Yet another shot at Gegenpressing using Dortmunds own squad

Anceloti

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''He likes having the ball, playing football, passes ? it's like an orchestra, but it's a silent song, yeah? I like heavy metal.'
'
Klopp on Wenger and possession football.

Hello, long time lurker here, this is my first ever uploaded tactics here, and while the subject is by no means an original one, there seems to be quite a few of similar threads around, I think I can contribute something here, so rather than posting this in one of the threads that are active already I decided to create a new one, so I hope you all like it, and don't mind.

Introduction

There seems to be the current trend among FM players to recreate Borussia Dortmund gegenpressing playing style. You haven't truly played football manager If you haven't tried to recreate Tiki-taka, and it seems to be true for gegenpresing as well now. However I feel, while I'm sure that other tactics are good ones and more applicable to multiple teams, they tend to drift form the Dortmund's own squad, or the FM version of it at least.
I've drawn heavy inspiration form this threads:
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...orussia-dortmunds-gegenpressing-take-2-a.html
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/shar...lopps-gengen-pressing-artisan-14-3-1-a-3.html
however I've also decided to take a different route on multiple ocasions.
Also along with my memory of watching BVB play I used folowing resources:
Inside the Tactical Mind of Borussia Dortmund's Juergen Klopp | Bleacher Report
Dortmund: Breaking Down Jurgen Klopp's Tactics and the Role of Each Player | Bleacher Report
dortmund | Zonal Marking
Borussia Dortmund Football Statistics | WhoScored.com
J?rgen Klopp: Borussia Dortmund are 'worth falling in love with' | Football | The Guardian


Goals



Our basic goal here is to make a gegenpressing based around Dortmunds own squad, their virtues and quirks, to be as effective in game and as true to real life as much as it is possible on this match engine.
So, what do we want?
A quick, direct, attacking high tempo football, coupled with aggressive high pressing that disrupts our opponents and leaves them no time to breathe. We however don't want to derive into brutality, or long ball football.
We also want to base it around intelligence of Hummels and Gundogan, offensiveness of Pisczcek, industry of Kuba and Bender, genius of Goetze (or in this case that Armenian guy ^^)), deadliness of Reus and omnipotence of Lewandowski.

Team instructions, philosophy and mentality

Lets start with the team instructions.
View attachment 390600

We have direct passing with much higher tempo, and more trough balls, coupled with less long shots and quick drill crosses, no play out of defense as we want quick transitions, and ball distribution in deeper areas is handled by Gundogan and Hummels, while higher up the pitch Trequartista should be able to take control of the match.
Narrow shape, hassle opponents and hard tackling, compress the space for the opposition, force mistakes and win the ball back quickly, also be more disciplined. Exploit flanks or middle can be added depending on circumstances.
For the philosophy fluid seems the right choice, team will be more compact, and space between the lines tighter.
Primary mentality is attacking, when leading comfortably, wanting to preserve strenght or facing a dangerous opponent counter mentality will be applied.

Players, roles and duties


Are largely based on this link as well as players profiles in the game.
GK-Roman Weidenfeller a typical goalie, nothing fancy, GK-D. Though SK might be more appropriate given high line. But we use stopper/cover (sort of) and he is **** at that role, so GK it is.
RB- Lukas Pisczcek CWB-A as converted winger and the more offensive of the full backs, two players in one providing extra width.
LB- Marcel Schmelcer WB-S, a more defensive of the two, bit still going forward and overlapping with Reus.
CBR- Neven Subotić CB-Stopper, a more reactive partner to Hummels aims to intercept those nasty trough balls.
CBL- Mats Hummels BPD-D, marks the opponent's strikers into anonymity, and distributes the ball from the deep.
CMR- Ilkay Gundogan DLP-S, main ball distributor of the team as well as holding player, with some freadom to go sligltly forward and get more involved.
CML- Sven Bendeer BWM-D, ball winner, wacuum-cleaner .
AMR- Cuba Blazczykowski WG-S A tricky one to represent, a winger that is more central, disciplined and industrious, also covers for Pisczcek.
AMC- Mikhtaryian (artist formerly known as Goetze), both players stats, PPM and role description in the article scream Trequartista to me. Team instructions will handle the usual slacking off when it comes to defense asociated with this role.
AML- Marko Reus IF-A, almost a secondary striker.
STC- Robert Lewandowski CF-A, well what did you expect? Is there anything this guy cant do? Nope. He does it all, he can hold up the ball, shoot, head, play in a teammate, press, and does it great. Epithomy of modern center forward, screw all the ''false nine is the future'' ****.
There are two individual instructions, distribute to defense of GK to avoid losing possession and helps build form the back, and stick to position of Kuba.
So there we go, we have a set of roles that suit our players and should interplay well with each other, while giving a fair representation of the squad and working within the team style. A trio of Reus, Lewa and Mikhtaryan should be particulary dangerous, almost playing as trio of strikers, there should be overlapping on both flanks, with Kuba pitching in more centrally to help out Bender and Gundogan.


Conclusion

There are three versions of the tactic Home and Away are basically the same thing, only one with counter and other with attacking mentality, you should switch between the two mentalities in match depending on result and the opponent. Third one is the arguably most attacking one, though you can use it as default approach if you like, it adds look for owerlap team instruktions which will se full backs bombing forward also an attack duty for right winger and support one for the striker, it should give ample options in the final third, particulary against teams sitting deep.

Still testing it, resilts and match reports in post #7.
 
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Playing currently, so far only three competitive games, won 2-0 against Bayern in super cup, absolutely pinned them back, 1-0 in German Cup and 4-1 home against Mainz in the league. Not fully fluid yet but so far so good, I want to go trough few more games before posting results.
 
I try this tactic with as bari in serie b (italian second division) and i had a great result!... i m finishing to test this tactic for others matches.
One thing: when i left the OI to assistant the team was more solid in defense!
Great Job!
 
I'll try this out with Charlton when I get back from work. Love Dortmund's play.

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OK done some more testing now, tactics are fluid and after watching all the matches in comprehensive mod strengths and weaknesses are becoming apparent.
View attachment 390624
Some shaky results here, mostly due to poor finishing from my strikers (its partly my fault for leaving team talks to assistant and thus not motivating the team properly few times), and also high line which allowed every ****** winger in Bundesliga with ample pace and no brain do murder me on break (Eljero Elia I hate you so much!).
So I have drawn the conclusion and made few adjustments:
-High line with attacking mentality is a pointless overkill that backfires on regular basis. The formation pushes higher than most by default and attacking mentality adds to it, so pushing further than that is suicide. I've dropped it against Nurmberg and Bayern and it was much better, with counter mentality however it works fine.
- Defend duty for Kuba is another overkill, it left me somewhat lacking in final third not producing large number of shots i desire. Changed it to Winger support with stick to position.
-Counter mentality saves energy just fine, there is no need for breather tactic, therefore I've created a third approach to be most attacking one utilizing attacking winger and overlapping full backs. Best used as ''score a goal approach''.
-Slight tempo increase. Team still manages a good deal of passing which is a good thing, but it is still often a symphony rather than heavy metal.
I applied all this against Bayern at home ground and result was pleasing indeed:
View attachment 390612 View attachment 390611
Got the great shots to possession ratio, and while pace of Pizzaro admittedly was not likely to be a problem both Ribery and Goetze had largely a quiet game. Also plenty demonstrations of ''fighting football'', while Bayern managed to outrun us with impressive 128 km we committed less fouls which is good considering hard tackles.
Furthermore winning goal by Milos Jojić can be interpreted as gegenpressing, as Neuer took the goal kick which was headed toward the striker by Gundogan, Dante intercepted the ball but Lewa stole it quickly from him and played it toward the Treq who beats the keeper one on one. :D

Updated the first post accordingly!
 
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Do you use the normal tactic at home and counter away? Or do you base it on odds?

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Do you use the normal tactic at home and counter away? Or do you base it on odds?

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Well if you want to play Klopp all the way use attacking always, and switch to counter when leading, however a more sane person would base it more on odds yes. :D
 
Well if you want to play Klopp all the way use attacking always, and switch to counter when leading, however a more sane person would base it more on odds yes. :D

Okay thanks!

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does this still work?

It's a decent tactic, although doesn't quite cut it. Dortmund played 4231 deep formation with two banks above two banks in defence, with going route one and overload in the begining, but later they switched to a less offensive style, attack mentality with high tempo and direct passing. Their players were covering to much space and ran to many miles and got worn, so he lowered the pressure, and played more like bayern, who originally took the idea from dortmund. Bayern had results, while dortmund was somewhat incosistent, although made a few great victories. I think this tactic is good, but isn't perfect. You can check my striker scores thread and download John Legend All Of Me tactic, it should be very close to Dortmund, if not perfectly it.
 
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