Tactical Advice Needed

[louiscfc]

Hi lads. I dont normally ask for help in tactics as I try and do it myself but I wanna hear other's opinions to help me improve my first season at Chelsea. Not off to the best start in the league and really struggling to keep clean sheets.

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As you can see, its by no means disastrous but poor defensive displays and inconsistency is really ******** me over in the league. My attacking is going as you'd expect with the quality in the team.

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Listed above are my two main tactics. The first for home/easier games (tactic 1) and the second for better teams (tactic 2). Tactic 1 is a lot more possesion and fluidity based whereas tactic 2 is more sold, disciplined with quick counter attacking in wide areas. Have a look and give me some feedback on what can be improved.

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Here is the analysis of the two tactics in my worst two defeats in the season so far. Tactic 2 was against City, tactic 1 away at Everton. As you can see, using tactic 2 away at Everton got me caught wide open whereas the set up at City was much more solid despite being pipped 1-0. However, both were equally as disappointing. The stats of the team are also included.

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And finally is the team training to let people see if that could have had any impact on this inconsistent start to the season.

 

[MANUMAD]

Tactic 1

Youve got too many players attacking and not enough creating which does not tie well with control and possession tactics. Id start by making the cf a dlf support and maybe one of the wide players on support.

Also why fbs are on auto? Do you know the effect of that?

Tactic 2 is much more balanced but again what are you trying to achieve with fbs on auto?

 

[WJ]

Tactic 1 isn't a possession tactic. You have 3 (or possibly 4 if you include the AP/A) who will stay high up the pitch, uninvolved in helping the midfield. Having a fluid system, that splits players in 5/5 mentality-wise, will make your 4 players even more uninvolved in defence.

In attack, they don't offer any movement, so you're purely relying on the counter or quick attack while there's space at the back. No-one is dropping deep to create space for others to move in. No-one is overlapping on the wing. It's all just static - no fluidity. Using this against weaker teams is a bad idea, because your movement up front is poor. Goals you get will be a result of the players being superior, rather than the tactic.

Why did you choose the TIs you did? Very few of them are helping your cause/current tactic.

Tactic 2 is better, tbh, but still quite reliant on the counter attack and pretty much useless when the counter isn't on. You've got Costa and Hazard up against the entire defence. Good if the opponent is committing men forward; bad if they're keeping 3 or more players back. If the counter isn't on or the move breaks down, you're stuck. No overlapping on either wing and no-one making runs from midfield.

Again, you're clearing the ball to the flanks, asking them to Exploit the Wings and deliver Whipped Crosses.... for who? You've only got Costa in the box!


I suggest a re-think of how you intend to play. Decide who will be the main goal scorers and who will be the main providers. Build a tactic around that. I also think you should start with very few TIs (just do 1-3 absolutely necessary ones) and only add more if you see you need it.

 

[louiscfc]

Thanks for the replies guys. Firstly, what is bad about playing FBs on automatic? On the description of the role it says they will change based on my match strategy... which is good for me as i'm always changing strategy but what is actually so bad about it? If I'm honest, the FBs are the weakest players so far so why is the automatic role causing this?

Secondly, WJ I forgot to include some of the player instructions. In tactic 1, the AP moves into channels to create space for the likes of Costa and Fabregas to move into (especially when I change Costa to a DLF) so I do have someone creating space. I also didnt mention that the right winger often changes from attack duty to support depending on the situation so there's one less player set to attacking. Regarding the FBs player instructions, they are both set to play wide and overlap but i'm not sure if the automatic duty deems these instructions useless...

Regarding TI's i'm not sure what you think is wrong with them. You made a valid point with tactic 2's TIs but tactic 1's seems to work quite well in creating chances and dominating games at home.

I like your criticism on tactic 2 but the "no-one making runs from midfield" isn't right as I play a box-to-box midfielder and will often change the DLP to support duty which will increase amount of runs from CM. The reason I exploit the wings is because i'm trying to get Eden Hazard involved as much as possible but will certainly be changing 'clear ball to flanks' and it doesnt help my build up play. Also, Costa is set to 'hold up ball' which in my head would be the opposite to counter attacking but i'm not sure how this is implemented in game. Do they just do quick lay offs to other teammates or do they literally shield it for ages, slowing the game down?
What TI's do you think I need to use/get rid of as I feel, apart from a few tweaks here and there that these are needed if I am to play how I want them to play (e.g slower tempo, solid at back, quick on counter etc. )

Also MANUMAD, if I changed Costa to a DLF would he not just get in the AP's way when he's dropping off and linking up play. Should I change the AP role to prevent this?

 

[Average Joe]

In pretty much every tactic I use a Stopper and a Cover for the centre backs

Stopper - get the quicker player probably - to run out and try and stop threats early

Cover can be slower maybe the better header etc that will tackle who gets through.

I usually use my right and left backs on support.

I use the same formation as your first.

Costa played very well for me managing spain as a F9
the player behind in AMC I use as a shadow striker, I never see them getting in each others way.

The wings I have same setting as you.

Cm I have an advanced playmaker (ideal for Fabregas) next to a ball winning mid (ideal for Matic) with a few instructions like keeping to position, dribble less etc so he keeps the shape.

 

[WJ]

Secondly, WJ I forgot to include some of the player instructions. In tactic 1, the AP moves into channels to create space for the likes of Costa and Fabregas to move into (especially when I change Costa to a DLF) so I do have someone creating space. I also didnt mention that the right winger often changes from attack duty to support depending on the situation so there's one less player set to attacking. Regarding the FBs player instructions, they are both set to play wide and overlap but i'm not sure if the automatic duty deems these instructions useless...

The AP is behind Costa, so isn't creating space for him. It's not creating space for Fabregas either (unless he has a Gets Forward PPM?) because he's a DLP/S and will roam in midfield only.

If the right winger changes to support, it's a better system, but the right fullback isn't overlapping so that's a good opportunity wasted. How are the FBs set to overlap? On Control they'll have a Support duty, which won't see them overlapping much.

Regarding TI's i'm not sure what you think is wrong with them. You made a valid point with tactic 2's TIs but tactic 1's seems to work quite well in creating chances and dominating games at home.

Put it this way, your TIs conflict with the tactic. You claim it's a possession tactic. In that screenshot, it isn't one. You'll have (useless) possession between your back 6, but you're using the tactic against weaker teams who will sit back. Once they try to ping it forward, you'll lose the ball quickly. As I said though, the Winger on Support will help your case.

In that screenshot, you have Retain Possession and shorter passing and play out of defence ticked. Why?

You're asking your players to prioritise possession, firstly. Along with Play out of Defence, when they win the ball, they'll be very slow initially getting it forward. By the time the front 4 have it, the opposition will have plenty of men behind the ball and because your overall movement is so poor, the shot quality (if they manage to get one off) will suffer.

The double pivot is fine, but your fullbacks then need to be more attacking. Play Wider and Exploit Flanks will get the ball wide. Shurrle will stay very wide and so will Hazard. I'm not even sure how much Hazard will cut inside with Play Wider, leaving Costa quite alone. Exploit flanks will encourage getting the ball wide and crossing. Costa is okay, but Willian is hardly going to win many balls in the air. I'm not sure why you want to focus play down the flanks when you can just let them work the entire width - including the centre - when the defenders are dragged wide.

I like your criticism on tactic 2 but the "no-one making runs from midfield" isn't right as I play a box-to-box midfielder and will often change the DLP to support duty which will increase amount of runs from CM. The reason I exploit the wings is because i'm trying to get Eden Hazard involved as much as possible but will certainly be changing 'clear ball to flanks' and it doesnt help my build up play. Also, Costa is set to 'hold up ball' which in my head would be the opposite to counter attacking but i'm not sure how this is implemented in game. Do they just do quick lay offs to other teammates or do they literally shield it for ages, slowing the game down?
What TI's do you think I need to use/get rid of as I feel, apart from a few tweaks here and there that these are needed if I am to play how I want them to play (e.g slower tempo, solid at back, quick on counter etc. )

A DLP is a DEEP-laying playmaker. IF he moves forward, it'll be extremely late and only to the edge of the D. Not what I meant. Actually, I'd have him permanently as a Support Duty or the left back should be much more attacking.

The Box to Box Mid will also make runs quite late only. He won't be bursting forward, hence the Support duty. As I said earlier to Igneos, Attack duties generally make runs ahead of the ball, Support duties keep up with play to support play and Defend duties stay behind play/the ball. A CM/A is a much better choice, BUT if you're purely going to rely on the counter, don't worry about it.

If he's set to Hold Up ball, he'll wait for teammates making runs. In tactic 2, that will ONLY be Hazard as he's the only one with an attack duty. In a counter situation, you might see Schneiderlin and Shurrle making runs as well.

I like your tactic 2 much more than tactic 1. I don't know your tactic as well as you do, so can't comment too much about which TIs to keep, but I'd say keep the really necessary ones and discard the rest. Only bring more in when you see you need it.

 

[MANUMAD]

WJ is one of the most knowledgeable and erudite people on the forum. He put in words much better what I had no time (am at office!) to say myself.

I didnt say that necessarily fbs or anyone on auto is bad. Its just that most people dont understand the effect of that.

Tactic 2 will function reasonably. Tactic 1 has problems. But Ill say a few things about tactic 2:

1. Why do you have Fabregas on DLP defend? Its not necessarily wrong but Im trying to make you think about what you want.
2. Also anchorman is very static and not conducive to keeping possession.
3. Id try turning the anchorman into a dlp defend and the Fabregas position into an AP support and sometimes to a bwm support (which mean he' ll always try to dispossess the ball carrier and then create).

Also, if I were you I'd read around about tactics - best things to google:

1. FM pairs and combinations.
2. Strikerless by Guido
3. SI training centre.

 

[louiscfc]

Thanks again lads. Some really useful stuff from all of you. Regarding why i'm doing certain things is, i'm trying to replicate Mourinho's tactics, particularly tactic 2. That is why I put Fabregas to defend duty as when he parks the bus, that is what Cesc's role is. But after reading some of your suggestions, I'm gonna try and do my own thing.
Ok, here are some suggestions that i've been thinking of:

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In tactic 1, I got rid of the CAM and made Oscar a CM with AP-Attack. Schurrle changed to support winger with Matic a BWM-s and Fabregas becoming a regista. I'm not completely sold on the role but I really wanna dominate the ball at home and he seems like the best person to fit the role, once I get him trained. Ivanovic is now a wing back set to attack to give Schurrle some overlapping down the right side whilst Azpilicueta is a FB-S but if Filipe or Rodriguez play there, who are naturally left footed, I may change them to wing backs. I took Average Joe's advice with the CB pairing and it is now a similar set up to IRL.
The TIs have been restricted with only the fundamentals that I need.

Regarding tactic 2, it is largely the same except a few tweaks to player roles based on feedback. The only thing I might change is the CM becoming a support duty instead of attack?

 

[WJ]

Just quickly looking at the tactics themselves (not the TI yet) they seem much better.

Tactic 1 - Quite aggressive in the middle. You don't have a holding midfielder, which might be okay in some games, but you're wide open against the counter.

Tactic 2 - Seems okay, but I'd swap the BWM/S and CM/A. The IF and CM/A will get in each other's way. Not sure about Azpi being on a defend duty. He's going to be uninvolved in possession. Watch him and consider a Support duty so that he's an out ball for the midfield at least.