Steadfast - A flat 4141. Central Overloading on 19.2

Rosler71

Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2014
Messages
110
Reaction score
11
Points
18
Steadfast - A flat 4141.***v2 update 01-01-19

Formation Overview


Often the de rigueur choice for difficult away games, particularly employed by European teams for the away leg of Champions League/Europa League knockouts the 4141 and its brother the 451 offer a solid platform for controlling the midfield with easy possession whilst defensively being difficult to play through.


When deployed with ambition, as we do here, the wide players are thrown forward creating a 433 when attacking.


True counter-attacking is difficult as your lone Striker has to do much of the work himself, so instead we rely on a ‘delayed counter’ with some incisive flank play to get us in behind where we can feed balls to our Striker, opposing Winger and our midfielders with their late runs into the box.




Here, a key feature of the tactic is playing through the false 9, he drops as he’s supposed to and feeds the onrushing central midfielders who often find themselves on the end of a chance.


Our Wide Midfielders are instructed to sit narrow to became auxiliary strikers at times,so in other words, we get enough players into the box quickly enough for us to attack effectively.


Over all it’s a very compact formation, with good cover in key areas of the pitch whilst ensuring attacks are supported quickly.


Getting the upperhand


Aside from just throwing together some roles & duties I like to try and create an‘effect’ or combination of effects which yields results noticeably better than when that ‘effect’ is absent.


An obvious example is combining a high line with an urgent press. Whilst both instructions are useful in isolation, when combined their positive effects are amplified.


Here are some of the ideas I’ve tried to implement into the tactic.


The Forward Pivot


The ‘Pivot’, if one is used, is normally in the DM or AMC position. Here we are using our Striker, with a narrow midfield 4, play focused through the middle we can feed our Striker with his back to goal who can pick out one of the onrushing midfielders before turning and supporting the attack.


When not on the ball we are looking for his movement to displace defenders, disrupt the structure of the defence creating space for our midfielders.


A feature of the tactic is spreading the goal scoring burden across the front 5, we can expect double figures for all of them in a good season.

Turning Harry Kane into an assist machine. All from open play.




The ‘False 6’


The use of a Half Back has a number of ‘knock on’ effects which to my mind allows for the safest yet most incisive way to play out from the back.


Whilst we might have a romanticised vision of our Half Back breaking up play before pinging pin point diagonals up the pitch, the true value is in the‘passive’ effects his presence creates.


As well as splitting the Centre Backs as described below, he tends to get heavily pressed when on the ball. In fact we want him pressed as this opens up midfield and he will always have a couple of easy lateral passes available to the Split Centre backs who should now have multiple options in front of them, more often than not up the line to his near sided Wingback or he may even bypass him and go straight for our Wide Midfielder.


Whilst no more effective than an Anchor Man or Defensive Midfielder in the defensive phase, the true benefit of our Half Back is in building attacks. His triggering of formation changes set in motion positive effects which help us play through the thirds hopefully resulting in a chance for us to score.


Overloading the flanks early


The effect of the Half Back coming deep, the Centre Backs splitting, the Wingbacks pushing up the flanks putting them in close proximity to our Wide Midfielders gives us a very early overload on both flanks.


This is a dangerous situation for our opponent with only an astute pass or 1-2 seeing one of our wide players in open space running in behind our opponents defence. Better yet, as the defence is drawn to the ball this leaves our opposing Wide Midfielders in acres of space and available for a spectacular long diagonal pass seeing him with even more space to attack.


At this point our False 9 should be intelligent finding a pocket of space, pulling defenders with him creating yet more space for our Box to Box guys to run into on the edge of the penalty area.


Results. (Season 1, no transfers)














Corners – the routine is set up for your Right Backs to take corners.


Throw In’s – Right Backs to take right throw in’s, Left Backs to take left throw in’s


NO OI's
 
Last edited:
Plugged this in at half time against Feyenoord (was 0-0 at the time). Absolutely love how solid it is defensively. Was very shocked/pleased how comfortable the Feyenoord, Dinamo and Ajax games turned out.
View attachment 26946

The player stats are aren't a accurate representation due to using a different tactic first but its got my striker firing at last.

View attachment 26945
Only player I've brought in was the free lad and promoted some youth players.

View attachment 26944

Bare in mind its a young squad its coming along well. Bring on the rest of the season!
 
Thanks for the feedback,

yes, you should see some nice runs of clean sheets.

Looks like your midfielders are starting to get their goals;)
 
I am not getting same results as you did with Tottenham, What kind of Match prep did you use?
 
I've been using this tactic for a while, got it from the SI forums. A good solid tactic for middling/underdog teams.

View attachment 26640
View attachment 26639
View attachment 26638

Champions League place with Bournemouth, no transfers in. Not bad at all. Only one really terrible result, lost 6-1 to Chelsea in the FA Cup Quarter final, but that was 2-1 until Bournemouth had a man sent off in the 70th minute and fell apart.

Goals and assists pretty well spread, the two wingers did well with bursting into the box.

Finished top in goals from corner, short corners every game and not once did the AI bother to close down a short corner.
 
Love this tactic, thx for the good work!

Playing with Millwall, tested lots of tactics, for me, this one works very well.

Solid defense, nice offense, fun to watch!
 
So I've moved over to Italy and started a save with Lazio.. It seems there's more than a couple teams that like to stick 8 men behind the ball and shithouse their way through.

Usually in this sort of formation
View attachment 25729

it pretty much takes my striker out the game which has a knock on effect to the midfield etc.

Any ideas on what I could change? I'd rather not switch to a different tactic completely for these games. I was half hoping your 442 version was going to come and save the day but sadly not.
 
Hi Jonesy,

Good old Italians!

I have an updated v2 up over on the SI forums (will update here when i get back form work). A few more goals scored on that and a few less conceded.

Failing that, my preferred 442 set up is using 2 false 9's and dropping the central midfielders to the DM position using the Segundo Volante/Support > role/duty in both positions.

Everything else would remain the same so its easy enough to tweak the 4141 (but use the v2 as basis).

I would only do this if you are a 'Champions League' quality team in your division as its quite open and you are relying on superior player quality to overcome defensive frailties, you score a lot of goals though.

I've taken my Stockport Team from non league to the Premier League using only my own academy products (no signings) using the 4141. Just finished my first season in the Premier League in 13th position.

Once I get a Champions League finish, realistically 3 or 4 more seasons as my players develop, i'll switch up to the 442 and give it my full attention but it likley wont be far off what i suggested above, already run a few successful tests with it using top teams.
 
Last edited:
Cheers for the reply, Im actually using the latest version (I follow the SI thread but couldn't make an account over there for some reason).

Well I'm fighting out for the league in feb with the usual suspects and doing ok in Europa League so I'd probably say I'm just below champions league quality. I will be having a squad overhaul end of the season though, few of the old guard moving on etc so should hopefully have a champions league squad then.

I'll stick the 442 tweaks in now ready for next season when I'll probably implement your training regiem too.
 
So I've finished the season and what a finish it was! 3rd to last game of the season 1 point behind Inter.. Who I beat with a 91st min winner! They went on to play me old mates Roma the next game and only managed to draw while I won at Spal..Wrapping up Serie A for me.
View attachment 25673

Was unlucky in the Europa League going out on pens to Chelsea, was struggling with some injuries at the time though
View attachment 25672

I used this tactic only from the Napoli game (I used it most of the season but ****** around a bit with other tactics half way through)
View attachment 25671

Some of the team Stats etc
View attachment 25670

As far as transfers go I lost Bastos, who was first choice, half way through as he wanted the riches of China. Turned down some big bids in January for Immobile, Alberto and Savic of course. Im actually hoping to move the first two on now as neither really fit. Immoible PPMS ruin him in this tactic or he'd be perfect imo. Highly unlikely I'll be able to keep Savic either as PSG and Man City have been scouting him most of the season.


The only signing I made was a young lad Cardoso in Jan but he was barely used as he was brought in for next season.
View attachment 25669


Now for the squad rebuild hopefully..
 
Good work Jonesy ;)

Original post updated with v2 +attached here.
 
Last edited:
So the squad rebuild is pretty much done. Turns out everyone I wanted gone is still here lol.

Had a look at what you said regarding player types on the SI thread and tried to take it on board, Especially regarding the wide men and having a out and out winger/ more of a playmaker type on each side, same with the strikers.

Got 2 completely different line ups as I always do now.

First choice. Second String
View attachment 25562 View attachment 25561

Far as the transfers go..
View attachment 25560

Miguel Reisinho, Bilel Hassaini, Cosimo Marco Da Graca, Álex Centelles are all youth who'll just be getting a few games here and there or going out on loan. Also still trying to shift a few players out but nobody seems to be interested even for loans.
 
Top