Defending Difficulties - Stopper/Cover

[maxchaplin55]

I am having what I consider to be a good season with Aston Villa in my 5th season. I am having no trouble scoring - I watch a lot of games on full match, and at the moment am struggling to be consistent throughout the whole season. I will post my tactic and team instructions along with my defence and player instructions.

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As you can see I try to use a Stopper/Cover partnership to work, with a high defensive line. What can often be the problem, is I will create many chances, and most of the time I will take more of them than the opposition. However, occasionally I have an off day and only score 1 or 2, and at random points in the game the other team will fashion out a chance out of nowhere - what I have notice in recent games is that my stopper will aggressively close down, and the opposition will simply pass it round him and exploit the space left behind him. The combination works really well 90% of the game but will lapse at certain points, which in the prem, you cannot afford to do. I'm really keen to get the Stopper Cover to work, although may think my defenders may be suited to a Defend/Defend.

Here are my Player's Attributes and their team instructions. (From left to right)
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So, I know my tactic is very offensive at a 4-2-4. However, both wide men are on support and do come back to defend on occasion. Also, my defence's ratings are high, other than the stopper (Casierra) - he doesn't have great aggression or bravery, and am starting to think whether he is best man for the job. Because I really like both Mikinac and Casierra, i have also been considering just putting them both on Defend, but to be honest I haven't found a way to get the Defend combo to work at all on this FM, especially with only two central midfielders.

I have a few things in mind to trial and error, but I am approaching the business end of the season and could really do with any ideas on things I've missed, or any tweak you think may change things.

Thanks guys.

 

[WJ]

So it's a 4-2-4, with a DMCL and MCR.

Your stopper will be covering the gap in front of him left by the MCR. When they do pass it around the stopper, is it because a midfielder is in that gap and has plenty of time to decide what he wants to do before the Stopper gets to him? Also, is it only happening against a certain formation?


Basically, are there any noticeable patterns to this issue?

 

[maxchaplin55]

So it's a 4-2-4, with a DMCL and MCR.

Your stopper will be covering the gap in front of him left by the MCR. When they do pass it around the stopper, is it because a midfielder is in that gap and has plenty of time to decide what he wants to do before the Stopper gets to him? Also, is it only happening against a certain formation?


Basically, are there any noticeable patterns to this issue?

At times a player will run at the Cover CD and another attacker will run past and a through ball will set him on a 1 on 1 with the GK as the Stopper doesn't get over quick enough - Ideally the Coverer would drop immediately as the Stopper comes across, instead of immediately confronting the attacker.

Also if in a period in the game I am being forced to defend, my defensive line is obvious fairly deep - this then enables a runner to run between the central defenders, and what happens is the stopper will focus on where the ball is being played from, while the coverer will cover his side and not the stoppers, so when the ball is being played between the DR and DCR, the attacker has time to quickly touch and shoot inside the box before the coverer has time to get over.

The stopper doesn't tend to get caught out due to the RCM being further forward (that i've noticed), but since it makes sense I may try with two CMs as my RCM cannot play deeper. - this is my usual defensive positioning when defending a counter.
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I cant spot any correlation between formations faced against and this issue.

 

[WJ]

How is a striker allowed to run at your Cover when there's a DMCL who should pick up strikers who drop deep?

Can you upload a pkm of a problem match and confirm the tactical setup for the match?

 

[maxchaplin55]

How is a striker allowed to run at your Cover when there's a DMCL who should pick up strikers who drop deep?

Can you upload a pkm of a problem match and confirm the tactical setup for the match?

No idea what a pkm is haha but sure, you'll have to tell me what to do. The problem match has an eg of the striker running at cover.

 

[WJ]

Click on any previously played fixture to go to the match. The click on Save Game. It creates a tiny .pkm file which will alow others to view the match in their FM. It's only a match viewer so the exact tactical setup won't be known.

 

[maxchaplin55]

Click on any previously played fixture to go to the match. The click on Save Game. It creates a tiny .pkm file which will alow others to view the match in their FM. It's only a match viewer so the exact tactical setup won't be known.

It was a recent match so will be exactly the same set up as original post.

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So I have attempted to post pkm, if it doesn't work let me know how to actually upload it pls.

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Since, I have changed the full backs to sit narrower, in an attempt to close the gaps of balls being played through either side of the CBs. I have kept the shape the same, but changed the winger to attack, in an attempt to push the opposition fullback back, and maybe even force their winger back aswell. Also now have two CF up top, one S one A. Played one game against Arsenal and won 3-0 and best performance of season, so I'll let you know if it stays this way.

 

[WJ]

Should be fine. Do you have a screenshot of the tactic itself? If it's meant to be the first 2 attachments, they're not working.

 

[maxchaplin55]

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What I changed is CFs CFa Wa. Slightly Higher, balanced width, full backs sit narrower and close down much less.

However, whatever worked against Arsenal, has not worked against Chelsea - sometimes the central defenders just seem to forget they're playing football - the back four will be in great position with cover from midfielder, the opposition will have the ball on our left flank, and the RCB will randomly run literally on top of the LCB and leave acres behind him in the box, even though he's not actually closed anyone down.

 

[WJ]

Okay, I watched the match without knowing the tactics, but where in that match was the issue? For the most part, the DM protected the Cover defender quite well and the Stopper did a great job of jumping in and winning the ball.

For the most part, Shakhtar struggled with their defensive setup. The striker was isolated for long periods and only really found space in front of the Stopper, but was quickly stopped.

 

[maxchaplin55]

Okay, I watched the match without knowing the tactics, but where in that match was the issue? For the most part, the DM protected the Cover defender quite well and the Stopper did a great job of jumping in and winning the ball.

For the most part, Shakhtar struggled with their defensive setup. The striker was isolated for long periods and only really found space in front of the Stopper, but was quickly stopped.

The issue was he amount of half chances/chances created by Shakhtar, I dominated the game but my strikers didn't have a good game and only scored one, and to be honest Shakhtar should've scored loads on the counter.

In that game, 19:40 they go on a counter and my Coverer acts as the Stopper and the Stopper does an awful job at covering - they go one on one and hit the bar.

60th min they attack and the moment i mentioned earlier when their left winger plays a ball in between my DR and DCR and the coverer cannot get over quick enough (despite 18 acc 19 pace). They miss a one on one.

64th min they score their goal, now I wouldn't usually mind conceding a cross but this happens a lot, my stopper seems to not know what to do when a cross comes in, usually allowing his forward to get to the ball first etc.

 

[WJ]

The issue was he amount of half chances/chances created by Shakhtar, I dominated the game but my strikers didn't have a good game and only scored one, and to be honest Shakhtar should've scored loads on the counter.

In that game, 19:40 they go on a counter and my Coverer acts as the Stopper and the Stopper does an awful job at covering - they go one on one and hit the bar.

60th min they attack and the moment i mentioned earlier when their left winger plays a ball in between my DR and DCR and the coverer cannot get over quick enough (despite 18 acc 19 pace). They miss a one on one.

64th min they score their goal, now I wouldn't usually mind conceding a cross but this happens a lot, my stopper seems to not know what to do when a cross comes in, usually allowing his forward to get to the ball first etc.

At 19:40, the Cover defender had two attacking players on top of him. When one, right next to him, received the ball, there was nothing else to do BUT attempt to engage him. He cannot be faulted here. The Stopper also cannot really be blamed as he didn't do anything wrong. The Cover defender was simply overloaded 2 v 1. I wonder actually if he tried to step up to play offside, but got it wrong. He was in his own position, so I wouldn't attach blame to him though.

In the 60th minute, nothing happened. I assume you meant the 61st minute? Again though, not much wrong here. The ball is played directly behind the Stopper. It's physically impossible for the Cover to get across that quickly. It has nothing to do with pace. It was just a good move.

In the 65th minute, a goal is scored, but again, it isn't a defensive issue. Your MCR has acres of space behind him, which the striker drops into. That's where the issue is. The stopper didn't do too great on the cross, but the entire move started because the striker found space in that gap.


As a side note; 2 actually: Firstly, you were unlucky not to win here. Secondly, have a look at your setup at throw-ins. You're giving up a few chances because your MCR is also drawn to the thrower, which leaves the player he should be marking, in masses of space. The MR could help out here by either coming more narrow (not sure if possible to assign), or taking the role the MCR has.

 

[WJ]

By the way, and completely off-topic... what are Dosso's attributes like? He's brilliant with the ball at his feet and at full pace.

 

[maxchaplin55]

By the way, and completely off-topic... what are Dosso's attributes like? He's brilliant with the ball at his feet and at full pace.

I like the guy who plays RCM, and he cannot play DM, which is the only reason I've been against putting a DM there, any ideas on how to close that gap? Tempted to try him as a CMd, but feel it may weaken my threat a lot up top.

I will definitely have a look at throw in set up, cannot lie, not something I picked up on at all so thank-you for that.

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Absolute animal isn't he. I've had a lot of luck with finding great regens. Only paid £1.5mil for him, loaned him to Rijeka for a season and he's been first team for 2 seasons now.

 

[maxchaplin55]

Also, don't know if I am being stupid but I can only alter my attacking throw in setup?

 

[WJ]

Also, don't know if I am being stupid but I can only alter my attacking throw in setup?

I hadn't noticed this at all until now! You're right. Drawback of a 4-2-4 that you're so open, I guess.

 

[WJ]

I like the guy who plays RCM, and he cannot play DM, which is the only reason I've been against putting a DM there, any ideas on how to close that gap? Tempted to try him as a CMd, but feel it may weaken my threat a lot up top.

I will definitely have a look at throw in set up, cannot lie, not something I picked up on at all so thank-you for that.

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Absolute animal isn't he. I've had a lot of luck with finding great regens. Only paid £1.5mil for him, loaned him to Rijeka for a season and he's been first team for 2 seasons now.

He is a beast yes!

The problem is that you've created a huge gap by using a DM, which derases the D-line. Why not reduce it more by pushing the D-line up more?

 

[maxchaplin55]

Thought I was going mad! Cheers for your advice though, think I'll stick with it for now, maybe I will try to become more consistent up top, going for attack being the best form of defence. Before that though, might lower my mentalities, maybe the issue.

 

[maxchaplin55]

He is a beast yes!

The problem is that you've created a huge gap by using a DM, which derases the D-line. Why not reduce it more by pushing the D-line up more?

Didn't see this reply - regarding Dosso and many other first team stars - just missed out on Champions League and now want to leave

Oh I didn't think of that, I might try making the DM a CM then? Failing that I will try with a much higher line.

 

[WJ]

Oh I didn't think of that, I might try making the DM a CM then? Failing that I will try with a much higher line.

Either can work. Overall, the defending wasn't all that bad, especially considering this is an attacking 4-2-4, so maybe go with the less drastic of the 2 - the slightly higher line.