4231 control

andym1690

Member
Nov 17, 2010
58
0
0
Was wondering how people would set up a 4231 wide control and what instructions they would use want to compare it to mine and if anybody would change anything I have set up please feedback would be great on my tactic and how you would set up yours.
Gk (s) sweeper keeper
wb (a) in the full back position
Bpd (d)
bpd (d)
wb (a) in the full back position
bbm (s) mcl
dlp (d) mcr
isf (a) aml
w (a) amr
ap (s) amc
lone striker complete forward attack

fluid and control
slight high defensive line press more offside trap prevent short Gk distribution tight marking
play out defense short passing retain possession be more expressive look for overlap and work ball into box.

I know that seems a lot of instructions but hasn't worked to bad just wondering if anybody would change any of these institutions to make my tactic better and improve on it or what I should take off or change any of my player instructions and help and advice would be great. What why would yous set this up.

Sorry I have no screenshots as I'm using my phone. Thanks
 

rocheyb

Member
Jul 8, 2013
3,274
107
63
Was wondering how people would set up a 4231 wide control and what instructions they would use want to compare it to mine and if anybody would change anything I have set up please feedback would be great on my tactic and how you would set up yours.
Gk (s) sweeper keeper
wb (a) in the full back position
Bpd (d)
bpd (d)
wb (a) in the full back position
bbm (s) mcl
dlp (d) mcr
isf (a) aml
w (a) amr
ap (s) amc
lone striker complete forward attack

fluid and control
slight high defensive line press more offside trap prevent short Gk distribution tight marking
play out defense short passing retain possession be more expressive look for overlap and work ball into box.

I know that seems a lot of instructions but hasn't worked to bad just wondering if anybody would change any of these institutions to make my tactic better and improve on it or what I should take off or change any of my player instructions and help and advice would be great. What why would yous set this up.

Sorry I have no screenshots as I'm using my phone. Thanks
The bit that confuses me the most about your post is "...hasn't worked too bad" because looking at your position, role and duty assignments I would expect you to get b*gg*r*d backwards on the counter attack by every single team that you come up against. I get that you're pressing the opposition in their own half like Pochettino or Klopp would do, but with all four of your wide men on attack mode, no obvious defensive/ball-winning role in midfield and a Box-to-Box man potentially vacating that space altogether, plus the absence of a Stopper to step out of the defensive line and engage the opponent, I would expect any half-decent 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 to defeat you easily enough.

Your attacking set-up is a bit gung-ho! I guess it depends how much of the ball the AP is seeing, but don't you find that your other three attackers are constantly running offside or receiving the ball when they are tightly marked and can't do anything with it? If you were to put the winger on support mode, he would join the attack a little bit later and make runs from slightly deeper. This will mean that the IF and CF will have more chance to be in goalscoring positions ahead of him, while the attacking WB can overlap on the outside to offer another angle to develop the attack. Instruct the winger to Cross From Deep and Aim Cross at Far Post; your IF is on attack mode so he should be well-positioned to get on the end of those. Your overlapping WB can Cross From Byline and Aim for Target Man to give your CF some goalmouth action. Remember to retain the Look For Overlap instruction at the Team Level.

On the left hand side, your WB is going to struggle to perform the attack duty with the IF infront of him also looking to attack; the IF will be forging on ahead while the WB is still wheezing his way across the half-way line. Put your left sided WB on support duty. He will provide width for second wave attacks - that's when the initial surge forward has been halted by a clearance or a tackle but you still have possession in the middle third and your player is looking to play it out wide to maintain attacking momentum. Have the WB Cross From Deep and Aim for Target Man or Aim for Centre. Crossing instructions for the IF are pre-set, but as another FM-er who asked for advice on how to get the most out of Payet (IF) and Antonio (W) in his West Ham save discovered in this thread recently (and posted an in-match screenshot to prove it), when the IF_Attack gets into crossing positions the "Support" function requires the W to make himself available to convert the chance - if the striker isn't already doing so.

I'd replace one of your BPDs with a Stopper (Central or Limited Defender). Think of the great central defensive partnerships over the years - Baresi/Maldini for Milan, Lawrenson/Hansen for Liverpool, Bruce/Pallister for Manchester United, followed by Vidic/Ferdinand - a tough tackling, no nonsense defender who will go looking for trouble alongside a more cultured ball player who could turn defence into attack with a single pass, or bring the ball out into midfield.

I do like a DLP but B-2-B's worry me; they have a tendency to be too far forward when the opposition counters. I prefer a Ball-Winning Midfielder_Defend alongside a Deep-Lying Playmaker_Support. If both players have the PPM of Likes to Switch Ball to Opposite Flank Often and can be trusted with More Direct Passing then so much the better because your team will be that much more equipped to quickly exploit the attacking space when it appears, especially on the counter or for second wave attacks.

Complete Forward_Attack works for me, as long as the player is well-suited to that role. A Target Man_Support with a tall, strong-in-the-air type has served me well in my one-man upfront formations. I usually go for whipped crosses but a good Target Man will get his share of headed goals, too.

I've always struggled to get much out of No.10s, but in my epic journeyman save where I have just joined a relegation threatened Bordeaux, I am getting some joy out of an Attacking Midfielder_Support in the No.10 role, playing short passes through the defence for my Advanced Forward_Attack - I've inherited four AFs but I'd gladly trade them all in for a CF and a TM when I get the chance.
 

andym1690

Member
Nov 17, 2010
58
0
0
thanks for the feedback mate and helping me to try understand. yes i do get hit on the counter alot that is a big problem and where i do seem to lose alot of goals i was trying to press high up as you have said and sort of try to counter that with the offside trap and trying to stick close to the opposition and yes i am offside quite abit , i have that ap role as i was trying to get someone to come in the box from a deeper position but i will try what you have said with the roles, it does seem to get abit crowed in the middle that was my thinking with the winger on attack to stretch and stick to the touchline i would like to see my cf get abit more action in front of goal. as for my bbm i actually had an rpm in there before that so i changed to a bbm to hopefully be abit more defensive i have noticed my bbm being a bit too far forward when i get hit on the counter now that you mentioned it the reason a had the dlp on defend was to hope he added enough cover when i got hit on the counter plus to sort start my attacks going forward. yea the strikers i have are naturally complete forwards so thats why i went with that, i will mabey try a attacking midfielder with that combo see if it works anybetter or even with my cf. is there any of my team instructions you would take off or any you would add. thanks again for the feedback mate
 

rocheyb

Member
Jul 8, 2013
3,274
107
63
thanks for the feedback mate and helping me to try understand. yes i do get hit on the counter alot that is a big problem and where i do seem to lose alot of goals i was trying to press high up as you have said and sort of try to counter that with the offside trap and trying to stick close to the opposition and yes i am offside quite abit , i have that ap role as i was trying to get someone to come in the box from a deeper position but i will try what you have said with the roles, it does seem to get abit crowed in the middle that was my thinking with the winger on attack to stretch and stick to the touchline i would like to see my cf get abit more action in front of goal. as for my bbm i actually had an rpm in there before that so i changed to a bbm to hopefully be abit more defensive i have noticed my bbm being a bit too far forward when i get hit on the counter now that you mentioned it the reason a had the dlp on defend was to hope he added enough cover when i got hit on the counter plus to sort start my attacks going forward. yea the strikers i have are naturally complete forwards so thats why i went with that, i will mabey try a attacking midfielder with that combo see if it works anybetter or even with my cf. is there any of my team instructions you would take off or any you would add. thanks again for the feedback mate
If you're going to press the opposition in their own half, force them to counter attack you and maintain a high defensive line then you're going to be vulnerable to pace. During a swift counter attack, it's possible that no opposition players will ever be ahead of the ball - so they can't be offside, irrespective of where your defenders are. I'd abandon the offside trap, but as for the height of your defensive line, I'd have to say that I'm not sure. It will depend in part on your central defenders' Anticipation, Pace, Positioning, etc. Experiment and see what happens.

In terms of player positions, roles and duties think about "breaking the lines" - the idea that you don't want defence, midfield and attack operating separately from each other in three straight lines across the pitch, as though they were three governmental departments that never communicate with each other. Basically, you want individual players with the relevant skills to:

i) push forward from defence
ii) drop back from midfield
iii) attack from midfield
iv) hold the ball up in attack, so that...

...they cover one another in defensive areas and drag opposition players out of their positions when you're attacking, creating space for teammates to run into or space for the pass. That point I made about my Bordeaux AM(C)_Support; he will occupy the No.10 space and look to play short passes between defenders for the AF_Attack to run from the other side of his marker for a one-on-one with the 'keeper. So even though the AM(C) is in Support mode, he's actually one of the most offensive players on the pitch because of what he will do with the ball. Were he to be pushing further forward, closer to the striker, it might well make it easier for the two centre backs to nullify the threat by closing him down without leaving their own designated position, limiting the opportunities to thread those short passes. While he's sitting slightly deeper, one of those defenders has to decide whether to step out and engage him - and risk being picked off by a well executed pass or dribble.

In general, think about what each player is bringing to the team and how the players next to him, in front and behind are helping him to perform that role. If you're playing with width and encouraging full backs to attack, they're going to need the ball - so it's up to the men in the middle of the park to make sure they receive it. If you use a False-9 who drops deep to receive the ball, he'll need runners ahead of him to target with his pass. Don't put high crosses to the back post if the player most likely to be attacking the ball on that side is only 5'5" and can't jump. If you're using an Inside Forward who drives infield with the ball from wide positions, be aware that will create space on the wing that you can exploit - so how are you going to exploit it?
 
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andym1690

Member
Nov 17, 2010
58
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hey thanks again, been testing out what you have told and tactic seems to be abit more solid and has been working better for me the one thing that i have noticed though that is when i am attacking an get into the final third or in there box im not really getting any defense splitting passes through to my striker and my striker not getting alot of goals or clear cut chances would like to see my forward getting a few more goals was thinking about mabey taking work ball in to box of as well just seem to pass too much in the box even though i seem to get alot of shots off on the plus i am wining games and playing better a lot of my goals seem to come from my winger and inside forward. would just like to see my forward get on the score sheet more often
 

Sugar GG

Member
Dec 16, 2018
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Replying to andym1690's last question

hey thanks again, been testing out what you have told and tactic seems to be abit more solid and has been working better for me the one thing that i have noticed though that is when i am attacking an get into the final third or in there box im not really getting any defense splitting passes through to my striker and my striker not getting alot of goals or clear cut chances would like to see my forward getting a few more goals was thinking about mabey taking work ball in to box of as well just seem to pass too much in the box even though i seem to get alot of shots off on the plus i am wining games and playing better a lot of my goals seem to come from my winger and inside forward. would just like to see my forward get on the score sheet more often
Hi there! I know this thread is a little bit outdated but I would like to contribute my own knowledge to answer your question about not getting any "Defense splitting passes through to my striker is not getting a lot of goals or clear cut chances".

I'm not saying i am a great tactician but I've been playing fm for the past years and I would also like my knowledge to be checked by a more experienced FMer.

I suppose that following user rocheyb's recommendation you have changed few attackers to a more supportive option which is great as it opens more space for players with an attacking mindset player to exploit.

You point out that you are not getting as many goals and defense breaking passes to your striker as you would like. In my opinion, it could be that you are using a complete forward as your lone striker. In my understanding of the game, the complete forward is not a position that will score as much as a poacher or a target man. The complete forward is mostly used in a front 3 with two wide players and a lone striker with no AMC to provide the creative passes that the forward so need. By picking a complete forward and combining it with an AMC (I suppose you are using either an Attacking playmaker or an attacking midfielder previously suggested by Rocheyb), you are asking your striker to fulfill the job of creating chances which is already done by the AMC instead to fully concentrating on the end product, finishing.

And i see that you are using an inside forward i suppose on the left side and a winger on the right side of the front 4. You need to ask yourself, what are the jobs of these two players? Are they here to create chances or are they here to score? If they are here to create, you are better of playing with an advanced playmaker on the left (I suppose that you have a right footed forward in this position) that exploit the half spaces (move into channels) to drag defenders out and let other players exploit the space left by the defender. When it comes to the winger, you should task him to play crosses that would exploit the strength of your striker. If your striker is strong and has good jumping reach and header, you might task the winger to cross from the byline into the middle. If your striker is a pacy finisher, you might be better of tasking your winger to cross from deep (Before 10 enemy players rush into the box and make it impossible to get a single pass inside) and exploit pace with a through cross.

If the jobs of the two wide forwards are to score, then you should change the role of your striker to something more supportive, as the wide forwards need space and if your striker is on the complete forward role, he would occupy the central spaces and leave no space for the wide forwards to drive in. You might be better of playing with a false 9, deep lying forward or trequarista.

I Hope that i have answered your question!
If i have made any mistakes please feel free to point it out!
 
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