Debacle

Sure, I don't mind taking a look. Upload the PKM and I'll see when I can give it a look.
 
Have a couple days off of work so I'll watch it and make some notes.
 
I took a quick look, not a proper one yet. Just realized the PMK doesn't allow me to see any tactical settings. Mind posting the basics - shape and mentality, roles & duties, and any TIs?

First few things I spotted - it looks like they are overrunning you in midfield. You are two against three and that creates a constant free man. You can't really defend in numbers, because you are automatically leaving space. You can't press as effectively as possible, as they will have passing options, and the press leaves bigger gaps.

Saw a few attacks that petered out because there just weren't many passing options. A player would advance past midfield and have a single option available, which would be predictably cut out by the defenders. Ball is turned over. A couple of the times, the available passing option wasn't that close - it didn't require an outright "long" pass, but a longer one - which gives the defender more time to react and increases the chances of a mishit.
 
Bigpapa42 said:
I took a quick look, not a proper one yet. Just realized the PMK doesn't allow me to see any tactical settings. Mind posting the basics - shape and mentality, roles & duties, and any TIs?

First few things I spotted - it looks like they are overrunning you in midfield. You are two against three and that creates a constant free man. You can't really defend in numbers, because you are automatically leaving space. You can't press as effectively as possible, as they will have passing options, and the press leaves bigger gaps.

Saw a few attacks that petered out because there just weren't many passing options. A player would advance past midfield and have a single option available, which would be predictably cut out by the defenders. Ball is turned over. A couple of the times, the available passing option wasn't that close - it didn't require an outright "long" pass, but a longer one - which gives the defender more time to react and increases the chances of a mishit.
Click to expand...

442: gk
fb(su) cb cb fb(at)
w(at) cm(su) cm(de) wp(su)
dlf(su) af(at)

Standard flexible No TI no PI
IIRC I tweaked my def line and mentality during the match.

Fact is I struggle to realize what's happening on the pitch and how to fix it.For instance, my results improved a lot because you told me about width and my wp moving narrower. When a new problem arises I can't identify it or I don't know how to fix it.
I need to be told what exactly is wrong and how to fix it. Every time. Otherwise my team at some point collapses and anything I try fails. I lack the ability or intelligence to understand the game. it's very frustrating.
 
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So basically right in the middle. The lack of a specific "direction" could be part of the problem. You aren't being defensive and you aren't being attacking. Neutral isn't necessarily bad, but it might explain why the players aren't being proactive like you want to see - you aren't really asking them do.

A thought I'll post since I haven't watched it properly yet.... always keep the formation in mind. I don't like telling someone they should use a different formation. Every formation has its strengths and weaknesses. you need to keep those in mind when setting up tactically. Someone moving a player or two but having them do similar can make a big difference.

The strength of a 4-4-2 is that is provides very even pitch coverage. But its strength is always its weakness - because you have players spread out, you don't have any groupings. You won't have numerical superiority anywhere, unless you face a narrow formation and the wide players give you an advantage there, but you can be outnumbers against other formations. Like you are in the middle here.

Think I've mentioned this before - you always want to consider what you want to see with a given tactical approach. Much as you must consider the strengths and weaknesses of the particular formation, you also want to think about where the goals will come from and how you will defend. And a basic 4-4-2 creates some natural problems in both those regards. Problems you have to find a way to solve.

One of the most appealing aspects of a 4-4-2 is that you have 2 strikers. That provides some advantages, but you want to consider those advantages and whether they are actually advantages in how you are using them....

A single striker can be isolated - this is true. But whether you have 1 striker or 5, they still need service. Someone needs to get them the ball. They still need support.
They support each other - one can act as the creator, the other the finisher. Or big man, little man. But the ball has to get there
More effective to have two men in the box for a crossing game - absolutely true. But bear in mind that a crossing game is a fairly low percentage approach, especially as the opposition will typically have more players in the box, so you need to find an advantage - whether that's a great crosser, a fast winger (who can create his own space for the cross), a target man who can consistently win those balls, or even a support player coming into the box late. Without creating an advantage for yourself, you can become United under Moyes.
Two players forward for counters - more outlets high up the pitch when you launch a counter. But you aren't playing a counter attacking game
More players for a high press - if you have the right players, this can work. But you aren't using a pressing game, and forwards are often the least effective at pressing unless they are defensive forward types
 
I understand everything you say, theoretically but once the match starts I'm completely unable to identify if my team is taking advantage of my formation or not. I don't what is a passing option. I see what I consider passing options but I don't know if my players (aka the ME) considers it realistic passing options. I don't know why my players don't tackle on overload mentality, max closing down, get stuck in, using 2 bwm, 2 df and 2 dw. They are mere spectators of the match.

I need someone to sit besides me and tell me step by step what's going on. On my own, I can't do anything properly. It's just a neverending story: once things start going wrong, there is no reason why to keep playing, the save is already unplayable. I don't know what happens, why it happens and what can I do.

That's why I say I understand what you mean but once the match starts I don't. I know what a 442 implies and I can perfectly describe how I want my team to play and what I want each of my players to do but once the match starts I don't know if my players are actually doing it orif what I want my players to do is a good idea or not. I don't know if my tactic is wrong or my players have an off day.

I know nothing, so I'm completely lost and start giving shots in the dark. I'm desperate., I want to play this game but nobody in the world can give me the tools to learn on my own. Sure it's my fault but I really want to learn and I can't.

I don't know what to do.
 
To bring this back to something constructive...

In this sucession of screenshots, you can see how:









- My right winger (at) receives the ball.
- He has 1 easy pass to my number 15.
- But he is a winger (dribble more) so decides to dribble the opponent.
- He couldn't go past the defender, so stopped. Now he has no passing options.
- The problem I can see is my n10 (dlf-su) Perica, made a forward run instead of holding a deeper position more available for a pass.
- This has happened previously in the match (many times) so I told my dlf to hold position and my winger less risky passes and pass short.

I don't know what else I can try. It's happening all the time. Through ball to Perica. This is the last thing I want my winger to do. Dribble or simple pass. Never a through ball to Perica who is very slow.

What can I do?
 


Sandro receives the ball. He has at least 3 passing options. He decides to pass the ball to the most difficult option and, on top of that, he misses the pass.
Is this only a bad execution?




Llorente has the ball, with an obvious passing option to my right winger but he decides to pass the ball to nobody.



Tousart has the ball. Plenty of space and time. There is an obvious passing option to my number 20. He passes the ball there but it is intercepted.




Ivan clears the ball which goes in between Boateng and my number 8. While Boateng runs to get the ball my number 8 doesn't move.




Sandro has the ball. Very obvious passing option my number 6 but he decides to dwell on the ball so he is closed down and disposessed.




Verza has the ball. My players give him acres of spaces and ages of time. Nobody presses.







Jonny has the ball with 2 very obvious passing options. He decides to hoof it.


I'm trying to show how my players are constantly choosing the worst option even when the situation is absolutely obvious. Can I do anything to change it?
 
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Please, I need help. I don't know what to do, I only lose. I'll follow any instruction I'm told, I'll do whatever you tell me, but please my team always collapses.

Please, I implore you, I just want to learn.
 
Please... Please.. Somebody help me. I can't play this game...

Please. I don't know what to do. I always lose. I don't know why it happens. I'm sacked in every save.

Please help me.

I can take ANY team an overachieve in the first season or couple of seasons. At some random point my team collapses and anything I try fails. I don't want to overachieve, it's not my goal, I just want to have DECENT results. i don't want to be sacked. I don't want to lose or draw 20 consecutive matches. I just want to play the game with rational success.

Please, I implore you, someone help me.​
 
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View attachment 64458

I've spent all the afternoon trying to find out why my team was totally unable to string 3 passes together. I'm not particularly interested in posession but 30% it's certainly a problem.

Believe me if I say, after 3 hours and having watched the match at least 10 times, I still have no idea why I couldn't keep possession. Yes, I was pressed but what can I do if my players are totally unable to pass the ball to a close teammate? The option was there, the player was completely open. A short simple pass. But the pass is just undescriptably terrible, imposible to control or straight to the stand. Or even worse, despite having an easy safe option, my players decide to hoof the ball no matter what I tell them.

I know people may say it's just a match but this is a clear sign of my team collapsing: imposible to string 3 passes together. If you don't believe me, watch the match.
 
First of all i also applaud the effort and time take to analyze the game in this way,



there are several valid points mentioned here, in the case of Real Madrid you have to remember they are a world class team so beating them is going to be much harder anyway, in saying that set a striker or both to poacher assuming they have the pace and go route one pass in to space and the defenders will pop the ball over the top for players to run on to or your wide players.



I am shocked that there has been no mention as to tactical familiarity, persistently tweaking tactics during the game is a dangerous way to play if you are doing it several times in every match.

training on all three tactics slots with a tactic for stronger, weaker and similar teams and swapping these tactics to adjust for the game would probably be more effective as at the very least your players will trained to play in these styles.

the pre game discussion tells your players that you want them to focus on selected areas or styles of play which sets a base foundation for the team. with no instructions on how to play your effectivly telling the players to please themselves what they do, they settle in to their own little pocket and mentality relative to their idividual style of play.

this method is very easy for the A.I. to pick up on and counter as your base tactic remain constant.

Also when selecting a team in the beginning be realistic in your approach and your expectations, is it avoid relegation, mid table etc. and work on improving over time.

but i definately think you would benefit from having 2 or 3 set tactics that only need slight tweaks as apposed to micro managing every detail, your assistant can help with this.

set the OI's to automatic at th beginning of game.

if the AM tells you losing possession your opponent is high pressing so look to go over the top.
if he tells you to cross more the opponent is sitting back so exploit the flanks and clear to flanks while retaining possession and not pass to space.

obiously these are guidelines and dont have to but in general are a good base point.

against larger teams particularly away from home dont be afraid to play for draw 1 point is still 1 more than nothing and will keep moral higher and improve the dynamics of the team.
 
KevQ339 said:
First of all i also applaud the effort and time take to analyze the game in this way,



there are several valid points mentioned here, in the case of Real Madrid you have to remember they are a world class team so beating them is going to be much harder anyway, in saying that set a striker or both to poacher assuming they have the pace and go route one pass in to space and the defenders will pop the ball over the top for players to run on to or your wide players.



I am shocked that there has been no mention as to tactical familiarity, persistently tweaking tactics during the game is a dangerous way to play if you are doing it several times in every match.

training on all three tactics slots with a tactic for stronger, weaker and similar teams and swapping these tactics to adjust for the game would probably be more effective as at the very least your players will trained to play in these styles.

the pre game discussion tells your players that you want them to focus on selected areas or styles of play which sets a base foundation for the team. with no instructions on how to play your effectivly telling the players to please themselves what they do, they settle in to their own little pocket and mentality relative to their idividual style of play.

this method is very easy for the A.I. to pick up on and counter as your base tactic remain constant.

Also when selecting a team in the beginning be realistic in your approach and your expectations, is it avoid relegation, mid table etc. and work on improving over time.

but i definately think you would benefit from having 2 or 3 set tactics that only need slight tweaks as apposed to micro managing every detail, your assistant can help with this.

set the OI's to automatic at th beginning of game.

if the AM tells you losing possession your opponent is high pressing so look to go over the top.
if he tells you to cross more the opponent is sitting back so exploit the flanks and clear to flanks while retaining possession and not pass to space.

obiously these are guidelines and dont have to but in general are a good base point.

against larger teams particularly away from home dont be afraid to play for draw 1 point is still 1 more than nothing and will keep moral higher and improve the dynamics of the team.
Click to expand...

Thanks for taking your time, I really appreciate it, specially after being completely ignored who knows why.
Fact is I've given up. I've tried for more tan 2 years and I'm exactly at the same point tan day 1. I start well and at some random moment of the sabe my team collapses and literally anything I try fails.
It's time to face the truth: the game is too difficult for me I can't play it anymore.

Thanks again for your time.
 
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