Brobs17 vs Goal Galore vs Zero Sea vs Il Devasto results INSIDE !!!ALL-ROUND TACTIC

[Baelrog]

Dear readers,

(FOR THE OVERALL RESULTS, SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE !!!)
(FOR THE OVERALL RESULTS, SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE !!!)


In my search for the "ultimate" all-round tactic (All-round as in good for top-medium and low end teams) i've been SIMULATING with different teams the tactics below all in the same circumstances, which are:

-standard 11.3 team (no players, staff bought)
-no tactical changes made, only the tactic implemented from the creator's.
-no players scheduled for trainings etc.
-each club, same staff-member that picked the players

The tactics i've tested are one of the most populair tactics on these forums.

-Zero Sea's Fairyland http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2011-tactics-training/54136-%5Bfootball-manager-2011-3%5Dzero-seas-fairyland-gorgeous-let-weak-teams-play-like-strong-teams.html

-Brobs 17 Ultimate 11.3 http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...ining/70681-brobs17-ultimate-11-3-tactic.html

- Koflok's Goals Galore v5. http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...aining/51246-kofloks-goals-galore-2011-a.html

- Satorox' Il Devasto http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/football-manager-2011-tactics-training/60554-4-2-2-2-il-devasto.html
(yes satorox i know you dont want ur tactic tested on 11.3 but the feedback on your topic was so positive, i took it with me)

Given the circumstances for all the tactics are the same ( same team, same staff-member that choose the players, holiday mode)
I believe this is a FAIR method to test these tactics. If you however do not believe in testing tactics with holiday mode (i agree the results are lower then normal) then look no further and dont waste your time.

Also i did not include any screens, cause it were just too much to put in this topic, i guess you just have to believe my results.

Now lets move on to the results shall we (FOR THE OVERALL RESULTS, SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE !!!)

First team played with all the tactics is a -Borussia Dortmund- Prognosed 7th in the bundes liga and play euro cup:

Il devasto
League:
End position 12th
Played:34 won:11 draw:5 loss:18
Goals scored: 44 Goals conceded:53 Goals difference: -9
League points:38
German Cup: 1st/winner
Europe: ended in the group fase eurocup


Zero Sea
League:
End position: 2nd
Played:34 won:19 draw:10 loss:5
Goals scored: 62 Goals conceded: 31 Goals difference: +31
League points:67
German Cup: ended 2nd round
Europe: ended in the 1st knockout round


Brobs17 Ultimate
League:
End position 5th
Played:34 won:17 draw:6 loss:11
Goals scored: 54 Goals conceded: 33 Goals difference: +21
League points:57
German Cup: ended in 1st round
Europe: ended in the 1st knockout round


Koflok Galore:
League:
End position 1st/winner
Played:34 won:21 draw:5 loss:8
Goals scored: 57 Goals conceded: 27 Goals difference: +30
League points:68
German Cup: ended in the 3rd round
Europe: ended in the 2nd knockout round



Second team to test the tactics is -Ajax- prognosed 1st in the Eredivisie and play Champions League:

Il devasto
League:
End position 1st /winner
Played:34 won:22 draw:11 loss:1
Goals scored: 59 Goals conceded: 22 Goals difference: +37
League points:77
Dutch Cup: ended in the 4th round
Europe: ended in the first knockout round in the Euro cup


Zero Sea
League:
End position: 1st / winner
Played:34 won:23 draw:8 loss:3
Goals scored: 71 Goals conceded: 25 Goals difference: +46
League points:77
Dutch Cup: 1st / winner
Europe: ended in the Quarter finals Euro Cup


Brobs17 Ultimate
League:
End position: 1st/winner
Played:34 won:25 draw:6 loss:3
Goals scored: 74 Goals conceded: 18 Goals difference: +56
League points:81
Dutch Cup: 1st/winner
Europe: ended in the 1st knockout round Euro Cup


Koflok Galore:
League:
End position: 2nd
Played:34 won:22 draw:6 loss:6
Goals scored: 58 Goals conceded: 20 Goals difference: +38
League points:72
Dutch Cup: ended in the 3rd round
Europe: ended in the 1st knockout round Champions League



Third team to test is -Barcelona- prognosed 1st in the Primera division, and they play champions league:


Il devasto
League:
End position: 2nd
Played:38 won:27 draw:7 loss:4
Goals scored: 98 Goals conceded: 25 Goals difference: +73
League points:91
Spanish Cup: 2nd
Europe: 2nd in the champions league


Zero Sea
League:
End position: 1st / winner
Played:38 won:31 draw:5 loss:2
Goals scored:118 Goals conceded: 26 Goals difference: +92
League points:98
Spanish Cup: ended in the Semi-finals
Europe: ended in the Quarter finals Champions League


Brobs17 Ultimate
League:
End position: 1st/winner
Played:38 won:30 draw:6 loss:2
Goals scored: 106 Goals conceded: 18 Goals difference: +88
League points:96
Spanish Cup: 2nd
Europe: 1st/winner Champions League


Koflok Galore:
League:
End position: 1st/winner
Played:38 won:28 draw:9 loss:1
Goals scored: 92 Goals conceded: 20 Goals difference: +72
League points:93
Spanish: 1st/winner
Europe: 1st/winner Champions league
(only tactic managed to get the Treble in first season)



Fourth tactic to test is with -Napoli- prognosed 7th in the Serie A and they play Euro Cup:

Il devasto
League:
End position 4th
Played:38 won:21 draw:3 loss:14
Goals scored: 62 Goals conceded: 43 Goals difference: +19
League points:66
Italian Cup: ended in the Semi-finals
Europe: ended in the second knockout match Euro Cup


Zero Sea
League:
End position: 5th
Played:38 won:17 draw:11 loss:10
Goals scored: 67 Goals conceded: 52 Goals difference: +15
League points:62
Italian Cup: ended in the 1st round
Europe: ended in the 4th qualification round


Brobs17 Ultimate
League:
End position: 3rd
Played:38 won:20 draw:11 loss:7
Goals scored: 62 Goals conceded: 30 Goals difference: +32
League points:71
Italian Cup: 1st/winner
Europe: ended in the 1st knockout round Euro Cup


Koflok Galore:
League:
End position: 6th
Played:38 won:16 draw:12 loss:10
Goals scored: 52 Goals conceded: 39 Goals difference: +13
League points:60
Italian Cup: 1st/winner
Europe: ended in the 4th qualification round Euro Cup






Wrapping this up for tonight,
As you can see all the tactics are doing their job well, some tactics perform overall better then other but here are some overall results from each tactic, you might find it interesting:

(4th place) Il Devasto:
Played: 144 league games
Won: 81
Draw: 26
Loss: 37
Goals scored: 263 conceded:143 Diff: +120
League Points total: 272
Prizes won: 1 cup 1 league
Average League goals per match: 1,83
Average League goals conceded per match: 0,99
Average points per match: 1,89

(3rd place) Goals Galore v5:
Played: 144 league games
Won: 87
Draw: 32
Loss: 25
Goals scored: 259 conceded:106 Diff: +153
League Points total: 293
Prizes won: 2 cup 2 league 1 Champions league
Average League goals per match: 1,80
Average League goals conceded per match: 0,74
Average points per match: 2,03

(2nd place) Zero Sea's Fairyland:
Played: 144 league games
Won: 90
Draw: 34
Loss: 20
Goals scored: 318 conceded:134 Diff: +184
League Points total: 304
Prizes won: 1 cup 2 league
Average League goals per match: 2,21
Average League goals conceded per match: 0,93
Average points per match: 2,11

(1st place) Brob17 Ultimate 11.3:
Played: 144 league games
Won: 92
Draw: 29
Loss: 23
Goals scored: 296 conceded:99 Diff: +194
League Points total: 305
Prizes won: 2 cup 2 league 1 champions league
Average League goals per match: 2,10
Average League goals conceded per match: 0,69
Average points per match: 2,12


TL : DR

All these results were made while the game simulates the tactics during holiday mode. Each and every tactic result is therefore LESS then if you would normally manage that team, buying new players, training people, etc.
But because all the circumstances for each tactic were the same i think you can compare the tactics to each other.

So it seems that overall the best all-round tactic is Brobs17 Ultimate 11.3 Might not score the most goals (that price goes to Zero Sea Fairyland) but conceding the least and getting the most points / prizes.





--edit--

Will add some lower end teams later this week and some LLM teams aswell !

 

[Sid]

Good analysis, you made it as fair as possible although it's hard to see which is the best as some did better with some teams than others

 

[staviros]

Excellent analysis.......they're all great tactics......I'm using brobs at the moment......but tried them all.

 

[Zero Sea]

Testing a tactic using holiday mode is NOT accurate, because:
1. The calculation of holiday mode and 3D ME are different, some tactic are strong in 3D ME and weak in holiday mode; and some are strong in holiday mode and weak in 3D ME.
2. Due to injury of players

Therefore i suggest that,
1. Take a single match to test, in 3D mode, every tactic using save/load test for 5-10 time
2. Corner setting can set the same for all the tactics you want to test for
3. Team talk leave it for Asst. Manager
4. Unless there are players injury, otherwise do not change/sub players
5.Use FMRTE to change the tactic tp 100% fluid for all tactic you want to test for
6. Calculate the result

 

[Germaniac]

1. The calculation of holiday mode and 3D ME are different, some tactic are strong in 3D ME and weak in holiday mode; and some are strong in holiday mode and weak in 3D ME.

When I use my tactic on holiday mode I never loss, I beat Barcelona 2-1 on first try, then Liverpool 3-0 and Man. City 4-1, but when I use it on 3D mode, I get big loss

 

[loxz]

Il devasto is for 11.2 pacht

 

[SS19]

Testing a tactic using holiday mode is NOT accurate, because:
1. The calculation of holiday mode and 3D ME are different, some tactic are strong in 3D ME and weak in holiday mode; and some are strong in holiday mode and weak in 3D ME.

You have heard that from where? Prove that, I don't think that SI people really are that stupid.

 

[Baelrog]

Testing a tactic using holiday mode is NOT accurate, because:
1. The calculation of holiday mode and 3D ME are different, some tactic are strong in 3D ME and weak in holiday mode; and some are strong in holiday mode and weak in 3D ME.
2. Due to injury of players

Therefore i suggest that,
1. Take a single match to test, in 3D mode, every tactic using save/load test for 5-10 time
2. Corner setting can set the same for all the tactics you want to test for
3. Team talk leave it for Asst. Manager
4. Unless there are players injury, otherwise do not change/sub players
5.Use FMRTE to change the tactic tp 100% fluid for all tactic you want to test for
6. Calculate the result

Thanks for your reply Zero Sea.

I totally agree with you that your way to test tactics works great. But this topic isnt about testing the tactics. The tactics have been tested alot on your own threads and proven succesfully already.
This thread is about comparing the tactics to each other under the same circumstances.

Il devasto is for 11.2 pacht

I already said the same on the top of the page, but the results with Il devasto on 11.3 from alot of people were so positive in his own thread, i decided to use this tactic aswell

When I use my tactic on holiday mode I never loss, I beat Barcelona 2-1 on first try, then Liverpool 3-0 and Man. City 4-1, but when I use it on 3D mode, I get big loss

Seems you met Mr. Luck




Small sneak preview for upcomming update: Been testing with a low prognosed team in the french league.
With 2 tactics the holiday manager got sacked. And 1 tactic ended on the 7th place wich is just incredible.

 

[DoItNow]

This wouldn't stop me using or make me use a tactic tbh. As buying certain players for the different tactics the team you pick team talks etc. can make a huge difference.

Im fairly sure as well I've read that the assistant may alter the tactic in certain games. Hardly fair in judging one thats a plug and play.

 

[Baelrog]

This wouldn't stop me using or make me use a tactic tbh. As buying certain players for the different tactics the team you pick team talks etc. can make a huge difference.

Im fairly sure as well I've read that the assistant may alter the tactic in certain games. Hardly fair in judging one thats a plug and play.

Im not suggesting everybody should play with Brobs17 Ultimate tactic, simply because if you dont have 3 great strikers for example the tactic doesnt perform optimal. And if you happen to have 2 good strikers and some wingers then simply take Zero Sea.

I decided to make this thread because, i have lack of knowledge to create my own tactic, therefore i have to use tactics created by others. And since i cannot ever choose what a good tactic is, i decided to compare them to each other. And this thread is for the people who like me cant ever choose between those great tactics.
And with certain players, teamtalks etc the results would only be better right? So you can safely use one of the tactics above you like the results with or suit your team.

Im not sure about the assistent manager changing the tactic during holiday mode, i wouldnt know how that can be tested ever (since your on holiday) but you can check the box that says "keep the current tactic". Which i obviously done in all my simulations.

 

[kingrocky]

Maybe add jp woodys high scoring tactic in? and maybe eds little n large 442 vairient ?

 

[mibsweden]

It would be awesome if you would add the latest Mr Hough tactics to your tests.

 

[Baelrog]

Maybe add jp woodys high scoring tactic in? and maybe eds little n large 442 vairient ?

I actually simulated in the beginning with Eds little n large 442 at the same time with the others, but the results were quite worse compared to the other 4 tactics above, so i quit simulating it.

It would be awesome if you would add the latest Mr Hough tactics to your tests.

Ill run it a season with dortmund and ajax or so and see if the results are similar like the other tactics, then i might add it yea.

 

[mibsweden]

Thank you for all your work, this is really awesome!

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

This post really inspired me, so I am at the moment doing a Dortmund run with Mr Hough's 3 Pedigrees tactic. Just for the **** of it

---------- Post added at 03:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:41 PM ----------

Ok, my results with Mr Hough's 3 Pedigrees tactic (Dortmund):

League:
End position 3rd
Played:34 won:19 draw:7 loss:8
Goals scored: 66 Goals conceded:37 Goals difference: +29
League points:64
Dutch Cup: Knocked out in the 2nd round
Europe: Knocked out in 1st knockout round

(With Ajax)

League:
End position 1st
Played:34 won:21 draw:7 loss:6
Goals scored: 63 Goals conceded:26 Goals difference: +37
League points:70
German Cup: Knocked out in the 2nd round
Europe: Reached the final and lost

(With Barcelona)

League:
End position 1st
Played:38 won:29 draw:5 loss:4
Goals scored: 93 Goals conceded:18 Goals difference: +75
League points:92
Spanish Cup: Won the Spanish cup
Europe: Knocked out in the 1st knockout round

(With Napoli)

League:
End position: 1st
Played:38 won:26 draw:8 loss:4
Goals scored: 79 Goals conceded: 30 Goals difference: +49
League points:86
Italian Cup: Knocked out in the 1st round
Europe: Knocked out in the semi final

Totals for Mr Hough's Pilederiver:

Played: 144 league games
Won: 95
Draw: 27
Loss: 22
Goals scored: 301 conceded:111 Diff: +190
League Points total: 312
Prizes won: 1 cup, 3 leagues
Average League goals per match: 2,09
Average League goals conceded per match: 0,77
Average points per match: 2,17

 

[tflejszman]

Is this on holiday mode or you played this by yourself?

 

[mibsweden]

Is this on holiday mode or you played this by yourself?

To be absolutely sure they are judged in the same way as the OP's comparisons, I have used the same method he describes in the OP.

 

[masahirosama_fm]

hi Baelrog nice idea to compare the tactic, realy awesome!!

and I have a suggestion, what if the test is done by comparing teams with different class from each league
eg EPL comparing using top, med, and low team.Then the results are divided by the league, the taste parameter is less precise when comparing results between different league, like EPL n Serie A, because every league has a different atmosphere of competition so I think you can not just add up all such results like that

--just my suggestion--

btw

It would be awesome if you would add the latest Mr Hough tactics to your tests.

where can i get that mibsweden?

 

[I7IDanny]

Really good analysis mate, I'm currently using Il Devasto as Inter, won the treble in my first season with it, so I suppose I'm a bit biased toward it haha.

Might have to try out a couple of the others, though.

 

[Baelrog]

Thank you for all your work, this is really awesome!

---------- Post added at 01:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:49 AM ----------

This post really inspired me, so I am at the moment doing a Dortmund run with Mr Hough's 3 Pedigrees tactic. Just for the **** of it

..results..

The only difference between your simulation and mine might be the person that selected the squad. You might have put some1 else up to make the squad, therefor have other players selected then the way i would have with my plays.
And therefor better or less results and abit more ineffective to compare.

hi Baelrog nice idea to compare the tactic, realy awesome!!

and I have a suggestion, what if the test is done by comparing teams with different class from each league
eg EPL comparing using top, med, and low team.Then the results are divided by the league, the taste parameter is less precise when comparing results between different league, like EPL n Serie A, because every league has a different atmosphere of competition so I think you can not just add up all such results like that

--just my suggestion--

btw

where can i get that mibsweden?

Well it might turn up with different avg numbers but it doesnt matter in the end since the other tactics are tested like this aswell, so you can compare them to each other. (hard to explain, hope you understand )

if you play in league A and play 10 matches with 4 tactics you can compare the results
but you can also compare the tactics if you play play 3 matches with each tactics in two different leagues, it doesnt really matter what league or teams you play, aslong as you do it identical with the other tactics, to compare it to each other.

However the update ill post within next week with the lower teams / LLM teams ill make a new total result column just for those results.
So you'll have the sub-top - top teams avg results and the lower teams results.



Also just noticed Brobs17 made an update to his tactic and made a whole new thread about it, ill wait and see what people think about it, and how the results are. If it works out great (and im sure it does) ill add it here too.

---------- Post added at 10:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

Hmm Zero sea has his "corner tactic" setup in his tactic and as he stated in his new thread " Zero Sea Unbeatable Corner Tactic Secret Reveal!! " its the corner bug that scores alot of goals with the DC.

So that means if you play your team without holiday mode and setup the corners yourself for the other 3 tactics, expect alot more goals if you use the corner's "bug" Zero Sea mentioned in his new thread.

 

[mibsweden]

Results with Mr Hough's Viper tactic

Dortmund:

League:
End position 4th
Played:34 won:19 draw:4 loss:11
Goals scored: 52 Goals conceded:35 Goals difference: +17
League points:61
German Cup: Knocked out in the 3rd round
Europe: Reached the 1st knockout round