Possession, pressing, close down, the false 9 and other thinkings

[miguelalves]

Hi,

I'm posting some ideas looking for some brainstorming in order to get solutions about the issues in the title. Not that I have problems with having possession, it's a kind of easy even in this FM. Talking about possession, obvious that I'm a fan of possession football and of Pep's Barcelona and I know there's a lot of issues regarding the replicating this style in FM. There are also a lot of tactics proclaiming to be tiki-taka tactics but proclaiming and being one there's a lot of difference.
So, moving on...

As for possession, FM presents us a problem: in football any team would drop their defence lines when facing Barcelona; in FM this just doesn't happen, so that question must be: when managing a strong team, how to keep possession against another strong team ??? The opponent will not drop their defence line and playing our team with a higher defence line its a risky option because we would probably face balls in the back of our defenders; on the other hand, if we set our defence line to be more deep the opponent will have more space to move around the ball resulting in loss of possession. Where is the ideal or the best option ???

Another problem is related to increase or slow tempo: a slower tempo means that our players will hold more the ball increasing the risk of being tackled or alowing the opponent to close down our players; but a higher tempo will also mean much hurry in passing resulting in wrong passes. Once again, what would be the best option ???

Then there's the problem of closing down: more could mean our players being dragged from their positions resulting in more space to be explored; less... well, its obvious.

Finally, when FM was released everybody was happy to see that there was a new role to fit in Messi, the False 9. It seems that the F9 is not a good solution to play alone in the attack and the best option is to team up in another forward. So, there is still a question about the best role to set to this player. Right now, I'm going along with a Target Man / Support with ppm to drop deeper.

I'm finishing by saying that in my point of view and looking for FM, if I want a Pep's Barcelona style the strategy must be Control and a very fluid philosophy. Patience in passing the ball with a low risk and I want my players to attack when in possession and all of them to defend when not having the ball. When thinking about a possession style the general trend is to talk about ccc's, attacking and so on, but I think it's not. If you want possession you've got think to recover the ball fast and keep it and this has to do with defending because the main idea must be recover the ball the fastest way possible. Unfortunately there isn't still an option in FM to press the ball - not man marking, not zonal marking, but always to press the ball wherever it is.

Any ideas are very welcome

 

[Hansi24]

Acording to tempo i've always figured that higher tempo is for teams who are sitting deep, and when they have the ball, they are going to be going forward very fast(contra).
And then lower tempo is for teams who are playing the ball around and looking to gain possesion.

I haven't thought about all the factors, but this was just at the top of my head.

 

[miguelalves]

Could some moderator move this thread to Tactics, I think I misplaced it. Thanks.

 

[Scotty98TR]

The tempo thing is something I think needs to be seperated in future FMs (As it has needed to be for a while now), into something along the lines of: Passing Urgency, and Time on the Ball. As in real life, if you look at Barca they tend to play one, maybe 2 touch passing passing the ball around very quickly... but they are very patient to get the ball forward. Therefore would that be a high or low tempo?

As according to the game, a high tempo means they will look to get the ball foward quickly, and won't spend much time on the ball. But a low tempo means they will be more patient to get the ball forward, but will hold onto the ball more. Whereas in real life, Barca are a mix: They are patient to get the ball forward, but they don't spend much time on the ball.

 

[JimmyGuitarist]

The only way to remotely re-create the kind of pressing is by using the man-marking. Get your striker to man-mark one of the CB's, the wingers man-marking the fullbacks & central midfielders obviously to mark opposing central midfielders. Don't man-mark wingers or any forward players. This method can leave you very exposed but it's worth it if you really want your team to hunt for the ball in opponent territory while they're building out of the back. And also in opposition instructions, "closing down" & "hard tackling" for everyone. It might seem incredibly intuitive but for reasons up to the FM game engine, to remotely emphasise really "getting in the face of your opponent", it needs to be done.

As for tempo, it's good to have tactics which are fluid for a both tempo's. I don't necessarily see that "much higher tempo" goes against a possession game, there just seems to be more risk of a player sending a pass in the completely wrong direction, but you need to give your team time to get fluid at it. I sometimes use a "much higher tempo" for home games, & sometimes in away games if opponents are pressing high.

And the False 9 role didn't work for me. I thought I might actually now be able to have a forward who actually joins in with the midfield play, but it didn't work. All he seemed to do was play as a striker & constantly take long-shots. I'm now using Deep-Lying Forward with a Support duty which has stopped the long-shot problem.

 

[miguelalves]

The tempo thing is something I think needs to be seperated in future FMs (As it has needed to be for a while now), into something along the lines of: Passing Urgency, and Time on the Ball. As in real life, if you look at Barca they tend to play one, maybe 2 touch passing passing the ball around very quickly... but they are very patient to get the ball forward. Therefore would that be a high or low tempo?

As according to the game, a high tempo means they will look to get the ball foward quickly, and won't spend much time on the ball. But a low tempo means they will be more patient to get the ball forward, but will hold onto the ball more. Whereas in real life, Barca are a mix: They are patient to get the ball forward, but they don't spend much time on the ball.

Barca did something that I think it's impossible to replicate in FM: they would increase or decrease tempo according to the zone of the pitch they were passing the ball.

 

[miguelalves]

The only way to remotely re-create the kind of pressing is by using the man-marking. Get your striker to man-mark one of the CB's, the wingers man-marking the fullbacks & central midfielders obviously to mark opposing central midfielders. Don't man-mark wingers or any forward players. This method can leave you very exposed but it's worth it if you really want your team to hunt for the ball in opponent territory while they're building out of the back. And also in opposition instructions, "closing down" & "hard tackling" for everyone. It might seem incredibly intuitive but for reasons up to the FM game engine, to remotely emphasise really "getting in the face of your opponent", it needs to be done.

As for tempo, it's good to have tactics which are fluid for a both tempo's. I don't necessarily see that "much higher tempo" goes against a possession game, there just seems to be more risk of a player sending a pass in the completely wrong direction, but you need to give your team time to get fluid at it. I sometimes use a "much higher tempo" for home games, & sometimes in away games if opponents are pressing high.

And the False 9 role didn't work for me. I thought I might actually now be able to have a forward who actually joins in with the midfield play, but it didn't work. All he seemed to do was play as a striker & constantly take long-shots. I'm now using Deep-Lying Forward with a Support duty which has stopped the long-shot problem.

I think the F9 works better with an AF next to him, it's a role to use with 2 forwards.

I have been trying to avoid the man-marking, but I guess I will give it a try. Also, the Control strategy doesn't seem to work as good as before due to the impossibility of customizing tactics like in fm13. I think it could be easier to start with an attacking strategy and customize instructions to have more possession.

 

[Scotty98TR]

Barca did something that I think it's impossible to replicate in FM: they would increase or decrease tempo according to the zone of the pitch they were passing the ball.

Most of what Barca did is impossible to recreate on FM unfortunatly (As is the majority of other unique styles of playing)