Can English football ever adapt?

[IanC]

I found this whilst searching through Tottenham's news for the day. It's an interesting interview by John Bostick...

“It [England U19 vs Spain] was the hardest game I’ve played, energy-wise. It felt like we were chasing shadows at times. They have probably been brought up playing that way. They played like they were brothers on that pitch. I’ve had some good coaches in my time but the problem with English football is it’s not consistent. Different coaches have different approaches. In Spain it seems every youngster is coached the same way. It’s almost like it’s a belief. Individually we’re not that far behind them but as teams, we are. Something has to change with the coaching. I’m not talking about the professional game, but right at the bottom from the age of six, seven because kids need to know how to play together. Look at the senior England team. Individually, we have the best players in the world but as soon as they come together it’s not the same. I think most of our youth coaches have taken the joy out of football. That is kicked out of us at a young age. Too much pressure is put on kids to go out and win games.”

I used to run a boys football team a few years back and what does not help in this country is the fact that parents are to blame for alot as well. The boys could play well and lose and you would get some parents always looking for reasons to slate the kids because they lost.

 

[Mike.]

we are starting to take steps in the right direction but the steps are too slow, and i fear we will always be playing catchup

 

[Carine]

I used to run a boys football team a few years back and what does not help in this country is the fact that parents are to blame for alot as well. The boys could play well and lose and you would get some parents always looking for reasons to slate the kids because they lost.

I'm currently coaching an under-11s in Ireland. We've only had about 7 or 8 sessions so far, but I've managed to get the better 11 plus 4 other players playing (and understanding) a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 formation. In the two friendlies we've played so far, the team has performed well and run away with it in the first-half. In the second-half we've introduced the weaker players (I'm talking about 9 to 15 changes here through the half) and as a result the team has been pegged back to 4-3 (win) and 6-4 (loss.) Now, I've been told it's all about the kids -- get them playing; get them enjoying their game; and don't leave any player out of the squad (which is good, because this is youth football and they should all be given the chance to improve and enjoy the game.) But, after the loss in the second half, many parents and some club members began slagging the entire game off and moaning about the formation (despite the fact it worked like a dream before the changes.)

They say it's about the kids, but they don't mean it.They want every player to get a game, but they don't really mean it. They want results and it annoys me when they look in my eyes and lie to me.

Personally, I think it's quite an achievement to achieve what we have in 7/8 sessions. A few more and we'll have the whole squad understanding their roles and the benefits / consequences of their actions on the pitch. Both teams we played against in the friendlies played long ball in a 4-4-2. We out played, out passed and out scored them until all the changes were made.

Another note -- which I find absolutely disgusting at this level -- is in the game we lost, the away team played the last twenty minutes with 7 up front and hit long balls from the back to ensure they won the game. By all accounts, this is not an isolated incident either -- no wonder the national side has struggled for so long?

 

[Redrup]

I found this whilst searching through Tottenham's news for the day. It's an interesting interview by John Bostock...

“It [England U19 vs Spain] was the hardest game I’ve played, energy-wise. It felt like we were chasing shadows at times. They have probably been brought up playing that way. They played like they were brothers on that pitch. I’ve had some good coaches in my time but the problem with English football is it’s not consistent. Different coaches have different approaches. In Spain it seems every youngster is coached the same way. It’s almost like it’s a belief. Individually we’re not that far behind them but as teams, we are. Something has to change with the coaching. I’m not talking about the professional game, but right at the bottom from the age of six, seven because kids need to know how to play together. Look at the senior England team. Individually, we have the best players in the world but as soon as they come together it’s not the same. I think most of our youth coaches have taken the joy out of football. That is kicked out of us at a young age. Too much pressure is put on kids to go out and win games.”

Very interesting find - and very true. The inconsistency to coaching styles is a nuisance when it comes to crafting a national team with good coherence of each others movement on the pitch.

 

[*Jones*]

I've recently started playing pub football, and i have to say; i'm enjoying it a lot more than i ever enjoyed junior football (and i'm only 17)...

I'm intrigued though as to how bad the youth of today are coached, when the new school year starts, i'm hopefully going into one of my local schools to help coach the year 6 football team and i'm fascinated to see what the coaches place the emphasis on; the physical side of the game, or the technical side...

 

[Mike.]

Another note -- which I find absolutely disgusting at this level -- is in the game we lost, the away team played the last twenty minutes with 7 up front and hit long balls from the back to ensure they won the game. By all accounts, this is not an isolated incident either -- no wonder the national side has struggled for so long?

that is shambolic, seriously what is the point then?

 

[Scott]

I'm currently coaching an under-11s in Ireland. We've only had about 7 or 8 sessions so far, but I've managed to get the better 11 plus 4 other players playing (and understanding) a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 formation. In the two friendlies we've played so far, the team has performed well and run away with it in the first-half. In the second-half we've introduced the weaker players (I'm talking about 9 to 15 changes here through the half) and as a result the team has been pegged back to 4-3 (win) and 6-4 (loss.) Now, I've been told it's all about the kids -- get them playing; get them enjoying their game; and don't leave any player out of the squad (which is good, because this is youth football and they should all be given the chance to improve and enjoy the game.) But, after the loss in the second half, many parents and some club members began slagging the entire game off and moaning about the formation (despite the fact it worked like a dream before the changes.)

They say it's about the kids, but they don't mean it.They want every player to get a game, but they don't really mean it. They want results and it annoys me when they look in my eyes and lie to me.

Personally, I think it's quite an achievement to achieve what we have in 7/8 sessions. A few more and we'll have the whole squad understanding their roles and the benefits / consequences of their actions on the pitch. Both teams we played against in the friendlies played long ball in a 4-4-2. We out played, out passed and out scored them until all the changes were made.

I have that in Cricket, I Manage/coach an u11s and u15s side, as well as player coach an academy side( 6 u17s and 5 18yr olds) I try to give everyone a game, as instructed on my coaching course. So someone particualry not very good at bowling will bat higher then normal ect ect. But now i have the parents of the stronger players saying, they have to review whether staying at the club as we have won much at u11s and u15s level. I think **** off. At academy level we kick ****, and i throughly beileve it is because everyone in the team, can now bat or bowl, due to being given the chance to.

 

[Carine]

that is shambolic, seriously what is the point then?

The DOF at the club I'm at was at this game and he told me I'd have to get used to this kind of reaction from opposition managers. He said that many of the managers (at this level) that he knows use the youth football as 'something to brag about over a pint,' and also, after I questioned the point of it all, he added, 'If they get two or three good seasons out of a player and the team and win a few trophies then they don't give a f*** what happens to the players after that.' They're the youth manager, not the senior manager.

If you want to try and change things you'll find it really is a battlefield out there, lol. But it's a battle I'm fully prepared to take on. If I help one player reach his goals and potential, it'll be a job well done.

 

[Lee]

Another note -- which I find absolutely disgusting at this level -- is in the game we lost, the away team played the last twenty minutes with 7 up front and hit long balls from the back to ensure they won the game. By all accounts, this is not an isolated incident either -- no wonder the national side has struggled for so long?

What do you expect from little kids playing 11 a side? Probably on a full-size pitch and with goals to big for them no doubt.

 

[Carine]

What do you expect from little kids playing 11 a side? Probably on a full-size pitch and with goals to big for them no doubt.

Yes it is, but that's a argument in itself.

My point is the focus of the coach / manager, not the kids themselves.

 

[snooloui]

I think one of the problems is that many 'youth coaches' are just parents who are trying to get the success they dreamed of when they were young. Obviously, this is not true at professional levels, but in Sunday football, it's definetely true.

 

[Carine]

I think one of the problems is that many 'youth coaches' are just parents who are trying to get the success they dreamed of when they were young. Obviously, this is not true at professional levels, but in Sunday football, it's definetely true.

No doubt about it -- this a major issue. I do believe some clubs are banning parents from managing their own child(s) team(s), which is a good step. If parents want to help, take a different age-group, it's better for everyone that way.

Obviously, there are some great, unbiased parents too. Don't want to paint everyone with the same brush

 

[Ccllnply]

I'm currently coaching an under-11s in Ireland. We've only had about 7 or 8 sessions so far, but I've managed to get the better 11 plus 4 other players playing (and understanding) a 4-5-1 / 4-3-3 formation. In the two friendlies we've played so far, the team has performed well and run away with it in the first-half. In the second-half we've introduced the weaker players (I'm talking about 9 to 15 changes here through the half) and as a result the team has been pegged back to 4-3 (win) and 6-4 (loss.) Now, I've been told it's all about the kids -- get them playing; get them enjoying their game; and don't leave any player out of the squad (which is good, because this is youth football and they should all be given the chance to improve and enjoy the game.) But, after the loss in the second half, many parents and some club members began slagging the entire game off and moaning about the formation (despite the fact it worked like a dream before the changes.)

They say it's about the kids, but they don't mean it.They want every player to get a game, but they don't really mean it. They want results and it annoys me when they look in my eyes and lie to me.

Personally, I think it's quite an achievement to achieve what we have in 7/8 sessions. A few more and we'll have the whole squad understanding their roles and the benefits / consequences of their actions on the pitch. Both teams we played against in the friendlies played long ball in a 4-4-2. We out played, out passed and out scored them until all the changes were made.

Another note -- which I find absolutely disgusting at this level -- is in the game we lost, the away team played the last twenty minutes with 7 up front and hit long balls from the back to ensure they won the game. By all accounts, this is not an isolated incident either -- no wonder the national side has struggled for so long?

Totally agree mate.

I'm lucky enough to have a coach now who doesn't think it's all about him and actually wants us to play technical football. He's only been the coach for 4 matches and so far we've got hammered in 2 and won 2. And you know what? I'm enjoying my football more than ever. We let in 15 goals in two games because of missing players and injuries but I enjoyed my football because we were passing the ball around and trying to play football.

I'm only 16 and know first hand how much bullshit goes on in sport in the UK and Ireland.

When I was 14 our coach pulled our team out of the league and got rid of it completely because we lost a match 6-0.

Also, when I was 14, I changed GAA clubs because my coach gave out to me and then started insulting me infront of the team because I didn't go training one night and did homework instead.

Youth development doesn't even come into it, it's all about winning things. In 6 years of playing soccer, I've never once felt that a coach was trying to develop my skill other than the coach I current have. I've played for two clubs in my life and trying to develop our skill beyond winning the league, never came into it. I didn't learn any sort of technical or mental awareness until the age of 15, and not because I learned it from a coach, because I taught it to myself from watching TV.

As far as I'm concerned, this:

I think one of the problems is that many 'youth coaches' are just parents who are trying to get the success they dreamed of when they were young. Obviously, this is not true at professional levels, but in Sunday football, it's definetely true.

: is the problem. Any idiot can come along and manage a underage team in the UK and Ireland. After all, who cares about Youth development when you can win the under 12's 2nd division?

 

[IanC]

The DOF at the club I'm at was at this game and he told me I'd have to get used to this kind of reaction from opposition managers. He said that many of the managers (at this level) that he knows use the youth football as 'something to brag about over a pint,' and also, after I questioned the point of it all, he added, 'If they get two or three good seasons out of a player and the team and win a few trophies then they don't give a f*** what happens to the players after that.' They're the youth manager, not the senior manager.

If you want to try and change things you'll find it really is a battlefield out there, lol. But it's a battle I'm fully prepared to take on. If I help one player reach his goals and potential, it'll be a job well done.

Its good to see someone trying to do the right thing. Hope it goes well for you and your team.

It is difficult. I remember on one occasion that we had finished 4th in the league of under 13's and made a final of one of the cups. We lost the final and two days later probably the 2 best players I had at the time their parents contacted me and said that they wont be playing for my team again as wanted them to win trophies and joined the team that won the cup as they reckoned that they had more chance of being spotted if they were winning competitions. Result was a few years later both the boys had lost interest in the game. I believe this was down to the parents pushing them too hard to win at that age and not letting them to just enjoy and learn the game.

 

[CJACKO11]

i think i said this on a similar thread english football cant change until there is a major change at the fa. you go around the world and look at their FA's and it is full of former players/presidants etc people who know the game. but the english fa has trevor brooking and a bunch of jumped up old geezers in suits.

 

[Carine]

Trevor Brooking is doing the best he can. The others should take a good look at themselves.

 

[Mike.]

i think i said this on a similar thread english football cant change until there is a major change at the fa. you go around the world and look at their FA's and it is full of former players/presidants etc people who know the game. but the english fa has trevor brooking and a bunch of jumped up old geezers in suits.

trevor brooking is the one man actually doing somethng, but everything else, thats true. but the problems is also at the root of the game, and in the very mentality of our society, with win at all costs fans and parents

 

[CJACKO11]

Trevor Brooking is doing the best he can. The others should take a good look at themselves.

sorry i just read my post back and it looked as if i was slating brooking but i will update he is doing a sensational job but we need more trevor brookings.

---------- Post added at 09:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

trevor brooking is the one man actually doing somethng, but everything else, thats true. but the problems is also at the root of the game, and in the very mentality of our society, with win at all costs fans and parents

agreed