4-2-3-1 Problems I'm finding trying to create one

[aslaram]

Can't find balance with this formation.

Use wingers and cross % is shocking, TM becomes isolated. Use inside forwards and poacher scores but AM becomes redundant as he is by-passed. Use AM in formation and CM's ratings plummet. Take out DM for this formation and gaps are exploited by AI team. CM ratings and AM ratings are poor in general. Play through middle and wingers ratings plummet due to being by-passed, CM and AM ratings don't improve, goals dry up all round.
Use TM instead of poacher and CM/AM play is so poor that goals dry up again as striker is no longer scoring and CM/AM ratings remain poor along with support, assist and goal play.

FM10 Wingers were ineffective on release, had to be fixed. DM's were ridiculously good. All about the diamond.
FM11 wingers were far too good. Corner cheat was really annoying, 50+ goals CB's! All about 4-2-4.
FM12 CM/AM ratings, assists and goals suck. All about 4-3-3 inside forwards and 4-2-4 again.

I've had good success with Spurs, 5 season played, 5 premier league titles, 4 league cups, 3 F.A. cups, 1 chamipions league trophy, 1 europa trophy & 1 world club cup. So I should be happy. Problem is I'm so fed up with feeling tactically restricted due to poor CM/AM contribution and ratings. It's far too reliant on inside forwards (wingers don't really work) and poachers. I really want to make a 4-2-3-1 work, but if you improve the wings then AM go's down the pan. Playing through middle results in wingers ratings dropping massively and striker stops scoring. Play with AM and CM contribution becomes zero and ratings go even lower.

I'm really fed up with having to retrain players like Pastore to play on the wings just to boost his ratings. He's an AM, it's not unfair to expect a high rating from him there. If I wanted just 2 assists and goals a season from AM I would have stuck with someone rubbish instead of paying £30m for the same results. Especially when I already have Oscar, Willian and Bale for the AML/R positions. Its annoying because I just don't get to play AM's as much as they should be and all because the wings are congested with re-trained players just to get them to play well.

If anyone has had good balanced success with this formation then I'd love to know.
P.S. by success I don't mean 60+ goals from striker and 20+ goals from CB, I mean realistic results. I don't want all my assists to come from wings, goals between corner scoring CB and forward. This games really beginning to feel 1 dimensional and I'm getting bored of it!

FM07 & FM08 were brilliant. Can they not make it work like it used to? It's not too much to aske for a CM to get 10+ goals and assists, wingers maybe 7 goals each and striker 30 over a season instead of all through striker/wingers, is it?

 

[Dicko1878]

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2012-tactics-training/92910-crossing-problems.html

Thats my thread on the crossing problems, It has some great tips on effective crossing. Also I wouldnt worry about the CM issue, in my tactic 4-2-2-2 my box to box mid doesnt get many high ratings but he is just there to help with defending and his pass completion ratio is always in the high 90's and this is crucial in getting the ball to your more attack minded players to start move e.g. Pass to your wingers etc.

 

[aslaram]

It's not right though Dicko. The whole point of being a manager (in real life that is) is to get the team playing how you want. I don't think this FM has got the MC or AMC right. There's always a problem with one area on the game and this year it's in the middle.
There's no way a manager wouldn't be able to get more than 2 goals and assists out of Pastore from the middle, yet stick him on the wing as inside forward, which is the equivalent of sticking John Terry at right back, and his ratings, assists and goals go up. It's just not right. He's not a winger/inside forward, so why should I have to play him there? In real life, if Schweinsteigers match ratings weren't very good would his manager stick him on the wing? And, if he did, d'you honestly think he'd perform much better than in the middle like they do in FM? It's obvious something is really wrong and it's restricting the tacticas you can use.

 

[Yago69]

Play wingers as IF, striker as poacher, AM as advanced playmaker, and give at least one of your 2 central midfielders a defensive duty. (bwm defend...). The other one can be a deep lying playmaker, box to box, or central midfielder with defend or support duty.

Or use Wingers (attack), a poacher, attacking midfielder (attack), an attacking playmaker (support) on central midfield + some bwm or central midfielder with defend duties. Make the advanced playmaker bwm if you want more defensive security. (the other CM should be central midfield with defend or support then).

Well, this (the second) worked with my Lille save on the demo, don't know if it really works... Wingers were crossing the ball for the poacher to put it in, attacking mid was creating lots of opportunities for himself and the poacher, and the 2 wentral midfielders were picking up balls the opponent cleared, and gave them back to the wingers or Hazard (my attacking mid). If I played with the advanced playmaker (Pedretti), he'd create a few chances per game.

 

[MAGiCK FOOTBALL]

Mentality: 13
Creative Freedom: 17
Passing: 3
Closing Down: 6
Tackling: Easy

Forwards runs: Mixed
Run With Ball: Mixed
Long Shots: Rarely/Mixed
Through Balls: Often
Cross Ball: Rarely

Zonal Marking/Tight = No
Roam From Position
Wide Play = Move into Channels

I don't use the Tactic Creator as I stick to the Classic way.

I also prefer my tactics to be more fluid as opposed to rigid. I explain how I build my tactics here:
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...92571-total-football-tic-tac-magick-fm12.html

 

[aslaram]

That's a good point Yago69. When the demo came out I played a 4-2-4 formation as Spurs and they ripped it up. I played 15 games, 14 wins and 1 draw with their starting squad. This was with the very first tactical attempt as well. Then the real game came out and the tactic was rubbish, the wingers went down hill and the CM players were awful.

Have just taken over a poor Liverpool (saved it there so I can carry on with the Spurs game) and will try out your suggestion with them. Cheers.

Magick football - Agreed, classic gives far more control.

Like I say, had loads of success with my 4-3-3 tactic but am really bored with it.