Arrigo Sacchi's 4-4-2 Tweaks Thread

[herne79]

Tweaked Tactics List

Please see post #2 below for a list of all tweaked tactics.


Credit

First and foremost, all credit for the core tactic goes to seanhrfc for his original work found here http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...ure-attacking-tactic-top-teams-underdogs.html

Anyone visiting this thread should familiarise themselves with the OP from seanhrfc in that thread and, preferably, download his original tactic. There is a lot of important info there about how to get the most from the tactic which won't be reprinted here.


Thread Purpose

Various tweaks to seanhrfc's original tactic have been suggested, so in order to try(!) to keep track of them, and to keep the original thread as on topic as we can, with seanhrfc's agreement I've started this new thread to aid discussion on developing (tweaking) the tactic further.


Basic Principles

The core of the original tactic is a rock solid defensive formation of a flat back four with two defensive midfielders ahead. No "tweaks" discussed here should have any major impact on this as changing that would quickly move away from the heart of the tactic. Instead, discussion should be centred around the attacking formation of the four most advanced positions, along with changes to shouts, OIs, training etc.


Sharing Tweaked Tactics

If you wish to share any tweaked tactics, please link them along with screen shots and description of your tweaks. There is no need to go into huge detail, as seanhrfc has already done so in his original OP .

I'll reserve a couple of extra posts at the start so I can keep things updated.

 

[herne79]

List of Tweaked Tactics

Flick forward to these posts for tactic downloads and descriptions.

Page 1, post #4 - "The Wingless 4-2-3-1"

Page 2, post #18 - "Brazil 1970"

Page 8, post #75 - "4-4-1-1" Trequartista (from seanhrfc)

Page 13, post #121 - "4-2-3-1" with advanced wingers (from lipecamara)

Page 17, post #169 - "4-2-3-1" with Trequartista and AML/R wingers (from Gonzo11)

 

[herne79]

Other Tweaks


Shouts

"Exploit the flanks" can prove useful if playing with wingers (such as seanhrfc's original) against a wingless opponent.



Opposition Instructions

Some people have reported that not using OIs can still produce good results. If you have a decent assistant as outlined by seanhrfc, or you are happy doing them yourself, it is still probably best to use OIs - and certainly start using them if results are patchy.

 

[herne79]

The wingless 4-2-3-1 Tweak

Tactic link attached below.

The basic formation is:
View attachment 328637

I've been playing this as Real Madrid with amazing results.

The tweak is fairly simple - attacking formation changed to 2 attacking midfielders (attack duty) in the AMCL/R positions, with an Advanced Playmaker (support) in between and a Deep Lying Forward (attack) ahead.

The mentality is also tweaked - I play "control" away from home and "attacking" at home. It may be possible to just play "attacking" as per the original, however I seemed to get better results with the duel set up. Both tactics are attached.

The AP links up well with the defensive formation, with the three designated attackers all working as a cohesive unit.

Team width is slightly wider than seanhrfc's original, plus the AP is ticked as the playmaker.

The 2 AMCs should ideally have decent stats for Finishing, Acceleration, Dribbling, Passing along with good techincal & mental attributes. Retraining strikers or wingers would also work well. I've been playing Ronaldo and Di Maria in these two roles and they have been outstanding.

NOTE - if you can, play a right footed player as AMCL and a left footed player as AMCR.

The AP is your primary flair player, needing lots of creativity. Finishing is not so important.


Results

For the first half of a new season: P36 W35 D1 L0 For 135 Against 15.
View attachment 328638

 

[KillerQueen]

Would it possible to know about match prep. training of yours?
I think Chelsea is the best suitable team for the tweak tactics ! I'll try it.

 

[herne79]

Would it possible to know about match prep. training of yours?
I think Chelsea is the best suitable team for the tweak tactics ! I'll try it.

No change from the original tactic.

ie., Team Training is always set to Balanced / Average with Match Prep for every match set to def. positioning. Just set these as defaults and forget about them .

(Set team training to tactics / high at the start of the season until the team are at least competent with it).

 

[galego25]

Good idea.

Another tweak with potential for sucess is a deep 4231, which is a formation that many people like to use on FM. From the original tactic, I would suggest moving the MR/L to AMR/L (winger attack), the CF to AMC (advanced playmaker support) and centering the striker (advanced forward). Also don't forget to make sure the 2 DMC are on support (when you change to this formation usually one of them is automatically changed to defensive).

I tested this for just a few games and it was very good, but it was with a big team. I haven't played more with it for now because I have various saves going, and I'm currently playing another save using the original tactic.

 

[herne79]

Good idea.

Another tweak with potential for sucess is a deep 4231, which is a formation that many people like to use on FM. From the original tactic, I would suggest moving the MR/L to AMR/L (winger attack), the CF to AMC (advanced playmaker support) and centering the striker (advanced forward). Also don't forget to make sure the 2 DMC are on support (when you change to this formation usually one of them is automatically changed to defensive).

I tested this for just a few games and it was very good, but it was with a big team. I haven't played more with it for now because I have various saves going, and I'm currently playing another save using the original tactic.

Yeh a deep 4231 could be great. Definately one that needs developing.

 

[a_ilfandy]

Sorry if I got it wrong, but are you suggesting us to use (4-2-3-1 DM.tac) at home and (4-2-3-1 DMA.tac) at away games?

Thanks in advance.

 

[seanhrfc]

Sorry if I got it wrong, but are you suggesting us to use (4-2-3-1 DM.tac) at home and (4-2-3-1 DMA.tac) at away games?

Thanks in advance.

Think it's the other way round, the DMA one is the attacking one for home games and DM is the control for away games.

 

[a_ilfandy]

Think it's the other way round, the DMA one is the attacking one for home games and DM is the control for away games.

Aah. I see. I thought the DM(A) indicates the Away tactic. I havent check the settings yet.

Btw, congrats Sean! You made one **** of a tactic.
When people say 'your tactic make the game boring'. Thats a huge compliment.
I still cant believe someone manage to do it in FM13.
Well, many already claim huge personal success, but very few experience the same when they use their tactic.

I dunno whats above respect and admiration, but there you go!

 

[kompo7ko]

m8 this tactic you tweaked is great i am playing with modena and i am in semi final of the cup, standing at top of the league serie B i just have a question for you because my central defenders are not so good in ball playing can i change them and to what..thanks a lot : )

 

[kitchin75]

its completly diffrent from arrigo sachi how can it be a tweak?
its working good with top team only

its still the same tac all he as chaged is the front 4 its working with modena and there not a top team

 

[herne79]

m8 this tactic you tweaked is great i am playing with modena and i am in semi final of the cup, standing at top of the league serie B i just have a question for you because my central defenders are not so good in ball playing can i change them and to what..thanks a lot : )

Feel free to tweak your defenders, that's the whole point of this thread .

Try them as regular centre backs, let us know how you get on.

 

[herne79]

its completly diffrent from arrigo sachi how can it be a tweak?
its working good with top team only

Re-read the OP . The whole point is to experiment with the core tactic created by seanhrfc to see how the attacking formation can be developed to tailor things to individual teams. This is not a thread for one specific tactic.

I posted a tweaked tactic that works nicely for my Real Madrid team, which may or may not work for other teams, but hopefully you can see how different things can work which may lead others to tweaking things as well.

This is all about discussion and experimenting .

 

[kitchin75]

Re-read the OP . The whole point is to experiment with the core tactic created by seanhrfc to see how the attacking formation can be developed to tailor things to individual teams. This is not a thread for one specific tactic.

I posted a tweaked tactic that works nicely for my Real Madrid team, which may or may not work for other teams, but hopefully you can see how different things can work which may lead others to tweaking things as well.

This is all about discussion and experimenting .

well said that man and its working a charm with my rangers save at the mo would love to give it a go with the might that is my san marino save but dont have 3 good amc i have 1 but not 3 so will give it a try when i do get some but good work with the thred dont let the haters get you down

 

[herne79]

The Brazil 1970 Approximation


Background

View attachment 328674

For a while now, a little pet project of mine has been to try to emulate in FM2013 the 1970 Brazil World Cup team's tactic (see above).

I had an experiment a little while ago, with mixed results (see here http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...s-training/114834-brazil-1970-*mirrored*.html) and I've been dabbling with it ever since. When seanhrfc posted his tactic, I saw the possibilities of adapting it to suit my Brazil 1970 tactic, and results have been quite good.

It's worth noting I use the word "approximation" with due thought - this is an attempt to form a decent tactic within the confines of the ME based on the Brazil formation, rather than trying to produce an identical tactic. Whilst the 1970 team are legendary, having such a focus on attack as this team did would not work very well in game.

Remember - the team may have won the World Cup with some style, but no World Cup winners before or since have ever conceded more goals during the competition!


The Formation

Here is how the formation lines up, with a heat map of how it actually appears on the pitch. Compare it to the original above.

View attachment 328675View attachment 328676

In comparison to seanhrfc's original, all I have changed are:

- Right wing moved up to a more advanced position and changed to IF (attack)
- Left striker moved back to AMCL and changed to Trequartista (the Pele role)
- Right striker changed to DLF (support)
- DMR changed to Anchor Man
- Right back changed to Wingback (attack) (the Carlos Alberto role)

The reason for changing the DMR to Anchor Man is to provide additional defensive cover on the right when the attacking wingback advances. Take a look at this screenshot to see it in action:

View attachment 328677

"A" is the overlapping wingback in the advanced winger position
"B" is the Inside Forward in acres of space
"C" is the Anchor Man covering the right wing


Results

I originally tested this tactic with Spurs, who seem to have almost the perfect squad. 5-1 wins against Real Madrid and Arsenal says it all. The addition of Wellington Nem in the IF role was especially effective.

I then started a new save using West Brom to see how this may work with a lower rep. team, and these are the results:
View attachment 328678
Not bad at all for a team of West Brom's position.

Sure, only half a season played so far, but then the whole point of this thread is to generate ideas and discussion to see what may be achievable, rather than fully fledged tactics with all the "I's" dotted and "T's" crossed .

 

[kitchin75]

Whats with the haters?
i see no haters here we are talking about the tactic
the talks between me and the ob so STFU

dont use txt talk got something to say it like a man if not go home

 

[herne79]

ok do you think 2 BPDs is a bit strange specially when u reduce their through balls to rare?
in what way you can modefy this for under teams?

Reducing the through balls to rarely (was already reduced to "sometimes" in seanhrfc's tactic) helped to improve the amount of possession I was getting, whilst still leaving some extra creativity in place for the defenders. It would probably work just as well with regular CBs, especially with "lesser" teams who don't have such skillful defenders, I just preferred the extra creativeness for my Madrid defenders by keeping them as BPDs.

And the sky is the limit as to how it could be modified . For some (perhaps all!) teams it may be best to stick to seanhrfc's original; perhaps 2 trequartistas instead of AMCs would work; perhaps two wide Inside Forwards would be better for you; perhaps moving the AP back to central midfield and played as a DLP might be better; perhaps having just attacking players in midfield / on the wings would be better without any striker?

There are almost endless possibilities so try things out and let us know .

 

[donchen]

Nice work.

I realised a lot of people creating new tactics for FM13 don't really fancy having wingers.