duca015

Member
Joined
Aug 6, 2014
Messages
102
Reaction score
0
Points
16
This is adaptation of tactic that I found on FMscout web site:
Ferguson's Asymmetric 4-3-3 Man Utd 07/08 | FM Scout

It looked like interesting tactic, and I give it a go. And, to tell you the truth, it is amazing as it is, there is no particular reason for changing anything. But I wanted to try out some new concepts, and since I liked some basic movement I found on this formation, it has some similarities to it, but, by the time I finished it, it looked a bit different, and, I think, it become more stable at back, and more creative upfront. Or, so it looked in my experience.

So, basic shape is the same, 4-3-2-1, or 4-3-3, call it what you like. First thing, I want to explain what concepts I wanted to try out, to understand a bit development of this formation.

Initial goal was to create tactic that will utilize IWB and EGN. First one I have never tried before, and I wanted to try it out, and second is, in my experience, THE BEST role in FM (why, I will explain latter). Second goal was to utilize WM role on right side that was, in my experience, amazing in original tactic.

So, at start, I just changed LB role to IWB, AM role to EGN, and tried it like that. To spare you long text, I will not tell You everything I tried and changed to get IWB role working, since it failed miserably. It was not effective going forward at all, no meter what I tried, I even changed (tried at least) to change formations, but, still, no success. So after a while, I decided to abandon this initial plan of mine. Then, as I tried to understand why it is not working, I stumble upon some role explanation (which I read before, but I completely forgot for it), and something interesting came up to my mind.

On original tactic, biggest problem was there was no initial space creation. I mean, period from wining the ball and attack startup, could be sometimes problematic, because, there was no clear target for outlet pass, DLF was too static, and INF was too withdrawn, to become main outlet. Second problem, due to fluid formation, and due to attacking mentality, formation had some issues defensively that could be exploited. All these arguments may not be true with adequate players, but in my case, these were the issues.

So, as I mentioned, I was reading role combinations, as I was trying to find the way to incorporate IWB in this tactic, and then it hit me... Why I would not try to make my front three (Striker, AML and AMC), as main counter attacking trio, inspired by Fabio Cappelo counter attacking concept? To explain this, I have to go back to Capello-s time in Juventus, and before this, in Roma.

Basically, trio was not really involved in defense, most activities that they had was that by their positioning, they forced opponent to move ball to other flank, or they slowed movement of ball, and give their teammates time to get back on defense and form stable defensive zone. Trio in both teams was formed of three players in which one was creative player coming deep for ball, one was fast player playing out on wide, and one was goal scorer. These are simplified roles, but I believe you get the picture. One was forcing defenses to get back, and thus creating space for creative withdrawn player to make an impact, while player out on wide was acting like option coming out of deep or as secondary creator out on wide.

So I tried with three most free roles in FM - Raumdeuter, Trequartista i Enganche. Idea was that they will give me exactly what I want, since all three roles are essential inactive defensively except for first wave pressing, and at the same time, when attacking on set defenses, these are roles that are in constant movement, trying to find some space for them, and by this movement, they often create space for other players.

Basically, on counter attack, my more defensive players have two options for outlet passes, shorter one, to EGN, who can then spray it over defense for pushing Treq, or behind defense for onrushing Rmd, and then come late to box to offer option for finishing counter attacking move. The other option is straight direct pass over defense to space investigating Treq.

To cut the story short, this is become so effective weapon for me that I would fell in love in this tactic just because of this trio, but this is only part of the story.

Due to use of three specialist roles, I had to change mentality to more conservative one, so I tried out standard, then structured, and latter one showed much better results, as trio upfront need space to operate, and also, it give team much more defensive stability trough shape that will not break as easily as with more fluid formation. When we at it, original formation has more aggressive pressing style, and it is clear that whit three players that are essentially lazy in defense, this is out of question. So I cut back pressing to sometimes. The third thing I did, that tactically differs to original formation was changing mentality to control, as these three roles are aggressive one, but they need space to operate effectively, and also, to attacking mentality could leave me even more open on defense, and this was already problem with original formation. the forth thing was ticking off "look for overlap" and "whipped crosses", as, for reasons I will explain latter, i actually did not rely as much on crossing as original formation.

Then, as I changed these things, it occurred to me that, some roles might not be best fit to this new look of tactics. First one I looked on was Left back. First thing, I needed more defensive role, and I have tried with supporting role, but as I played more, I realized, I actually do not need extra man upfront, and in fact, extra man was hurting me as he eat up space that could be used by Treq or RMD, and in defenses, I could use extra man with defensive mentality. Then, I was looking at my back 4. Two CD-s are ok, but I was too susceptible to balls behind defense, and since I have one fast and small and one tall and slow combo of CD-s, I decided to go with ST-COV combo, but with one twist. ST was traditionally tall player, strong player, and cov is traditionally fast player. I tried it, but fact is, I sow that I need from deep player to be more stable defender, stronger, better tackler, better in air, and these were all characteristics of my small guy. And second one, since DLP was positioned more to the right of formation, and WB was not really pushing forward and offering clear passing option, I thought that my ball playing CD would better suit on this left side of pitch, as this is where all action is going on in counters, so this seemed logical. At first, this "reverse role" solution was just forced solution due injuries and fact that I had to put player that could actually pass the ball on BPD on left, and this was my small guy, but as it turns out, this player actually does not need to win the ball, but it is more useful if he just narrow the space between defense and midfield and then manages to return to back line, so this is better suited for faster player, then strong, slower defender. And, on the other hand, putting stronger, better tackler and better in air player on cover role, gave me better "last chance" tackling/clearance results, as opponents could not shake off this player so easily as they did with my small, fast player. Fact that basically three of my four starting defenders are 14/14 and more in terms of pace and acceleration probably is helpful in efficiency of this setup, as three faster player have instructions to close down fast and often, so slower player is acting on instincts basically and clearing behind them if anything goes by. Also, shape of my team and roles I chose gave opponents most time for any trough balls on my left side, so having faster player in front to close down on this side and having strong player to clear any high balls is making harder for opponent to actually use fact that I have slow player defending space behind D-line. And Sweeper Keeper also helps :D

Then, since things changed in back, I had to consider my central mid-s paring. DLP was ok, but this change form CD-def to CD -cov left huge gap, so I had to patch it up. So I tried to change it and move DLP to left side, and CD to right, but it was not good enough. Then I moved DLP to right and change it to DEF mentality, and it was better. But then, on left side, I was in serious problem which role should I choose. I needed him to be more aggressive as he had to cover non-existence of left midfielder, so he could help out LB to do his job, and at the same time, I had to make him more aggressive with ball and without ball in final third. I tried multiply roles, but I finally settled on BWM-sup, which had instruction to play more direct passing. As it turns out, this was huge upgrade both in defense as well as in offense, as he is now covering huge amount of space, with his direct passing he is true dynamo of my formation, which is even one more danger for opponent to look out for, and which is probably biggest tactical choice you will have to make in creating your team identity, but that is something I will cover later on.

And right now, I was shore that I got it right. But, unfortunately, that was not case. That WMR position, that I really liked in original tactic, was not active. He was often marked out of game. So, I tried with adding more dribble shout to him, but this was killing essential role that I liked, so finally, I got it right with attacking mentality, and two more shouts, crossing from deep and roam from position.

And that was it. My final formation looks like this:
View attachment 89260View attachment 89258

So I will explain in more detail how this works, and what would I look in player in specific position:

GK - Sweeper Keeper - in truth, his most important role is to clear any trough ball, dominate in air during defensive set pieces, and to have solid one on one, as occasionally there will be some situation when he will have to deal with this. But in general, after using this tactic for one season, this is truly once in every three games, so if I had to choose, I would look for good tall GK with solid rushing out and agility stats, positioning, anticipation and concentration.
FB - r - WB-supp - in this tactic, he sits narrow, close down more, closing down in gap between WMR and DLP, as well as closing down any potential crosses, or closing down players that could move down channel between CD and him. In attack, he offers wide presence at all times, and coming in final wave for crosses byline. As I said, he is pretty quick player in my case, (16 acc, 15 pace) with solid defensive and crossing stats, but nothing spectacular. I would say that is more important to have speedy defensive back then someone who could contribute a lot in attack.
FB -l WB-def - defensively, it is same as his right side counterpart, with difference that he has more ground to cover. On the offensive side, things look a bit different. It is ok to have strictly defensive player here, but if you got player that has good passing, vision and anticipation, things could be very interesting. I have player that is solid in these things, and he occasionally can move in middle to use space left by BWM, and create some interesting passes in space for either WMR or FBR. He can also send pretty passes over defense for Treq and RMD sometimes. So, look for defensive solid player first, with good pace and high work rate, but also, if you can afford it, look for some creative passers here.
CD-r - CD-cov - Here I have one really tall player, strong in air, good tackling and overall really good CB. His biggest problem is his speed with 11 both acc and pace. And it is really good for this role, and I could only occasionally see problems due lack of speed. So, you are looking at some solid CB with good defensive stats, decent passing ability, and this should be good enough.
CD L - CD-st - As I said this guy closes gap between defense and midfield and then moves back to line to help out if needed. He usually has big space that opponent could move into, so his role is to slow down attacks, not necessarily win ball, but to slow down and give time for other players to position better. After winning the ball, usually he is the one of the players that starts counters with quick direct passes to TREQ over defense, or in front of them, depending on Treq movement. As I said, here I have qucik player (14/15), that is solid defensively, but nothing spectacular, with solid passing and technical ability. That is what you should look as well.
WMR - WM-ATT - like I said before for BWM, he is another one that gives dynamism to this formation. On defensive side, he practically cuts off any offensive activity from opponents LB, and sometimes, he and his partner FB can be so active that they dominate right side and thus completely neutralize opponents on this side of pitch. At start of attack, he is wide, offering passing option, that he usually send back to other players. Since he has roam more option and short passing, as well as cut inside with ball, he can hurt you in so many ways just by movement and fast pass exchange. He has also option to cross from deep if he see fit... It is like WP without WP need to attract ball, without need to dribble but effect is, if not same, then is better. Also, combination of roles around him make this role truly exciting to watch. Here, I use two players. One is solid athlete, high work rate player, but in technical terms, he is not really good (on average, all creative/technical ratings are 12 an below). But, he has huge work rate and most importantly OFF BALL movement of 16, so when I use him, usually I tick on "dribble less", and he becomes someone who moves all the time in all possible spaces making hard for opponents to deal with him. The other one is fast, bit more attacking player, but which is atrocious on defense. He has movement off ball high as well (15) and solid work rate (14). So all in all, I would say that most important stats you need for this player for this role to work are Work rate and off the ball. It would be nice to have good crosser here and good finisher, as he will cross and he will be in solid number of situations to finish of moves, but first and most important things to look for are Work rate and Movement of the ball. And Decisions.
CMR - DLP -def - although I choose here DLP, I did not see too many benefits of this role in terms of him sending some fantastic trough balls forward, although I give him free pass to send more risky balls forward, it might not be needed to use this role in particular, but it works well in system, and I did not feel need to change it once more. It may be his role that is giving him freedom to move and help smooth ball movement wherever it is needed, and it is basically guy that sits in front of defense, has most tackles in team together with LB (has tackle harder ticked on), so it is working out well for me. In terms of attack, once again, composure, movement off ball, and solid passing is quit good. Basically as better fit for DLP role as described, better he will be. If he has good movement of ball, you may see him moving with ball and creating some beautiful pass exchanges that triggers half counter attacks (situation where you have a ball and moving it from side to side to force opponent to move towards you and thus create space behind defense, or between defense and midfield that you can quickly exploit... In a way, all other players that play defense (so without front 3) are hassling opponents to max, so in way, every opponent move is basically forced in space that he or CD-cov occupy, where they are doubled and tackled.
CML- BWM -sup - I started off on this position by selection CM-sup, but this role was to static to have any real contribution ether on offense, or on defense. So I tried RPM, but he was too aggressive with ball, eating up space for front three, instead of just giving them one more pass option, and in defense, he was too out of position. Then I tried to use BTB, but, once more, too aggressive with ball, too much dribbling, and too fast coming in in final third. Then I tried on BWM, and after try and fail process, after adding more direct passing, I got fantastic results. He is one more dynamo of this team, someone who is giving rhythm to your team (I would love for this player to have PPM dictate tempo). Since he is surrounded by players more advanced then him, he always have option, so more direct passing is not looking like 40 yards (meters) passes, but rather 10 yard passes, that speed up ball movement and unsettle opposition by change of pace. He also can be find in second wave of attack as someone who uses space created by front three lurking on 18 yard space with ball unmarked, or in third wave in box to come on the end of crosses. On defense, he is closing down and helping out LB, directing traffic towards DLP, and sometimes wins the ball over, but goal is not, as it is case with CD-L to win the ball, but to force opposition in double team, or into mistakes.
Here I use two different players, depending on opposition I am playing against. If they are top heavy, I am using small, fast, creative, more of offensive, something like AP player type, as he will have more space to exploit between lines, and he can be faster in goal scoring situations. He is not an particularly aggressive player nor the particularly good in art of defense, but fact is, I truly dont need him to be in this situation, but I rather have him to close down fast (without tackling), force play towards my DLP.
If I face bottom heavy formation, I use more physically powerful player who can close down high up the field and move into scoring position where he can be useful in air.
You can try out any possible option here, and see what is fitting you better, but my opinion is that this player have to have high work rate and good stamina. You will see how this role differ depending on player you use.
AMC - EGN - att - Hearth and soul of this team! In order to be able to get most of him, there are some rules you have to follow, but once you have, you see this role in full glory. Description of this role is not particularly good in my opinion, as it is described as static role, but this is role that creates sooo muuuuch space for him and players all around him that you can not get this effect with any other role in FM. He is pass and move guy in team, until he is without marker, and then you see magic. Firstly, with only pass and move dynamic, which is mostly up and down 5 yards, he constantly unsettles opposition back line, which is creating a lot of possible mistakes from them. If he has really good decision and movement, mistakes will happen no matter who is in this defense. And sometimes, opponents will just forgot of him, so they will face player on 20-25 yards from goal facing their goal with wast range of options, if they close him down, someone is bounded to use this space, if not, he will run at them and thus create space that someone will use. Or if he is like Messi, he will go past them and score. If he was left behind defense, well, this is clear cut chance. This guy can be, as I said, someone like Messi, or he can be someone like Riquelme, or he can be some tall dude that will dominate opponent with his physique, it does not meter. This role will, by sheer force of its value, create space, and it will be effective. That is the beauty of it. You do not need this of that kind of player for it to be effective. I used TM striker type here, I used anchorman type here, I used wingers, etc. They were all effective, just in different ways. But, this role has to have passing options and has to have space to do its thing. If you can create this setting, it will do its magic.
Here I am using mostly faster, creative players, but as I said, you do not need to do the same. Just try it out, you might just get best results with some stoper...
AML - RMD- att - one more moving trouble for opponents. He will drop in space if Treq decide to move from it, use space out wide if there is space, come deep, attack diagonally... I mean, true disaster for defense. And, even more dangerous on break, as he is using space that nobody is in, well, except him.
I use here two type of players, one is true INF, but creative one. He acts like running at defense, tries one two passes, shoots from distance occasionally, tries trough balls, and moves to come on the end of crosses. The other one, is more of winger.He will be more active byline then going directly at goal.
First one is more goal scorer, and second is more of assistant, but they both have quite fair number of both. But, most important trait for this to work is movement of the ball.
ST - TREQ-att - In theory, if you have ENG in team, your counter attacks will not be so effective. I guess this is reason why, besides unawareness on how ENG really works, is the reason why there just a few tactics with EGN. But TREQ make this line of thought outdated. As you all know by now, he is creative and playmaking role as well, so there is natural magnet that pulls ball over to ENG all the time, but you have one natural balance in team with two true creative players (or at least, roles). This is the reason why counter attacking football with this formation is not only possible, but it is great, and one of best parts of watching games.
Treq is sometimes moving towards the ball, sometimes is exploiting space behind defenses. In both cases, he is creating, just by moving like this, tons of options. Your players can decide to find him behind defense, and if he is fast enough, you might have your one-two punch in FM. Or in same situation, they may decide to pass it to RMD or ENG. Either way, because of Treq pushing back D-line, both of them now have space to run into with ball, and usually in situation 3-3 where player with ball and one other player are unmarked, this is PARTY TIME!
Or, he may come towards the ball, in which case, RMD can push forward and exploit space left behind, or if D-line does not move, he will be in space with the ball without marker. Once again, PARTY TIME!
And, in attacking zone, he will move all over the place, creating havoc in defensive line, and combined with RMD and ENG, but do not forgot our BWM, it is just question how good is he in scoring and assisting, not will he ever have opportunity to do it.
Best option for this player is to use TREQ described type of player. You can use lot of different types, and if you set up correctly and if you use right type of players, you can get away with any type. Only prerequisite that this player has at least 15 movement off the ball, as he, along with other two most advanced players are the ones that create space for everything that is happening in final third.
For other, if you find fast, creative player, he will be equally important as assistant and as scorer. if you find tall player, he will be real poacher, if you find unicorn, tall guy that can do it all (not so regular case, but it happens sometimes), you will see true magic, passes trough forest of legs and stuff like that.


On final note, most of these things you will get if you just try it out, try different types of players in different positions and roles and see how different tactic is acting. Biggest value of this tactic that I created is movement off the ball, which creates wast range of opportunities and possibilities. It is then up to your players to execute. If your team lack vision, they will fail to see that RMD is free (for example), if they lack anticipation, they will fail to see that they will be doubled, if they have low creativity, they will not try more advanced passes, etc. If you look close enough, you will see them in every match, against every opponent. Thing that you have to decide, in order for this to work, is to choose right players for right occasion. And to select your team in accordance with style you want to play. For example, if you face some formation with 2cb (or 3 cbs) and one or two DMC-s in front, you may be successful with short attacking players, but it will be ****** hard to do it in style, or if you are using slow midfielders, against fast opponent, chances are that this formation will not be effective. Not this tactic, but this formation, as your midfield will be bypassed quickly and your defense will be in trouble most of game. Formation is basic setup, how you want your team to shape. By just looking at this, you can see three huge holes, that may be exploited, if you do not have adequate players who can close those gaps fast enough. And there are holes that can be exploited against every formation. Beauty of this tactic is that it is set up that can exploit every formation, and can dominate against any type of style, provided YOU make right calls in selection of players.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BwzH5eeeHHhCVjFJR3BhaC1oTVk
 
Last edited:
I applaud your OP! Bravo! Great work, really made me want to try this.
 
Just quick update... After scoring over 100 league goals in first season, in second season, all opponents leave 4 deep defenders behind ball all the time, so it is bit harder to get something out of counterattacks (but still possible), and if you have players a bit reckless, you may find yourself in situation that they loose ball while dribbling, and that your D-line which is pushing forward at that time is bypassed by quick long ball over them.

Easy solution is to put your D-line on normal, or slightly higher setup. If you are better team, try to score first, and then pull the line back.
 
got use OI? match preparation?

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk
 
Training is basic 3 weeks of fitness, then balanced. If you see issues in defense, move to defense, if you see issues in attack, move to attack for short period of time (week or two). Regarding match preparation, I usually follow scout advice, but not always. For example, if I saw some issues in previous game in attack, I will set match preparation to attacking movement regardless of opposition and recommendation.

Regarding OI-s, I have not decided yet. Defensively, your wings are plugged, and rarely will you see problems there. Most problems that could occur trough middle, due to bad positioning of two cm-s. I am trying to figure it out, but I am still not soled on any Oi, so, at the moment, if I am not trying something out, I dont use any.
 
Great OP, great tactic. Very well done Duca! Plugged it into my Man Utd save (2019) and it did really well. Mind you, I do have some fantastic players tho (Griezmann, Bern Silva and Kane as my front 3).

Would probably recommend having quick CBs with such a high def line, dont think you pushed that enough in the OP.

But it plays beautifully.

Going to try it with a default Real Madrid soon.
 
Glad you like it... Right now, I am having problems with it due to fact that everyone is playing extremely cautious and extremely deep against me, and my chairman soled my best striker, so I having hard time finding adequate replacement, because, well, I am playing Serbian championship and I am in debt :)

So, I would say having quality players in those three positions is must, or else, everything is much much harder. Right now, I have quality players on two of them, but my striker is not so good...
 
One more update... I guess I needed for my new striker to blend in and to get him going before he would be effective in this formation.
After short tactical experiment, he started scoring in some other tactics, so I returned to this, and it is working like a charm ;)
 
Ok, two season later, I have new update on stuff I found using this tactic:

1. Best case scenarios

You are playing against 4-4-2 flat. Basically, this is destroyer of 4-4-2. I am yet to play game where I did not had 60+% possesion and over 80% accuracy of my passes, and less then 20 shots, most of them from penalty area.
Simply, this formation is simply powerless to move the ball against solid defensive shape either way, and by patient build up play in attack, most of game, two strikers are cut off from rest of team. With this much time on ball on opponent half and with this much creativity, there is on way in **** you are not going to dominate game.

Any bottom heavy formation without DMC - long ball build up - Most likely result will be same as 4-4-2 flat formation.

Other 4-4-2 variations. Little less dominant against them, but still, all variation have same problem, striker is isolated, build up is hard, and numbers advantage in deep positions almost always create easy tackles or interceptions. What other variations make little bit harder for you is that opponent usually have one or more DMC-s in game, which limit space for your attack.

4-2-3-1 wide - long ball build up. Little trickier due better options in moving ball, but opponent still have huge problem in moving ball in more offensive positions. Once he succeed, you might have problem, but most of time, you have advantage in wining exit ball (long ball to more advanced players) and start possession again. In terms of attacking, absence of any DMC is clear advantage for you.

4-1-2-3 wide - long ball build up. Little trickier to score against, due to presence of DMC who often man marking your ENG. In terms of defense, same story, total domination in possession.

4-2-1-3 wide 2dmc - long build up. Even more trickier to score against, but even more problematic for your opponent to move forward.

Any bottom heavy formation with DMC - long ball build up - truly hard to crack down, most likely you will have to include Your FB-s more in attacking play. In terms of your defense, there is little to worry about until final 15 minutes of games, as these games tend to drain stamina from your players, thus they are more prone to mistakes.


2. Possible issues

- Opponent is playing slow build up, with big advantage in numbers in midfield (any formation with 5 midfielders, especially with creative DMC variation).

Basically, by slow build up, they tend to bypass your front three, and create numerical advantage in advanced positions against your defense. Only two central midfielders are having problems to cover space infront of D-line, so occasionally, this may force your DC-s to leave their position , and by this, create space for opponents.

There is no need to panic though, as you still have options for quick outlet pass and counter attack. This only mean that your, most of time, solid defense might crack under pressure in these games, and that you may not have possession domination as you are used to, but if opponent is not much better then you in terms of player quality, most of time, slow build up and numerical advantage mean space for you as well on counter. And your counter attack is devastating. Thees are games that most of time, you win with results 4-2, 4-3, 5-2, etc...

If your opponent has much better players then you do, and if they are playing slow build up game, and have numerical advantage in midfield, I would suggest to change your approach. This may pin down your defense, force even your RMD and ENG to come back and help out defense, and for most of game, your Treq will be isolated, and your game plan will crush. Luckily, I faced this problem only 3-4 times in these two seasons.

Second problem is direct 4-3-3 with one or two extremely defensive midfielders and defensive FB. They are limiting space for you, and then forcing space behind your defense. Three strikers mean they will always find some space, and if they have fast enough and good enough strikers, this could lead to problems for you in both ends. This is much, much less problematic approach, but if you do not react, it could become disaster for you. Easiest way to counter this is to pull Your D-line to Normal. This is create (most of time) space for your attack, and will also restrict space opponents strikers can use. This formation (at least in my experience) is used mostly by middle to high quality squads and mostly when they are chasing results against dominant opponent (that would be You), so pay attention when opponent changes formation to 4-3-3, or you may regret latter. The other formation that could create similar effect is 4-2-2-2 (two DMC-s, 2 wingers), with basically same problems.

So, in conclusion, strategies that may create problems for you are back 4+1 of your opponent that are strictly defensive, as this limit space and thus your effectiveness in creating chances. You may solve this puzzle either by pushing back and forcing opponent to push his D-line little more up field, or by making your FB-s more attacking, and thus creating overloads. Once you break this kind of formation, usually, you will crush them.
Second approach that could bi problematic is 5 midfielders, slow build up opponents (especially ones with DMC). Usually, they will leave space, but pay attention on quality of your opponent. If they are much better then you, you should probably think about changing something in your approach, maybe play more counter attacking style, or more patient style.
And third problematic approach is top heavy, counter attacking, direct formation that can exploit space behind your defense. Here, most problems you have will probably solved by simple moving your D-line little bit deeper.

Hope, this is helpful for you... ;)
 
Starting to use this in my MSK Zilina sporting director challenge. Will report back on my progress.
 
Ok, two season later, I have new update on stuff I found using this tactic:

1. Best case scenarios

You are playing against 4-4-2 flat. Basically, this is destroyer of 4-4-2. I am yet to play game where I did not had 60+% possesion and over 80% accuracy of my passes, and less then 20 shots, most of them from penalty area.
Simply, this formation is simply powerless to move the ball against solid defensive shape either way, and by patient build up play in attack, most of game, two strikers are cut off from rest of team. With this much time on ball on opponent half and with this much creativity, there is on way in **** you are not going to dominate game.

Any bottom heavy formation without DMC - long ball build up - Most likely result will be same as 4-4-2 flat formation.

Other 4-4-2 variations. Little less dominant against them, but still, all variation have same problem, striker is isolated, build up is hard, and numbers advantage in deep positions almost always create easy tackles or interceptions. What other variations make little bit harder for you is that opponent usually have one or more DMC-s in game, which limit space for your attack.

4-2-3-1 wide - long ball build up. Little trickier due better options in moving ball, but opponent still have huge problem in moving ball in more offensive positions. Once he succeed, you might have problem, but most of time, you have advantage in wining exit ball (long ball to more advanced players) and start possession again. In terms of attacking, absence of any DMC is clear advantage for you.

4-1-2-3 wide - long ball build up. Little trickier to score against, due to presence of DMC who often man marking your ENG. In terms of defense, same story, total domination in possession.

4-2-1-3 wide 2dmc - long build up. Even more trickier to score against, but even more problematic for your opponent to move forward.

Any bottom heavy formation with DMC - long ball build up - truly hard to crack down, most likely you will have to include Your FB-s more in attacking play. In terms of your defense, there is little to worry about until final 15 minutes of games, as these games tend to drain stamina from your players, thus they are more prone to mistakes.


2. Possible issues

- Opponent is playing slow build up, with big advantage in numbers in midfield (any formation with 5 midfielders, especially with creative DMC variation).

Basically, by slow build up, they tend to bypass your front three, and create numerical advantage in advanced positions against your defense. Only two central midfielders are having problems to cover space infront of D-line, so occasionally, this may force your DC-s to leave their position , and by this, create space for opponents.

There is no need to panic though, as you still have options for quick outlet pass and counter attack. This only mean that your, most of time, solid defense might crack under pressure in these games, and that you may not have possession domination as you are used to, but if opponent is not much better then you in terms of player quality, most of time, slow build up and numerical advantage mean space for you as well on counter. And your counter attack is devastating. Thees are games that most of time, you win with results 4-2, 4-3, 5-2, etc...

If your opponent has much better players then you do, and if they are playing slow build up game, and have numerical advantage in midfield, I would suggest to change your approach. This may pin down your defense, force even your RMD and ENG to come back and help out defense, and for most of game, your Treq will be isolated, and your game plan will crush. Luckily, I faced this problem only 3-4 times in these two seasons.

Second problem is direct 4-3-3 with one or two extremely defensive midfielders and defensive FB. They are limiting space for you, and then forcing space behind your defense. Three strikers mean they will always find some space, and if they have fast enough and good enough strikers, this could lead to problems for you in both ends. This is much, much less problematic approach, but if you do not react, it could become disaster for you. Easiest way to counter this is to pull Your D-line to Normal. This is create (most of time) space for your attack, and will also restrict space opponents strikers can use. This formation (at least in my experience) is used mostly by middle to high quality squads and mostly when they are chasing results against dominant opponent (that would be You), so pay attention when opponent changes formation to 4-3-3, or you may regret latter. The other formation that could create similar effect is 4-2-2-2 (two DMC-s, 2 wingers), with basically same problems.

So, in conclusion, strategies that may create problems for you are back 4+1 of your opponent that are strictly defensive, as this limit space and thus your effectiveness in creating chances. You may solve this puzzle either by pushing back and forcing opponent to push his D-line little more up field, or by making your FB-s more attacking, and thus creating overloads. Once you break this kind of formation, usually, you will crush them.
Second approach that could bi problematic is 5 midfielders, slow build up opponents (especially ones with DMC). Usually, they will leave space, but pay attention on quality of your opponent. If they are much better then you, you should probably think about changing something in your approach, maybe play more counter attacking style, or more patient style.
And third problematic approach is top heavy, counter attacking, direct formation that can exploit space behind your defense. Here, most problems you have will probably solved by simple moving your D-line little bit deeper.

Hope, this is helpful for you... ;)

thanks for that help. how can you check if your oponent playing slow build up or long ball build up ?
 
By watching games in extensive or in comprehensive mode. If you see that his GK is passing to his CB-s, then moving ball from side to side looking for an opening, this is slow build up. On the other hand, if you see his GK is punting ball often, this is long ball build up.
 
First of all, really appreciate the work you've put into this tactic and post.

I decided to give the tactic a try and thought I'd give you some initial thoughts.

Okay I am a few seasons into a save with Hampton & Richmond, I've been doing pretty well getting yo-yoing between Conference South & Conference National (I've got hardly any money & constantly lose my best players so its a challenge).

I've assembled what I think is a very solid, hard working team with some decent quality in the attacking areas. We're certainly competitive in the division & expect to be challenging every season. My side is fit and morale is high. I played some friendlies to get the squad familiar with the tactic.

So....on to the tactic.

My first league match was against a weaker team playing 4-4-2. They played a fairly standard conservative system. We lost 5-0. They constantly hit us on the break with pace and we just couldn't cope. My defenders are quick compared to the division average but the high line was a nightmare and quick east balls over the top caught us out every time. 1 CCC to their 4.
We had 53% of possession. 11 shots to their 16. We outperformed them on most stats apart from tackles won where they just completely dominated us. They seemed to be able to win the ball on one flank and immediately switch the ball to the other flank ready to launch a killer pass in behind.

My second league match was against a slightly stronger team playing a 4-1-2-2-1/4-3-3. I dropped my D-line to Normal like you said. We lost 4-2. The story of the match was very similar. We were the better team according to most of the stats but they seemed to be able to break on us at pace and we just didn't have enough bodies back. We did manage to get two goals and they were from pressure high up the pitch and forcing a turn over of possession.

My third league match was against a side near the bottom of the table. They played a counter-attacking 4-4-2 and relied on pace in behind us again. We won 2-1. We went in front after some nice football but with their first attack they equalised. We got a winner later on after some substitutions. We weren't very impressive. We seemed to get outmuscled far to often and were just far too open at the back.

My fourth game was against a lower mid table side playing a very similar counter-attacking 4-4-2. They hammered us 5-1. They won the ball and just raced up the other end and had overloads.


I'm sure my experience isn't everyone's experience. I'm sure if I had tried with a better team the results might have been different but I thought it was worth trying it with a good Conference South side and letting you know how I got on.

I didn't use any OIs and my excellent assistant takes all the team talks.

I think I'm going to go back to my tried and trusted robust & conservative 4-1-2-2-1.
 
Marco, thank You for detailed report...

From what I read, It seam you lack quality upfront. Front three have to be really good for league you are playing in in order for this to work, as, due to structured system, everything is basically channeled trough them. They are the ones that are creating space, scoring goals and create chances for others. If they are not good enough, then, this tactic can be exploited, because they have freedom to run at defenders, to try risky passes...

As I wrote in first post, this is not plug and play tactic, but an experiment that gave me results and produced some great football, and this is the reason I posted it in first place, for you to try it out... I do realize that it has its flaws, I mean, you are defending with only 7 man in field, your left side has one great hole in it, your defensive line is really high. If you do not have good, smart, hardworking players in those position that are playing defense, chances are you will get burned, as well as if you do not have quality trio upfront. So this is hardly tactic for lower leagues, but it is for teams that can cope with requirements. I mean, I see flaws when i do not start my first option left back, I have much more problems at back, because this is young player that is not really ready for this kind of responsibility that I put on left back.

BTW, I do not have top team, but I did beat Juventus twice 4-0 and 4-1 with this tactic. And they played 4-4-2 and had Dybala and Higuain upfront, so, it can be played with lesser teams, but your team have to be built to play it.
 
I like the concept of this tactic but it seems to open defensively for me. Somehow the opposition manage to play around my midfield who seems outnumbered because the EG doesn't help out much.
 
Top