17.2 and 17.2.1 match engine difference?

[WJ]

We can continue this for ages mate 1 thing was mentioned in the changelog, but the results have changed seriously.

No, we won't. I'm stopping now. You're delusional if you think SI is going to lie about changes. There are plenty of people involved and they're not going to be that stupid. There were no changes. Stick your fingers in your ears, I don't care.

You refuse to believe facts, that's your problem. Last time, some reported inconsistent results "suddenly" (which was explainable) and others reported no changes to their results. You choose to believe the half that suits what you want to hear, rather than looking at facts and using logic. There's no reasoning with someone that obtuse.

 

[zyndar]

No, we won't. I'm stopping now. You're delusional if you think SI is going to lie about changes. There are plenty of people involved and they're not going to be that stupid. There were no changes. Stick your fingers in your ears, I don't care.

You refuse to believe facts, that's your problem. Last time, some reported inconsistent results "suddenly" (which was explainable) and others reported no changes to their results. You choose to believe the half that suits what you want to hear, rather than looking at facts and using logic. There's no reasoning with someone that obtuse.

I will re upload that old Joker version for others to test. It should be working outstandingly and I hope there will be some replies. I hope you are right and I am thinking in the bad way.

 

[senac]

anyone have screenshot of game status before latest update?

 

[r1niceboy]

you signed alot of players/staff in the summer right?

your using a silly high pressing system with a high line thats probably at the high end of creativity right?

what you are experiencing is a common problem for people who download a popular tactic that shows good results for 1 season and dont understand how it works to tweak it for the second season where the AI sets up differently for you

The guys have asked to see your system so they can help you and you are still complaining

Nope. Structured/deep. It happened in the final quarter of the season too with almost no january signings. It's not the losses, as things got better after I changed my tactics away from, what in 17.2.0, had me in 3rd. I had no major injury issues, but the weird goals and OGs are still prevalent after the tactic retool. I'm playing as Ipswich in the Championship, btw, so it's not amateur mistakes. My possession was still in the high 50s low 60s percent. CCCs converted dropped by 20 percent.

The familiarity dropping is an issue not explainable either.

 

[Godfish93]

Ipswich in the Championship, btw, so it's not amateur mistakes.

As a Lincoln fan, I absolutely beg to differ.

 

[Mike.]

There have been absolutely no changes to the ME.

SI don't do "stealth ME changes"

 

[Hellicoum]

I find those myths about "stealth ME changes" are just ridiculous ^^)

 

[vanTiggelen]

No, we won't. I'm stopping now. You're delusional if you think SI is going to lie about changes. There are plenty of people involved and they're not going to be that stupid. There were no changes. Stick your fingers in your ears, I don't care.

They did during FM LIve once. However in reverse, announcing an ME update had commenced, when actually, naught has transpired. This was supposedly done on purpose to test what would happen. And exactly the same that would happen on every update announced, happened.

This thread makes a strong case why learning how to play the game can be pretty handy. The core logics rewarded have never once changed in like more than half a decade, perhaps longer. However, as downloads aim to game the engine or the AI's lack of tactical decision making (such as it never spotting when it's getting overloaded in a certain area, and only fielding players there by chance//edited preferred formation), that's the fallout. Every patch can fix those holes, every iteration may improve AI some.

What is alarming to me that, as demonstrated here, even quite a few creators aren't aware what makes them get results, apparently even in more basic terms, like: where do the assists and goals come from, and why did a possibly fix to a marking/positioning bug now stop this from happening as frequently? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem There's also a strong connection between "plug&play" downloads and bad myth spreading, in fact, you see some of it spread right by the creators: AI would crack your tactics, currently one of the more important guys gives totally wrong advice for team talks, including always given praise when winning at full time, and never giving praise at half time (which is totally contextionally). However, as his tactics/positioning games the ME, neither player quality (and transfer markets/development) nor any other stuff won't matter much anyhow, drawing the majority of modules redundant. Only with such tactics the game truly is 100% about tactics, so much that you can load it up and hit continue and be successful with the most average of sides, and whilst that is a viable play-style (though a bit boring in my book), the aforementioned connection clearly exists.

 

[zyndar]

They did during FM LIve once. However in reverse, announcing an ME update had commenced, when actually, naught has transpired. This was supposedly done on purpose to test what would happen. And exactly the same that would happen on every update announced, happened.

This thread makes a strong case why learning how to play the game can be pretty handy. The core logics rewarded have never once changed in like more than half a decade, perhaps longer. However, as downloads aim to game the engine or the AI's lack of tactical decision making (such as it never spotting when it's getting overloaded in a certain area, and only fielding players there by chance//edited preferred formation), that's the fallout. Every patch can fix those holes, every iteration may improve AI some.

What is alarming to me that, as demonstrated here, even quite a few creators aren't aware what makes them get results, apparently even in more basic terms, like: where do the assists and goals come from, and why did a possibly fix to a marking/positioning bug now stop this from happening as frequently? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinite_monkey_theorem There's also a strong connection between "plug&play" downloads and bad myth spreading, in fact, you see some of it spread right by the creators: AI would crack your tactics, currently one of the more important guys gives totally wrong advice for team talks, including always given praise when winning at full time, and never giving praise at half time (which is totally contextionally). However, as his tactics/positioning games the ME, neither player quality (and transfer markets/development) nor any other stuff won't matter much anyhow, drawing the majority of modules redundant. Only with such tactics the game truly is 100% about tactics, so much that you can load it up and hit continue and be successful with the most average of sides, and whilst that is a viable play-style (though a bit boring in my book), the aforementioned connection clearly exists.

It would be great if team talks would work like they should in case of half time talks for example. If you give them praise when leading, the probability of giving away 1 or 2 goals lead increases, sadly.
Anyway, I would be interested why these advices are "totally" wrong and what should be the right way to follow. About tactic creation: please create a "logical" or "more realistic" tactic, which is actually working, without gaming the ME. Tried it many times and failed, but it's possibly due to my limits.

 

[WJ]

Team talks work just fine and has been for years. It's one of the easiest modules of the game, tbh. A blanket statement like If "you give them praise when leading, the probability of giving away 1 or 2 goals lead increases, sadly. " is a strange one to make. No context at all. I've never had an issue with praising players when they deserve it and not doing it when they're already almost over-confident.

 

[zyndar]

Team talks work just fine and has been for years. It's one of the easiest modules of the game, tbh. A blanket statement like If "you give them praise when leading, the probability of giving away 1 or 2 goals lead increases, sadly. " is a strange one to make. No context at all. I've never had an issue with praising players when they deserve it and not doing it when they're already almost over-confident.

It's based on experience, nothing else.

 

[WJ]

It's based on experience, nothing else.

And logic should tell you it's unbelievably silly to think that the team talk will always result in goals against you.

A) team talks are not that powerful and

B) there's a lot of context about who the teams are, the players' confidence levels, scoreline etc missing and any tactical changes made, including what the user's tactic is, missing.

 

[zyndar]

And logic should tell you it's unbelievably silly to think that the team talk will always result in goals against you.

A) team talks are not that powerful and

B) there's a lot of context about who the teams are, the players' confidence levels, scoreline etc missing and any tactical changes made, including what the user's tactic is, missing.

I've never said it will always result in goals against me, it only increases the chance due to players' complacency. We have different opinion/experience, but this makes the game more enjoyable.

 

[dginola]

There have been absolutely no changes to the ME.

SI don't do "stealth ME changes"

Yes but there could be unintended changes of parameters that affect the ME where nobody knows until some players found. Programmers are human beings too and all human make mistakes.

 

[WJ]

I've never said it will always result in goals against me, it only increases the chance due to players' complacency. We have different opinion/experience, but this makes the game more enjoyable.

But you keep missing the vital point. CONTEXT.

It doesn't increase complacency in all cases. There are (DEPENDING ON CONTEXT) plenty of apt times to praise, when more confidence would be a good thing, motivationally speaking.

 

[WJ]

Yes but there could be unintended changes of parameters that affect the ME where nobody knows until some players found. Programmers are human beings too and all human make mistakes.

No. SI would know. If they didn't change that ME build, it'll be exactly the same. That's why there are build numbers and why these conspiracy theories are BS.

 

[vanTiggelen]

I've never said it will always result in goals against me, it only increases the chance due to players' complacency. We have different opinion/experience, but this makes the game more enjoyable.

Under certain circumstance, which still is no guarantee to ship goals. Talking about team talks, praising a team after a win no matter what does that too if you worry about it, you even get feedback from your assistant on that. A draw can be a fantastic result worth of praise, however if you're Bayern Munich and have just won at home against Darmstadt (barely so), praise may spring a different reaction, such as an entire squad being puzzled and losing focus. This is happening if you do praise no matter what.

As for comebacks, can you tell if an AI manager has switched to more attacking and is pushing additionally men forward? A comeback is rarely to ever a case of a simple team talk causing uproars. For a start, your main tactics is incredibly attacking and exposing on each attack, any simple formational switch can expose it, in particular multiple forwards. It's inherent to that play style that you would come to such conclusions. I make a case thus of not having a "dig" at it, it's just a preference , however such will always happen, including the "update destroys my tactics" experience/angst and the myths. There is also clearly a strong connection between players downloading tactics and experiencing an increase of randomness and frustration, but that's got to be expected as they haven't put it up themselves (no idea why SI at all support the Steam Workshops). I've played the game exactly the same at the core since forever. SI have never done a great job documenting it, but there's been several community guides that have universally worked, they're published on the official forums in the tactics section. The reason they have universally worked is they adhere to the inherent logics in any ME version, which is tried to be based on basic football logics. However they don't draw so many modules of the game "redundant", starting right with the player database and player quality by throwing stuff at the ME/AI it can't fully defend regardless of those player's qualities.