4-1-4-1 Tactic

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darren_daz

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Been playing FM 2009 a while as Spurs and this is the first time i've tried this tactic over the course of a season. I'm currently playing in April 2009 and I wanted to let people know of it's effectiveness especially against teams boasting an organised midfield or those who often break fast and down the wings.

I'm having the best season i've ever managed to within the first year and am currently competing for the title. The odds are I have a solid chance of gaining it too as I don't have any of the top 5 to play with 7 games to go and the rest have tough run ins.

I should note that it hasn't entirely been effective against weak opposition, it should perhaps be changed to to a conventional 4-4-2 or 4-4-1-1 in order to create more opportunities but the results speak for themselves.

Normally I get turned over by the standard top 4 when using a 4-4-2

Manchester United = 1 win, 1 loss
Chelsea = 1 win, 1 loss
Liverpool = 1 win, 1 draw
Arsenal = 1 win, 1 draw

Obviously the personnel are important and I managed to get good people in but give it a go next time you're chances of a win are low and see how it turns out :)

thlineup.jpg

leaguetablek.jpg


Link to tactics file
 
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Upload it on this thread bud and ill have a butchers.
 
Updated the first post, link is down the bottom.

I've upped on mediafire, i'm fairly new to the forums and am not sure about the rules with posting links. (It okay to upload and link out the site?)

Keep in mind the tactic will only be useful with the right personnel. It might not work as effectively if different players are used :p

If you had Ibrahimovic upfront with this it'd be devastating I reckon.

For next season if he'll come to my club i'll stick Aguero behind Vagner Love against the smaller clubs, revert back to the defensive minded option of a DM for the tough teams. Benzema might be a better choice for the lone striker role too.
 
The 4141 is a highly underestimated formation when using top teams as people tend to go for a formation that looks more attacking. I have just made a set of 7 versions and its probably the best set I have ever made, the attacking version and especially the Control version, using a high mentality, lots of width and a slow tempo, is lethal.
 
TheBetterHalf said:
The 4141 is a highly underestimated formation when using top teams as people tend to go for a formation that looks more attacking. I have just made a set of 7 versions and its probably the best set I have ever made, the attacking version and especially the Control version, using a high mentality, lots of width and a slow tempo, is lethal.
Click to expand...

Interesting post :), I am quite surprised by how effective this has been for me. The only real difficulty has been finding the right striker to pull it off. Vagner Love is doing a reasonable job but he does struggle against organised defences. I'd like to find a striker with more height and with good ability on the ball. I need a target man who can finish essentially to bring the midfield more into play.

You mentioned tempo, it's something i'm a little unclear on myself.

I've thought a fast tempo playing it short and along the floor would be a better option than that of a slow one?

My reasoning for this is it gives players with a high technique the advantage over those lesser able as they'd be able to play quickly, one touch passing etc. Moving the ball quickly from the back to the front. It would also give the opposition less time to get organised. With a formation such as this when you're going up against two lines of 4 they're going to be difficult to break down when you still need to break through them.

Another issue my team has, height. Wingers are effective but they need to cut in and to carry the ball, crossing normally results in a loss of possession unless it's along the floor and to feet.

Can you explain the benefit of a slower system to me? The only one I see is greater opportunity of the team moving as a unit, as you can see my team relies heavily on the midfield pitching in with goals. Perhaps this will help in this respect but isn't that offset by allowing the opposing team more time to get organised?
 
I prefer the slower Tempo i must say,and it does work well along with short passing.It works on two fronts,it frustrates the opposition as your team will take the sting out of the game and also it allows your players to be more relaxed in possession and look for better opportunities when looking for killer through balls.
 
JP Woody said:
I prefer the slower Tempo i must say,and it does work well along with short passing.It works on two fronts,it frustrates the opposition as your team will take the sting out of the game and also it allows your players to be more relaxed in possession and look for better opportunities when looking for killer through balls.
Click to expand...

With players like Moutinho, Veloso & Hamsik it should be like a hot knife through butter in that respect.

I'll try it for a few of the easier matches and see the effect it has.
 
JP Woody said:
Have a go at my original Clough V1 tactics and see if it can give you some idea's they are all about slow patient short passing.

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/downloads.php?do=file&id=693
Click to expand...

Thanks :)

Have downloaded and taken a look, this will be one for me to implement next season when I get a second quality striker. I've noticed you restrict the width of the team. is this a sensible idea considering I have some quality wide men? I don't want to take them out of the game.

I do see why you've perhaps gone that route, will be more rigid defensively.
 
Also if your going to play short passing you want your player relatively close together,its no good playing wide as it increases the space between your players and they will become harder to find with short passes.its a theory shared by Arsene Wenger in the way he sets his Arsenal team up.
 
JP Woody said:
Also if your going to play short passing you want your player relatively close together,its no good playing wide as it increases the space between your players and they will become harder to find with short passes.its a theory shared by Arsene Wenger in the way he sets his Arsenal team up.
Click to expand...

True, although it's not such an issue at my home ground though where the space in the middle is quite congested as it is.

Arsenal play a high tempo game too. Is it for better or for worse? :S
 
darren_daz said:
True, although it's not such an issue at my home ground though where the space in the middle is quite congested as it is.

Arsenal play a high tempo game too. Is it for better or for worse? :S
Click to expand...
What makes you think Arsenal play high tempo? I dont think they do when i watch them.Try the tactics and watch your team play and the goals you score,i think you will be pleasantly suprised,give it a few games though.
 
JP Woody said:
What makes you think Arsenal play high tempo? I dont think they do when i watch them.Try the tactics and watch your team play and the goals you score,i think you will be pleasantly suprised,give it a few games though.
Click to expand...

The scout reports I get from FM 2009 tell me they play high tempo, when I hear commentary in real life I hear about the quick one touch passing they do. When I see them in forward positions on TV I see their goals normally result from quick movement.

I've always thought they've played that way :S
 
darren_daz said:
Interesting post :), I am quite surprised by how effective this has been for me. The only real difficulty has been finding the right striker to pull it off. Vagner Love is doing a reasonable job but he does struggle against organised defences. I'd like to find a striker with more height and with good ability on the ball. I need a target man who can finish essentially to bring the midfield more into play.

You mentioned tempo, it's something i'm a little unclear on myself.

I've thought a fast tempo playing it short and along the floor would be a better option than that of a slow one?

My reasoning for this is it gives players with a high technique the advantage over those lesser able as they'd be able to play quickly, one touch passing etc. Moving the ball quickly from the back to the front. It would also give the opposition less time to get organised. With a formation such as this when you're going up against two lines of 4 they're going to be difficult to break down when you still need to break through them.

Another issue my team has, height. Wingers are effective but they need to cut in and to carry the ball, crossing normally results in a loss of possession unless it's along the floor and to feet.

Can you explain the benefit of a slower system to me? The only one I see is greater opportunity of the team moving as a unit, as you can see my team relies heavily on the midfield pitching in with goals. Perhaps this will help in this respect but isn't that offset by allowing the opposing team more time to get organised?
Click to expand...


I was referring to my slowest breakdown tactic. When using a tactic with a higher tempo, its to exploit the fact that the opposition leaves gaps to exploit and for our players to move into. Sometimes in a counter version against teams playing with advancing fullbacks or, sometimes, with a very attacking tactic against teams sitting too deep and being too passive in terms of aggression.

When using a 4141 with quick tempo, its important that the single FC and the wingers does not consider them selves to be at the end of the attack when first receiving the ball. How many times how one not seen the FC get the ball between the Midfield and D_line, only to advance a few yards and take a long shot. If giving him a lower than average mentality - compared to the teams mentality that is - its important to instruct him to act like a deep coming target man or playmaker. Restrict his t-balls and give him mixed/direct in passing and you will see that he will take a new position further up the field. This can also be implemented into the wide players.
 
Thank you for the advice TheBetterHalf, I was looking for a thorough explanation on the tempo and now i've got it :). I'll be starting next season with a slower tempo and see where it leads, I have noticed an increase in possession when adopting it, and as they say possession is nine tenths of the law.

As for the season I ended up finishing 4th which i'm a bit disappointed about, a few draws let the title slip away.

I am properly set up for next season now though.

I've sold the following and now have a transfer budget of 104 million.

Giovani = 11 million
Gomes = 13 million
Modric = 40 million
Keane = 15.5 million
Chimbonda = 2.6 million
Bentley = 14.5 million
Pavlyuchenko = 6.75

I'll likely bring in Asenjo as a back up for Akinfeev and buy Obertan for cover on both wings. Then all i'll need is to bring in some cover for left back and a new target man.

The only issue right now is I have a lot of money but no real targets who can take me up a notch, realistically I could afford a world class player, Ronaldo for instance i'd buy right now. Aguero is just out of my reach but I am hoping his stance towards my club will soften come August.
 
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Just using this tactic against Sunderland, I'm managing Tottenham to and we seem to be dominating the game so far but it's just started, I put the temo down to normal. I'll tell you what the result is and how good they played.
- EDIT -
Won 1-0, Took us some time to score [86 Minutes to exact] and it was King who scored, fine tactic though.
 
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owen7 said:
Just using this tactic against Sunderland, I'm managing Tottenham to and we seem to be dominating the game so far but it's just started, I put the temo down to normal. I'll tell you what the result is and how good they played.
- EDIT -
Won 1-0, Took us some time to score [86 Minutes to exact] and it was King who scored, fine tactic though.
Click to expand...

Glad to be of help, i've always gone for more attacking set ups but I find with the right midfield this is an even better tactic, very solid overall :)

Just started a game against Stoke and could clearly see the lower tempo working wonders, players took long shots that tested the keeper instead of going wide, the passing in the final third was much better.

I thought i'd link you all to a wonderful goal using just the tempo i'm talking about :)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O7KkZn4rk&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O7KkZn4rk&feature=related[/ame]
 
It was a wonderfull goal no doubt about it,i was drooling when i was watching it live on TV
 
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