Tips on making a 3 man defence stable..

[riap]

Tips on making a 3 man defense stable..

I have a problem regarding a 3 man defense and i would like to discuss it with you.. First of all, when i say 3 man defense, i mean a cb and two fbs.. In real life when a team plays a 3 man defense like that (barcelona recently in some games with puyol and abidal), the full backs act both as center backs and full backs.. In FM i found that impossible to do.. If you place them in the cb slot, teams that play wide wingers have an advantage over you.. When you play them in the fb slot, your cb (limited defender) gets outnumbered by a two man attacking line (or even has problems with a lone striker when hes fast enough).. I thought about placing them in the cb slot with ''hug touchline'', but i dont know how could that have an effect defensively.. Any thoughts?

 

[simulacrum]

Perhaps try playing with a very defensive midfielder (extreme anchorman?) ahead of the lone centerback.

Or you could try playing a very defensive fullback on one side and a centerback with "hugs touchline" (I wonder if roaming would be worth trying?) on the other, kind of like how for Barca Abidal is usually wider than Puyol in the back three.

 

[riap]

Perhaps try playing with a very defensive midfielder (extreme anchorman?) ahead of the lone centerback.

Or you could try playing a very defensive fullback on one side and a centerback with "hugs touchline" (I wonder if roaming would be worth trying?) on the other, kind of like how for Barca Abidal is usually wider than Puyol in the back three.

I actually play with two dms ahead of the cb..
DM(Defend) and DM(Support)..

But lets say i place one fb in the cb slot..
Wouldn't that make me vulnerable to attacks coming from wingers that play on that side?
Because there wouldn't be anyone to close him down (having in mind that cbs usually close down players in front of them rather than wide players in fm)..
That's actually the problem..
If i could get them to close down the wide wingers (from the cb slot) then it's practically a center back/full back combo..
And i dont mean setting them to specific marking..
Kind of impossible to achieve in fm..
They should really add more realism to the tactic/player settings..

 

[maxy67]

If you play a sweeper behind two central defenders, it can really make a strong 3 man defence.

Note: This only works if your playing a normal or deep defensive line.

 

[simulacrum]

I actually play with two dms ahead of the cb..
DM(Defend) and DM(Support)..

But lets say i place one fb in the cb slot..
Wouldn't that make me vulnerable to attacks coming from wingers that play on that side?
Because there wouldn't be anyone to close him down (having in mind that cbs usually close down players in front of them rather than wide players in fm)..
That's actually the problem..
If i could get them to close down the wide wingers (from the cb slot) then it's practically a center back/full back combo..
And i dont mean setting them to specific marking..
Kind of impossible to achieve in fm..
They should really add more realism to the tactic/player settings..

True, what does the rest of your team look like? Generally speaking in three-man defences your widemids/wingbacks cover the flanks in the defensive phase.

Maybe try playing three CBs, and give the outer two high closing down with low mentality so that when the opposition breaks the CBs are closing down the wingers who are picking up the ball in front of them rather than beside/behind him?

I'm interested in three man defences and as we speak am trying to get it to work. Maybe turn this thread into a general back-three thread?

 

[riap]

True, what does the rest of your team look like? Generally speaking in three-man defences your widemids/wingbacks cover the flanks in the defensive phase.

Maybe try playing three CBs, and give the outer two high closing down with low mentality so that when the opposition breaks the CBs are closing down the wingers who are picking up the ball in front of them rather than beside/behind him?

I'm interested in three man defences and as we speak am trying to get it to work. Maybe turn this thread into a general back-three thread?[/COLOR]

In this case i play a 3 man defense with a cb and two fbs, so no wing backs to support defending the wings..
The team generally looks like this
---------------------------------------- Sweeper Keeper (Defend) ----------------------------------------
Full Back (Support)------------------ Limited Defender (Defend) ------------------ Full Back (Support)
--------------------- Defensive Mid(Defend) -------------- Defensive Mid(Support) ---------------------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Inside Forward (Attack) ------------- Advanced Playmaker (Attack) ---------- Inside Forward (Attack)
------------------- Complete Forward (Attack) --------------------- Poacher (Attack) -------------------

I've tried setting them on higher closing down (in the cb slot) and it didn't really work..
They'd still close down an attacking mid or a striker rather than the wingers..
Only difference, they close down higher since the closing down setting was higher.. (They act as stoppers)

 

[simulacrum]

My experiment with it was a 3-1-2-1-3 shape (dc, two fullbacks, anchorman, two centermids, am, two wingers, striker), and yeah, I tested out the three CBs and it doesn't work. It seems if you want to play with three actual CBs you need wingbacks. If you play with conservative fullbacks though, you can get crazy passes since the team will have wide options to spread the play at the back and up front, while maintaining a diamond in midfield. I got Sahin a game with 117/118 passes! Also outpossessed Barcelona home and away in the super cup (still lost 5-3 on aggregate ).

I actually found the fullbacks worked fairly well against the 4-5-1, since they were always back to take care of any wingers, the DM killed any space in front of the CB, and the lone CB covered in behind. The only problem against 4-5-1s was that the lone CB can be burned by a striker who has good dribbling and pace (i.e. Messi), since they can pick up the ball near the CB (and away from the anchorman), turn the CB, and find themselves one on one. The problems come against a 4-2-3-1, where the attacking mids simply burst into the channels either side of the CB.

Probably not a viable system on this game because the hybrid outside backs always end up too narrow or too wide, and there's no setting (afaik) that allows you to control how wide a defender plays without the ball.

 

[riap]

My experiment with it was a 3-1-2-1-3 shape (dc, two fullbacks, anchorman, two centermids, am, two wingers, striker), and yeah, I tested out the three CBs and it doesn't work. It seems if you want to play with three actual CBs you need wingbacks. If you play with conservative fullbacks though, you can get crazy passes since the team will have wide options to spread the play at the back and up front, while maintaining a diamond in midfield. I got Sahin a game with 117/118 passes! Also outpossessed Barcelona home and away in the super cup (still lost 5-3 on aggregate ).

I actually found the fullbacks worked fairly well against the 4-5-1, since they were always back to take care of any wingers, the DM killed any space in front of the CB, and the lone CB covered in behind. The only problem against 4-5-1s was that the lone CB can be burned by a striker who has good dribbling and pace (i.e. Messi), since they can pick up the ball near the CB (and away from the anchorman), turn the CB, and find themselves one on one. The problems come against a 4-2-3-1, where the attacking mids simply burst into the channels either side of the CB.

Probably not a viable system on this game because the hybrid outside backs always end up too narrow or too wide, and there's no setting (afaik) that allows you to control how wide a defender plays without the ball.

So basically like i said impossible to achieve..
I think they should alter that in the next fm..
We should be able to place our players where ever we want..
And the roles could be determined by a heat zone on the pitch map..

Anyways i think my only choise is to sacrifice a dm and play two cbs..

 

[Zuko123]

With regards to a three man defense, have a look at:
Mechanising the Play – The Three Man Defence « Football Manager Analysis which looks at using 3CB's efficiently, or consider
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...enal-1930s-renovation-tactic-3-2-2-2-1-a.html
which looks at using 1CB with 2 FBs and is a formation ive personally tried and had fairly good results with.

 

[darkelf]

may you can try this..

x = stopper
c = cover

CB(x) --------CB(c)--------CB(x)

 

[riap]

Ok guys as you can see the thread is pretty old and since then i've tried a lot of things with three man defenses..
One trick i found is particularly good..
It's kind of a bug (m.e exploit) maybe but i'll share it anyway..
Choose any formation you like, that has a cb and two fbs.. (none of them should make forward runs)
Make sure your team plays controlling and intense pressing game..
Set your defense to push up high but with no offside trap.. (you wouldn't want to be too vulnerable)
Have a REALLY GOOD sweeper keeper and set his closing down to whole field..
So what happens is this..
Your opposition sees your defense in a vulnerable situation whenever they have the ball..
And it seems that what they do is, ALWAYS play a long ball or a harsh through ball..
With harsh decisions like that the keeper (most of the time) picks up the ball or the limited defender clears it before any danger occurs..
Try it and tell me how it goes..

ps: having a dm (or two) to help with the (so called harsh) counter attacks is advised..

 

[Zagallo]

Unfortunately this Match Engine can't handle a 3 man defense. What you can do, and I did it successfully in FM2010 and FM2011, is a back 3 CBs and use 2 wing backs or 2 wide midfield players to cover the wings(they will need stamina, pace and a bit of marking and crossing though).
Have a look at my 3-4-3 Ajax style here :http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...jax-style-zico10-football-manager-2011-a.html
and see if you can develop any ideas.

 

[Wynters]

In the end I resorted to 3-1-2-2-2 (3 defenders, one anchorman (You need this if you don't want to leak goals), One AP, the other as a BWM, followed by two attacking wingers AMR, AML and two strikers Set a deep defensive line and You rarely ever concede. Well I rarely ever do at any rate.