward I want to be, however he gets very low ratings if not scoring, recently trying the TMa as I want that to work but always read that TMa alone up front is not going to work. My youngster on the bench Wardle is a AF and when he comes on, I have been using him at a AF and has scored 1 goal in 2 sub appearances which isnt bad considering that is maybe a total of 25 mins.

Wingers I like, everywhere ive been the Wa gets the best rating, I like to him be rapid and direct (think Sadio Mane) and I always get someone with 15+pace/acc. and has some of the perfect ppms for him to be direct. Felix, the player I have now is perfect, has 17 acceleration and ppms of; 'gets forward whenever possible', 'knocks ball past opponent' and 'runs with ball often' I just need him to get 'sticks
to right side of pitch when dribbling' maybe.

Midfield: The DLP always does well. The more advanced midfielder was the APa on fm16 but that has not been working so have tried B2B with player instruction of 'get forward more' and tried CMa as I feel maybe of our issues regarding us not taking our chances is not enough people in the box. I normally use DMd as our holding mid but have switch him to support in effort of just getting more players forward.

Defence always has been steady, nothing great but not bad. Everywhere ive been the LBa does very well and racks in the assist and high match ratings. One problem with this team though is the LBa has poor crossing and is the more defensive minded fullback as our right backs like to get forward more. But, like you, I have always like my LB to be the one to bomb forward. Crossings of the my fullbacks/wingers are all varied as you have recommend. My LBa set to far post works a treat.


Hope any of this is useful for you to give you any suggestions for me. Look forward to hearing from you!

Henry
 
Hi Henry,

Thanks for your message. Yeah - I was only with England U21s for four matches. It was World Cup Qualifiers and the matches were easy, but I got to know who the best young players were at U21 and U19 level (players that I might promote into the U21s) and overcame the Premier League restrictions regarding homegrown players by targeting the best members of that squad.

On your tactics, the thing that stood out to me regarding the Team Level instructions was that you're doing Gegenpressing with a Normal tempo and team-wide instructions to Run With the Ball. I was a Southampton season ticket holder during the Nigel Adkins-Mauricio Pochettino eras, and I sat four rows from the back of the stadium precisely because I like to see how the whole team operates - not just the player on the ball. High tempo passing is a feature of Gegenpressing when you are looking to control possession and operate mainly in the other team's half of the pitch. Jurgen Klopp's version had his Borussia Dortmund team - and, of course, now Liverpool - pressing hard in defensive and midfield areas and then springing into the final third with fast dribbling and incisive angled passes. Your tactics seem to be half-way between the two. Judge it on results, of course, but I'd consider whether my team (and particularly the attacking players) was better at passing or dribbling and modify to suit one or the other.

You Play Out of Defence; do you also have your Goalkeeper rolling the ball out to your full backs?

As with many of my FM tactical ideas, my selection of 'Fairly Wide' was based on my interpretation of how Southampton play, particularly when we had Morgan Schneiderlin getting the ball wide from the midfield and with Luke Shaw operating as a wing back on the left while Clyne was a more conventional full-back with license to attack when appropriate. I've never really experimented with the Width setting as perhaps I should.

At Centre Back, I always put them in whichever role/duty is their preference. I like to have one Stopper alongside a Ball-Playing Defender, but if the talents of the two players in the team don't suit those roles I'll switch to what they want to do. Having the DM in-front of them is crucial when you want to defend and hold on to a win or a point.

Is your Box-to-Box Midfielder getting into shooting positions often enough, or at least contributing positively to your attacking moves? With a DM and a DLP sitting in there already, do you need the defensive contribution of the B2B? I play with an Advanced Playmaker alongside a Deep-Lying Playmaker, both with instructions to Switch the Ball to the Flanks.

The Deep-Lying Forward works well with a Shadow Striker. For one upfront, I prefer the Complete Forward_Support. If he's good at dribbling with the ball he will maraud around the No.10 area and into the penalty area to create chances for himself, with the wingers looking to snaffle up any rebounds.

Dominating possession and creating more chances than the opposition is a perennial problem in FM. Sometimes, it's a question of tempo and the kind of crosses that you're putting into the box. Other times, it requires a change of approach and that's why I also have the team trained up to play 4-4-2 where I can replace the DM with a False-9; if my CF_Support can also play as an Advanced Forward_Attack then I effectively go from stretching the opposition across the width of the pitch to stretching them in the length (they have stopped my crosses; can they also stop my throughballs?), with the AF playing off the shoulder of the last man and the F-9 hitting More Direct Passes for his strike partner to run on to. But it's also a question of individual player quality. When managing in the Championship, I'll often have young players on loan from bigger clubs who do so well during their time in my first team that they immediately become out of my reach the moment they return to their parent club, and I've had a couple of 25+ goal strikers who have made the difference in these close matches when every other chance bounced of defenders, posts, goalkeepers and passing stray dogs! If the opposition doesn't have a DM, then switching to a system that employs somebody in the No.10 position can also bring some joy, particularly if others are making attacking runs for him to supply.

It's inevitable that one or two players won't suit your preferred system. Just try to get the best out of them until you can replace them with somebody more suitable. In Lower League Management, it's better to sign players on one or two year contracts, in anticipation of winning promotion and having to rebuild the squad every couple of years. I could list dozens of players who did an excellent job for Southampton during our recent spell in League One and the Championship, none of whom were ever good enough for the Premier League but they were more than solid for us at the time.
 
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