Tactic starting to decline.

[svaibhavlfc]

I used this tactic in my first season and managed to finish second with Liverpool.
In the second season, I noticed that my attack has really declined and just somehow managed to finish fourth.

Just before getting my third season underway, could anyone just help me out with it.

This is my tactic:

View attachment 336369View attachment 336368

 

[rocheyb]

I used this tactic in my first season and managed to finish second with Liverpool.
In the second season, I noticed that my attack has really declined and just somehow managed to finish fourth.

Just before getting my third season underway, could anyone just help me out with it.

This is my tactic:

View attachment 688155View attachment 688158

It's not that there is anything inherently wrong with the tactic itself, but you have to remember that within the artificial world of FM the other managers are just as capable as you of having your team scouted and preparing their players to face you. That's why I always have three sets of tactics on-the-go and I review them every close season, thinking about how the strengths and weaknesses of my new signings (or players that I have promoted from the youth ranks) differ from the outgoing players - and what the knock-on effect might be to my squad overall. Generally, I replace one tactic each summer and get it drilled into them during the pre-season campaign.

From your current situation, I would look to develop a version of 5-3-2 with genuine wing-backs in the DM line and another variation of 4-5-1, perhaps with a stronger DM base and pushing Tom Ince into the AM_L Attack position. It will help you to rotate your squad and provide options for retraining younger players to operate in alternative positions, which will help you in the longer term.

Then you have to be clever about choosing which formation to play against each opponent. Over time, the Past Meetings list will give you a strong steer but beware clubs that have recently changed their manager and now play a new system, and make sure you assign one of your scouts to report on Next Opponents from match-to-match. You'll find that certain systems work well against specific tactics - and by retraining players as I mentioned, your ability to switch from one tactic to another during a match will be that much greater.

When you start doing this successfully and building up a run of consecutive wins, the post-match reports will praise your tactical genius and your ability to keep the opposition guessing - which I think indicates that SI have incorporated tactical flexibility into the game as a virtue.

 

[svaibhavlfc]

Cheers mate, It was really helpful.

 

[svaibhavlfc]

It's not that there is anything inherently wrong with the tactic itself, but you have to remember that within the artificial world of FM the other managers are just as capable as you of having your team scouted and preparing their players to face you. That's why I always have three sets of tactics on-the-go and I review them every close season, thinking about how the strengths and weaknesses of my new signings (or players that I have promoted from the youth ranks) differ from the outgoing players - and what the knock-on effect might be to my squad overall. Generally, I replace one tactic each summer and get it drilled into them during the pre-season campaign.

From your current situation, I would look to develop a version of 5-3-2 with genuine wing-backs in the DM line and another variation of 4-5-1, perhaps with a stronger DM base and pushing Tom Ince into the AM_L Attack position. It will help you to rotate your squad and provide options for retraining younger players to operate in alternative positions, which will help you in the longer term.

Then you have to be clever about choosing which formation to play against each opponent. Over time, the Past Meetings list will give you a strong steer but beware clubs that have recently changed their manager and now play a new system, and make sure you assign one of your scouts to report on Next Opponents from match-to-match. You'll find that certain systems work well against specific tactics - and by retraining players as I mentioned, your ability to switch from one tactic to another during a match will be that much greater.

When you start doing this successfully and building up a run of consecutive wins, the post-match reports will praise your tactical genius and your ability to keep the opposition guessing - which I think indicates that SI have incorporated tactical flexibility into the game as a virtue.

Should I try removing exploit the flanks?

 

[rocheyb]

Should I try removing exploit the flanks?

Not necessarily. All of my tactics use Exploit The Flanks and have central midfielders playing More Direct Passes - within my otherwise short-passing, possession-based style - to move the ball around quickly and exploit space as and when it appears.

In my 4-4-1-1 with a Shadow Striker behind a Deep-Lying Forward, I am dependent on good service from the wings and the aerial prowess of my 6'4" SS and 6'0" DLF.

In my 4-2DM-1-2-1, I have a World Class Advanced Playmaker_Attack in the M(C) position who can run at teams through the centre, picking the ball up in deep positions to gain the sort of momentum that puts defenders on the wrong foot, out-of-position or in the referee's notebook - with wingers in the AM line offering width high up the pitch, if required. The left-sided AM operates as a right-footed Inside Forward_Support with instructions to Sit Narrower, while Luke Shaw overlaps from Full-Back (Left)_Attack. I also have a conventional Left Winger who I swap in as AM_Attack and set Shaw back to DL_Support when I want to protect a lead.

In my 5-3-2 system, I have two genuine wing-backs either side of a Regista_Support in the DM line; a BWM_Support and that AP_Attack in M(C) positions; and an Advanced Forward_Attack alongside a Deep-Lying Forward_Support / False-9_Support up top - with my left-footed AF playing on the left of the two, for better accuracy when shooting from the inside-left channel. The Regista helps to establish possession high up the pitch so the wing backs can push on and my AP can look for pockets in the No.10 region while the BWM picks up scraps and closes down any miss-placed passes. This achieves a high press and an all-angles attack - with three at the back providing assurance against the counter.

None of these systems are perfect, but I populate my bench with players that enable me to switch mid-match if things are not going my way, and I use the Scouting Reports, Past Meetings List and my own memory to do my research on upcoming opponents match-by-match (sometimes a couple of games ahead if I want to rotate my squad to keep certain players fit for an upcoming big match).

My Southampton team is the current European and World Club Champion, and top of the Premier League (which I have only won twice, so far) at the end of January 2026 - so it's fair to say that my system is working:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...3194-diary-season-st-marys-redemption-37.html

 

[svaibhavlfc]

Not necessarily. All of my tactics use Exploit The Flanks and have central midfielders playing More Direct Passes - within my otherwise short-passing, possession-based style - to move the ball around quickly and exploit space as and when it appears.

In my 4-4-1-1 with a Shadow Striker behind a Deep-Lying Forward, I am dependent on good service from the wings and the aerial prowess of my 6'4" SS and 6'0" DLF.

In my 4-2DM-1-2-1, I have a World Class Advanced Playmaker_Attack in the M(C) position who can run at teams through the centre, picking the ball up in deep positions to gain the sort of momentum that puts defenders on the wrong foot, out-of-position or in the referee's notebook - with wingers in the AM line offering width high up the pitch, if required. The left-sided AM operates as a right-footed Inside Forward_Support with instructions to Sit Narrower, while Luke Shaw overlaps from Full-Back (Left)_Attack. I also have a conventional Left Winger who I swap in as AM_Attack and set Shaw back to DL_Support when I want to protect a lead.

In my 5-3-2 system, I have two genuine wing-backs either side of a Regista_Support in the DM line; a BWM_Support and that AP_Attack in M(C) positions; and an Advanced Forward_Attack alongside a Deep-Lying Forward_Support / False-9_Support up top - with my left-footed AF playing on the left of the two, for better accuracy when shooting from the inside-left channel. The Regista helps to establish possession high up the pitch so the wing backs can push on and my AP can look for pockets in the No.10 region while the BWM picks up scraps and closes down any miss-placed passes. This achieves a high press and an all-angles attack - with three at the back providing assurance against the counter.

None of these systems are perfect, but I populate my bench with players that enable me to switch mid-match if things are not going my way, and I use the Scouting Reports, Past Meetings List and my own memory to do my research on upcoming opponents match-by-match (sometimes a couple of games ahead if I want to rotate my squad to keep certain players fit for an upcoming big match).

My Southampton team is the current European and World Club Champion, and top of the Premier League (which I have only won twice, so far) at the end of January 2026 - so it's fair to say that my system is working:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...3194-diary-season-st-marys-redemption-37.html

Okay so I have completed 4 seasons now and still the manager in charge special thanks to you for that for all your advice.
These are the league tables of past 4 seasons:

View attachment 334052View attachment 334051View attachment 334050View attachment 334049


Now for my fourth season I was really luck to pull out a top 4 finish (This is my start to 4th season so you'll have an idea):

View attachment 334048View attachment 334047View attachment 334046


Now my question are:

1) Any changes you would like to suggest for tough away games specially in CL (never gone past quarter finals)
2)These are my future Coutinho and Suarez, the AMC has done pretty good in his first season. How to get best of striker?
View attachment 334045View attachment 334044

3)This is my alternate 3 CB's tactic which you suggested to create but has given me mixed results.
View attachment 334043View attachment 334042

 

[Igneos79]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just comment on the OP. I see you want to do a passing game. For that, mentality should be standard. With control, you are actually asking your forwards to do more direct passess, so shortening the passess is actually conflicting. With standard, everyone is on same passing, so there is no confilct. Your tempo for a passing game should be lower or much lower. Shortening the passes decreases width, and width and tempo are linked. Next, your right winger has an attack duty which creates a gap between him and CMs who stays mostly in the middle, and gaps you want to avoid. Same goes for your central defenders. A stopper duty should go next to more agressive fullback, unless you have a DM above him. Also, you may want to avoid mentality changing TI, like exploit the flanks. It will just push your wingers even higher and create a larger gap. Look for overlap also changes mentality, just like clear ball to flanks and pump ball into box, and you may want to avoid them aswell. Mentality changing instructions should be used when certain conditions on the pitch arise, not as a default tactic. Crosses should depened on whether your striker is a number nine (drill) or a number ten (float), and yours is a number ten.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just comment on the OP. I see you want to do a passing game. For that, mentality should be standard. With control, you are actually asking your forwards to do more direct passess, so shortening the passess is actually conflicting. With standard, everyone is on same passing, so there is no confilct. Your tempo for a passing game should be lower or much lower. Shortening the passes decreases width, and width and tempo are linked. Next, your right winger has an attack duty which creates a gap between him and CMs who stays mostly in the middle, and gaps you want to avoid. Same goes for your central defenders. A stopper duty should go next to more agressive fullback, unless you have a DM above him. Also, you may want to avoid mentality changing TI, like exploit the flanks and look for overlap. Crosses should depened on whether your striker is a number nine (drill) or a number ten (float), and yours is a number ten.

I have no problems with Short Passing + High Tempo + Control. Won the BPL and Champions League with Arsenal on my first season

View attachment 334011

 

[Igneos79]

I have no problems with Short Passing + High Tempo + Control. Won the BPL and Champions League with Arsenal on my first season

View attachment 693974

Well, I'm looking for perfection. My tactics usually work with teams all levels. Try yours with a weak team, and you will soon see where you are going wrong.

 

[SmoothJitsu]

Well, I'm looking for perfection. My tactics usually work with teams all levels. Try yours with a weak team, and you will soon see where you are going wrong.

I just try to create tactics for every kind of team.. Usually have a few projects , Slow tempo possesion, High tempo direct football and on and on. I don't think one tactic can be sucessfull for every team.. Just look at Sir Goalalot's tactic. i used it about 6 times in this save and lost badly 5 of team and drew the other one.

Edit: Could you take a quick look at my tactic though, what would make it better in your opinion? This question might sound stupid but is using 2 playmakers somehow lowering the tempo of my team? because the other players look to give them the ball more (obviously) rather than make the forward splitting pass.

 

[Igneos79]

I just try to create tactics for every kind of team.. Usually have a few projects , Slow tempo possesion, High tempo direct football and on and on. I don't think one tactic can be sucessfull for every team.. Just look at Sir Goalalot's tactic. i used it about 6 times in this save and lost badly 5 of team and drew the other one.

Edit: Could you take a quick look at my tactic though, what would make it better in your opinion? This question might sound stupid but is using 2 playmakers somehow lowering the tempo of my team? because the other players look to give them the ball more (obviously) rather than make the forward splitting pass.

Look, the only proper way to play this game is not to go against the match engine. Match engine simulates RL football, so it's true in RL aswell. You can't order your players to play both wider and narrower, for example. It's a conflicting order, and whilst great players will still win the match, because they are simply that better then opponents, you wont have success with others. Control mentality means ME will change passing to more direct. You can't use shorter passing style, as it's conflicting. So in effect, you have ordered your forwards to play more direct with control mentality, and at the same time ordered them to play shorter. If you want to use control mentality, you need to know what that does to settings. Control is more agressive for example, so you can increase pressing, width, defensive line, tempo. If you order your players to play more agressively with a more agressive mentality, it would be counter productive to order them less agressive instructions. With standard mentality, everything is at the middle, so you can go either way, and use both shorter or more direct passing, for example. With a change of mentality, you should make sure your other options don't go against it.

If you are bent on using a control mentality, you shouldn't order your players shorter passing. They will play wider, close down more, play a higher tempo, with a higher defensive line, and run more toward goal whilst attempting less long shots. So with a control mentality, you can order them to push higher up, play wider, play higher tempo, work ball into box, run at defence. They will also roam more and play with higher creativity, so it would be wrong to decrease this.

 

[WmS]

Sorry, I haven't read the whole thread, so I'll just comment on the OP. I see you want to do a passing game. For that, mentality should be standard. With control, you are actually asking your forwards to do more direct passess, so shortening the passess is actually conflicting. With standard, everyone is on same passing, so there is no confilct. Your tempo for a passing game should be lower or much lower. Shortening the passes decreases width, and width and tempo are linked. Next, your right winger has an attack duty which creates a gap between him and CMs who stays mostly in the middle, and gaps you want to avoid. Same goes for your central defenders. A stopper duty should go next to more agressive fullback, unless you have a DM above him. Also, you may want to avoid mentality changing TI, like exploit the flanks. It will just push your wingers even higher and create a larger gap. Look for overlap you could perhaps use, as it will actually make your sideback and your wingers closer. Crosses should depened on whether your striker is a number nine (drill) or a number ten (float), and yours is a number ten.

The more attacking mentalites don't make the forwards pass more direct, they make players with attack duties pass longer so in the OP's tactic the ST won't be affected by a change between Control and Standard because he's on a Support duty, it's the LB and the RW who will pass a little bit longer in a Control mentality as opposed to Standard. The CAM would pass longer except for the fact he's a playmaker so his passing won't be affected by the mentality change.



A slower tempo is not necessarily a good thing for a passing team. If your players aren't great with the ball, aren't highly composed, or aren't strong enough to withstand the challenges that a slow tempo game will draw from the opposition then you're going to lose the ball. Sometimes you have to speed things up a bit in order to avoid losing possession, not crazy insane fast but too slow can be a very bad thing too.


The OP tactic is Very Fluid, I would normally agree with you about the winger positioning but in the case of Very Fluid even with an Attack duty the RW is still going to be very close to the CM because VF decreases the Forwards mentalities and increases the Defender mentalities; they're all much closer together than they would be in a Standard or Rigid mentality.



Exploit The Flanks doesn't change mentality as far as I've been able to see, it just tells the team to pass to a certain area of the pitch but Look for Overlap will change it; LFO will change the wingers to a support duty and puts the fullbacks on an attack duty which changes their passing and positioning in addition to encouraging more forward runs and changing the defensive behavior which could have pretty horrendous consequences if you haven't compensated for the change in the backs roles. LFO changes the way a team plays far more than ETF will.



Other than that I agree with everything you said

 

[Igneos79]

The more attacking mentalites don't make the forwards pass more direct, they make players with attack duties pass longer so in the OP's tactic the ST won't be affected by a change between Control and Standard because he's on a Support duty, it's the LB and the RW who will pass a little bit longer in a Control mentality as opposed to Standard. The CAM would pass longer except for the fact he's a playmaker so his passing won't be affected by the mentality change.



A slower tempo is not necessarily a good thing for a passing team. If your players aren't great with the ball, aren't highly composed, or aren't strong enough to withstand the challenges that a slow tempo game will draw from the opposition then you're going to lose the ball. Sometimes you have to speed things up a bit in order to avoid losing possession, not crazy insane fast but too slow can be a very bad thing too.


The OP tactic is Very Fluid, I would normally agree with you about the winger positioning but in the case of Very Fluid even with an Attack duty the RW is still going to be very close to the CM because VF decreases the Forwards mentalities and increases the Defender mentalities; they're all much closer together than they would be in a Standard or Rigid mentality.



Exploit The Flanks doesn't change mentality as far as I've been able to see, it just tells the team to pass to a certain area of the pitch but Look for Overlap will change it; LFO will change the wingers to a support duty and puts the fullbacks on an attack duty which changes their passing and positioning in addition to encouraging more forward runs and changing the defensive behavior which could have pretty horrendous consequences if you haven't compensated for the change in the backs roles. LFO changes the way a team plays far more than ETF will.



Other than that I agree with everything you said

You can go to guidetofootballmanager.com and check out what changes are made with settings and mentality. Or you can load fm13, change setttings and see the effect on sliders.

 

[WmS]

You can go to guidetofootballmanager.com and check out what changes are made with settings and mentality. Or you can load fm13, change setttings and see the effect on sliders.

I did check my game before my post. You were wrong. I did check your link, and some others, before making this post. As far as I can tell you don't know the basics. In fact, guidetofootballmanager had some good advice about using a higher tempo to avoid being closed down when using a shorter passing game. I usually read the material before linking to it, jus' sayin'.

 

[Igneos79]

I did check my game before my post. You were wrong. I did check your link, and some others, before making this post. As far as I can tell you don't know the basics. In fact, guidetofootballmanager had some good advice about using a higher tempo to avoid being closed down when using a shorter passing game. I usually read the material before linking to it, jus' sayin'.

I'm not wrong. Perhaps you need eyeglasses? Read here http://www.guidetofootballmanager.c...ics/touchline-instructions#exploit-the-flanks and here http://www.guidetofootballmanager.c...s/team-instructions/general-strategy#strategy


Edit: I've read it again, and they removed the part where they talk about passing and strategies. I would need to download fm13 again to make sure if they made changes or not, but I'm on linux now. I'm still convinced passing changes with a change of mentality. Counter mentality for example should set defence to more direct passes, to spring those counters, and forwards should play shorter when counter is not on. that's how it used to be, unless there was some change I'm not aware of.

 

[WmS]

I'm not wrong. Perhaps you need eyeglasses? Read here Touchline Instructions | Football Manager 2013 Guide and here General Strategies | Football Manager 2013 Guide

Uh huh. It's a quarter to midnight right now so I'm not staying up to play with you tonight.
Two things:
1) I took exception to four things you posted. Which one of them was I wrong about?
2) I have my own links from your source material. I had a funny feeling you'd go this route so I saved them. It wouldn't look very good for a self-styled tactical guru to be shredded by a guide that he himself linked to.



While I'm sleeping take a few hours and decide how you want to proceed with this. There's really no need to go down this road, especially if you actually bother to read the guide you linked to and realize how much material in that guide contradicts what you posted earlier. The ball's in your court.

 

[Igneos79]

Uh huh. It's a quarter to midnight right now so I'm not staying up to play with you tonight.
Two things:
1) I took exception to four things you posted. Which one of them was I wrong about?
2) I have my own links from your source material. I had a funny feeling you'd go this route so I saved them. It wouldn't look very good for a self-styled tactical guru to be shredded by a guide that he himself linked to.



While I'm sleeping take a few hours and decide how you want to proceed with this. There's really no need to go down this road, especially if you actually bother to read the guide you linked to and realize how much material in that guide contradicts what you posted earlier. The ball's in your court.

Have a good night sleeping dude. After 6000 hours invested in only the last two games of the series, I think I know what I'm talking about. And you can keep your remarks for yourself, I'm not here to flame with anyone, especially not with someone who has yet to reveal the extent of his knowledge, given your amateur rank on this site.

That said, they keep changing the game. And I've known that site word for word by memory, as I went there a zillion times during my testings. And this isn't the first time they've changed what's written there. And they are also wrong on numerous accounts, like claiming you need to play wider for a passing through defence style. If you play through defence with shorter passing, it would be wrong to go wider.

And also, as of a few hours ago, my tactics don't work no more. I'm not sure if they made a patch recently, or what the **** is going on, but my results are now far better with balanced fluidity. I think they made a change of some sort. Which makes sense actually, since very fluid changes the default mentality, and usually doing that isn't a good thing.

You were wrong about mentality. Exploit the flanks changes the mentality and I have linked you exactly where that is stated. You were also wrong and correct about passing. You said more attacking mentalites doesn't change forwards to more direct passing, and that isn't true. You wrote their passing is longer, as that is basically what direct means. There is no "passing length" in game, just shorter or more direct passing, measured in prevous fm's by a scale of 20.

Also his players are staying further apart regardless of mentality. Mentality doesn't change the distance from one another, otherwise, with very fluid, you would have 10 players in a straight horizontal line.

The only thing I'm confused about now, is whether or not attack mentality changes everyones passing to direct. If that's true, I should edit my tactics, and remove the play out of defence and add more direct passing to my more attacking tactics.

I'm sorry if you think I was insulting you, I wasn't.

 

[Igneos79]

Well, just made more testing, and I need to change my statement. More agressive mentalities will change everyones passing to more direct, not just forwards. It will NOT change defenders to shorter.