Second World War..

[rosenrot]

I was doing this in my seminar today and we touched on the subject of the Final Solution (Holocaust)

Do you think the Holocaust would have gone ahead if Hitler wasn't in charge?

Also Do you think the Final Solution was well planned or just happened?

Theres two views to this; Intentionalist - Was It Hitlers eventual plan to launch the holocaust? or Structuralist - Or did they just take events as they came, as they didn't have a defined plan of what would happen?

 

[Robbo]

It ddnt just happen, and i cnt imagine it would of happened had it not been for the Nazis being in power.

 

[rosenrot]

No i agree, if they hadn't of been in power it wouldn't have happened, then again i don't think it would have happened on such a huge scale if the propaganda surrounding hitler wasnt as successful.

 

[ajw]

Do u do history or politics or something in uni Rosenrot??

The second world war and the Holocaust definetly would not have happened like it did if Hitler never came to power. Alot of what Hitler did just 'happen' because the structure of the Third Reich was not as good as some make out. I doubt in 1933 he decided that come the start of the 40s I'll exterminate millions of Jews in concentration camps. However I do think he did always have some general plan to get rid of as many as possible, and the Final Solution was the 'Final Solution' of the plans and hatred of Jews

 

[Point/Counterpoint]

If I remember rightly I once read a source, that was evidence for it just being a gradual shift from segregation & prejudice to murder. Therefore, agreeing with the structuralist approach. Personally, it's a fact that Hitler despised the Jewish and made them completely outcast - he probably dreamt of murdering them every night. In other words I think it was more he had plans once he was in power to murder the Jewish. However, if Hitler wasn't in charge I don't think there would have been a holocaust.

 

[Robbo]

yeah i think he probably did in 1933 have plans for the extermination, but would he of been so popular had he announced this from the start. I know he was openly anti-semitic but announing genocide could of hindered his chance of gaining power.

 

[James]

It wouldn't of happened without hitler no was hsi idea to make the ideal race and all. I'm sure he had some idea of being a facist and wanting to invade countries before he took power. He convinced poor Germans who had nothing to live for that what he wanted to do was right for Germany.

Best propaganda poster I saw was the one about Jesus hating Jews. haha can make people believe anything

 

[Point/Counterpoint]

Best propaganda was probably a film named "The Eternal Jew", all German soldiers were forced to watch it, it pictured Jews alongside vermin. I don't understand how they actually fell for it all though. Honestly, the nation must have been so gullible.

 

[rosenrot]

Well when the country is bombarded with anti semitic propaganda everyday you just get used to it..it was probably the norm for most german people.

Do u do history or politics or something in uni Rosenrot??

The second world war and the Holocaust definetly would not have happened like it did if Hitler never came to power. Alot of what Hitler did just 'happen' because the structure of the Third Reich was not as good as some make out. I doubt in 1933 he decided that come the start of the 40s I'll exterminate millions of Jews in concentration camps. However I do think he did always have some general plan to get rid of as many as possible, and the Final Solution was the 'Final Solution' of the plans and hatred of Jews

Yea i do Modern History.

But yea, i don't think the whole thing was intentional, but rather they took events as it came, the Third Reich was terribly unorganised and there was layer after layer of ministries competing over each other when many of them did the same thing, trying to gain Hitlers Loyalty.

His original plan was to send them all to Madagascar but after the attempt to defeat the British failed, he had to come up with another plan, tho by that time it was people below him who were making the policies he didnt bother to look at them just signed them.