What am I doing wrong?!

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Treaders

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Hi guys, so I'm currently doing a West Ham save and struggling, especially at home.
Im using a 4-2-3-1 wide

Keeper(D)

fb( A )---- Cd(D)------ Cd(D)----- fb(S)

Bwm(D)------ap(s)

w( a )----------ap(s)------------if(s)

Af( a )



I use a structured, counter philosophie.
higher tempo, close down more, stay on feet, more direct passing,
pass to space, run at defence.
Seem to be struggling keeping the goals out and also averaging just under a goal
Per game.

sorry I can't be more helpful, anything would be appreciated though,
 
Change your BWM(D) to a CM (D) as the BWM will go chasing the ball and leave your back 4 exposed, also the two AP will probably want to occupy the same space, change the one next to the BWM to a DLP, this might also improve your defending as he won't go too far forward.

How high is your defensive line? Definitely push higher up if you're going for a press and counter tactic

What type of goals are your conceding? Are they coming from a specific area? I imagine you'll be conceding a lot from crosses down your right flank as it's very attacking and the BWM will not cover your full back
 
My defensive line is normal, but do change it to deeper when in front, I'm conceding a lot from crosses, just feels like I'm giving players a lot of space around the area, could be to do with my lack of defensive midfielders,
 
Yeah because the BWM is not really as 'defensive' as you might think, when defending deep there will be a big gap between your centre backs and your midfield shield. An alternative could be to change your AP in the centre to the CM (D) and the keep the BWM as he can then go charging around like a deranged madman whilst having a bit of cover
 
Would you recommend that? As I normally go noble as playmaker, and then either kouyate or song as bwm,
also if I push my line higher up, would it benefit me to use the offside trap?
 
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Noble is a great choice to have as a DLP (D) - he doesn't have great shooting ability - so he will sit deep and spray passes about. If you then have Kouyate as a BWM (D) along side him he will hunt down the ball and when he wins it back quickly give it to Noble or your AP. Song would fit nicely into either slot as he can pass well and is good enough to hassle the opposition to win it back
 
Thanks, I'll try that, hopefully I can work out how to use Payet to his best and he will have enough space to do the job for me
 
I am having a hard time envisaging how you want your team to play. Not necessarily that you are not scoring enough, simply the philosophy. You have a bunch of contradictions in your instructions:



There are in my opinion some must read topics for any new FM manager if you want to create your own tactics: Don't worry about for which edition these were written, the theory still stands.

How to Play FM: A Twelve Step Guide
The Mentality Ladder: A Practical Framework for Understanding Fluidity and Duty

These two links will help you greatly and help me illustrate my point. See what is happening when you set-up with structured and counter tactic is the following

-------------------------------------COUNTER-------------------------------------
GK: Limit Pressure
Sweeper Keeper (All Duties): Cycle Possession

SW: Restrict Space Cautiously
Libero (All Duties): Recover Possession

DC: Restrict Space
Cover Duty (All Roles): Divert Attacking Movement
Stopper Duty (All Roles): Disrupt Attacks Judiciously

DL/R: Disrupt Attacks

DMC: Disrupt Attacks Quickly
Halfback: Disrupt Attacks Judiciously

WBL/R: Recover Possession After Defensive Transition

MC: Keep Possession Away From Pressure
Box to Box Midfielder: Recover Possession Immediately
Deep Lying Playmaker (All Duties): Disrupt Attacks Quickly
Defend Duty (All Other Roles): Recover Possession

ML/R: Keep Possession

AMC: Keep Possession Under Pressure
Advanced Playmaker (All Duties): Keep Possession Away From Pressure
Shadow Striker: Shuttle Ball

AML/R: Shuttle Ball Into Space
Advanced Playmaker (All Duties): Keep Possession

ST (Lone Striker): Spearhead Attacks from the Hole
Attack Duty (Multiple Strikers): Create Chances Urgently
Defensive Forward (Defend Duty - Lone Striker): Suppress Counterattacking Options
False Nine (Lone Striker): Keep Possession Under Pressure
Support Duty (Lone Striker): Create Chances Patiently
Support/Defend Duty (Multiple Strikers): Shuttle Ball
Trequartista (Lone Striker): Keep Possession Under Pressure
Trequartista (Multiple Strikers): Shuttle Ball

If you look at this I think you have your forward and wingers set-up correctly as they will attack the defense. However, your AP S in attack will get defended and he is then told to pass backwards (away from pressure). Same goes for the AP S one line back which is not what you want. You want them to pass to the front line in the counter.

The BWM will chase the ball which you want him to do but the combination between the Fullbacks and the BWM D is something you may need to look at since they are always chasing the ball and your CD's are only restricting space (but not breaking up the attack) so this set-up will mean you get pulled out of position easily which is why, when combined with your wide style, you get goals from crosses against especially when your FB's have gone forward with their relatively attacking duty.

Take a look at the write-ups in the links and play around with those philosophy/roles/descriptions and see where you can improve your tactic. Unfortunately in FM16 SI still have not updated their ingame descriptions on how things work and leave it to be a confusing mess. Those links will help you.
 
Yeah I'm confusing myself as I go, it's the first time I've tried doing this myself rather than waiting for someone to create for me, I tried to use the guide when creating the tactic yet it just seemed to confuse me some more, i went for structured due to the specialist roles that I had in my team
 
Treaders said:
Yeah I'm confusing myself as I go, it's the first time I've tried doing this myself rather than waiting for someone to create for me, I tried to use the guide when creating the tactic yet it just seemed to confuse me some more, i went for structured due to the specialist roles that I had in my team
Click to expand...

And this is correct. So you're further than many people who create their own tactics the first time :)

Take a look at changing your AMC into an actual AMC.. he keeps possession under pressure which means forward or backward if there are no opportunities or into an SS who will always shuttle the ball but this may mean unnecessary loss of possession (which can again lead to counter opportunities)

Play around with the definitions (for more detailed on the above information check: The Mentality Ladder: A Practical Framework for Understanding Fluidity and Duty ) until you get the style correct. After that it becomes managing players and morale
 
Well as I've got Payet in that position I'll play around to find the perfect role out of him, I'll keep using the guides and hopefully I can find something that works
 
Treaders said:
Well as I've got Payet in that position I'll play around to find the perfect role out of him, I'll keep using the guides and hopefully I can find something that works
Click to expand...

Counter means everyone will go forward in possession anyway so I would either keep that and maintain some more defense or go with something more standard and a higher tempo.
 
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