Don't make this mistake and don't test tactics this way...

[Will1981]

I get fed up with this having to justify my testing methods to TFF every single patch of every single year but anyway here goes:

I have been testing tactics for FM since FM10 and every year I feel like I improve my testing methods to try and provide the most accurate testing environment I can make.

I have also tested how accurate the "Instant Result Skin (No Match Plan)" is here:
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-16-tactics/355191-holiday-mode-verses-instant-result-verses-simulated-result-verses-playing-game.html
and as you can see testing the same tactic other the exact same 60 game season I scored 122, 125, 134, 137 and 138 points which I feel is a very very good indication of just how accurate my testing results are.

Importantly I would also like to publicly state that I have never once criticised any of TFF's tactics and have used them many times with very good results which I have posted on his relevant threads thus increasing the popularity of his tactics but at every opportunity he gets he feels he needs to criticise my testing methods.

PS. TFF's tactic performed greatly in my latest test finishing in a very good 3rd place in a league where there media prediction of 8th.

Finally I will no longer comment on any of TFF's threads as we will never agree,
I will however to continue testing tactics as I feel it is a valuable resource for the community and I enjoy doing it.

Many thanks for showing your true class once again TFF.

 

[dimakouv]

Just to add a bit more balance to the responses, I'm also fully with Will. I have used a number of tactics in FM over the years, and have always found Will's testing results to most closely resemble my own playing experience. Even though his method has some vulnerabilities, they affect all tactics that he is testing, and have no particular bias against TFF's tactics. Will has also done a number of tests in the past to make sure that his results are not too dominated by randomness. Most importantly, Will has no vested interest in this game because he does not make tactics, which makes his tests more trustworthy than many others.

Of course these tests are never perfect and you shouldn't rely on them too much, particularly with this year's FM where you really need to use the tactics properly and make changes when required. So I always go from my own experience and try to tweak the tactics in any case, but still if a tactic comes out on top in Will's test I will probably give it a go. From my own playing experience this patch TFF's tactics have been about average: given the right players, your team overperforms but not by much. Other tactics for example Franky's on the SI forums and a few others have been much better.

To me it seems like TFF is often overly sensitive about his tactics, which maybe is understandable because he puts so much effort and contributes many constructive things to this forum. But really, this is no excuse, especially for ad-hoc attacks on fellow forum users who also put in a lot of efforts and contribute no less than TFF. TFF's tactics are always near the top of the page on here anyway and people will keep using them regardless of test results, so these efforts to discredit the testing just seem petty and childish.

 

[TotalFootballFan9]

I have also tested how accurate the "Instant Result Skin (No Match Plan)" is here:
http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/share-download-fm-16-tactics/355191-holiday-mode-verses-instant-result-verses-simulated-result-verses-playing-game.html
and as you can see testing the same tactic other the exact same 60 game season I scored 122, 125, 134, 137 and 138 points which I feel is a very very good indication of just how accurate my testing results are.

Will, did you read anything that I wrote in this thread?

I don't see any connection between your testing when you tested how the accurate the "Instant Result" might be and between what this thread about.

Btw, your testing of the Instant Result's accuracy was awesome and it clearly showed how random the result might on a short distance that consists of 50-70 matches but now I'm not sure than you made right conclusion from it.

I get fed up with this having to justify my testing methods to TFF every single patch of every single year but anyway here goes:

Will, when you post a tactic here then you should be ready that anyone might come to your thread and say everything he wishes about your tactic something like that "your tactic is a total **** and it doesn't work at all" even if he might tested it with GK at the striker and with Striker as GK and if you don't ready to accept such thing then you'd better don't post anything here...

You aren't different than any other person that posts something here, we all put hard work in what we do and noone likes to hear any critics about his work but if you've stayed on that patch positing stuff here then be ready to accept some critics, especially, if what you do is evaluate other people work and in order to do that it requires to be very more competent in your area.

P.S. Will, I had no intention to make you stop testing tactics and you have full right to do whatever you want and test the way you want but I also have right to say my opinion about your testing.

P.P.S. Also, I think this forum will lose greatly if it lose FM addicted person like you and I always happy to see you here.

Many thanks for showing your true class once again TFF.

I know that I'm an ******* and I never hide it

love you :wub:

 

[bere23]

Hey mate,

The fact that I haven't uploaded tactics with other TIs/PIs/Formations doesn't mean that I haven't tried them.

Heh, I can say that I've tried all possible Formations/TIs/PIs that only can be imagined in FM16 but I saw that everything else performed weaker than my current tactics so uploading a tactic that's weaker than my current tactics makes no sense to me.

Of course, many times before I thought that there wasn't any better tactic than my currents tactic but the amount of tactics and tweaks that I've uploaded so far proves that I was wrong many times before so right now I can easily be wrong about my current tactics and there might be some better tactics and approaches.

Btw, I'm such person that doesn't care about what formation my tactic has or what TIs/PIs it has, the only thing I care about is it must the most efficient approach to play in the game and the fact that my tactics have wide midfielders it's just because I find they are the most efficient way to play in FM16 and for example, in FM14 I used the strikerless tactic without wide midfielders at all because it worked efficient in FM14.

did you try to make strikerless in fm 2016?i would love to see u make once

 

[drhay53]

FWIW, I thought TFF made great suggestions on ways to improve Will's testing to account for the AI's horrible, horrible player selection logic, however, I understand that the suggestion adds work to the tester and that there is a history here.

 

[Jesseh]

I agree that TFF Tactic Testing League may favour quick picking, but honestly I never managed to achieve results close to the ones TFF posts when testing using the very same scenario. I usually get way less points than expected and I don't know why.

I'm now inclined to try a bit on Will's League, but I've always tested tactics on TFF's Tactic Testing League and the results there usually indicated the best tactics on a real game.

 

[magmus]

I find it rather funny that all this started just because TFF is annoyed for no reason that his tactic is not tip top in someone's testing league. Talk about being full of yourself.

 

[Tacticseeker]

I find it rather funny that all this started just because TFF is annoyed for no reason that his tactic is not tip top in someone's testing league. Talk about being full of yourself.

you do realize it's a misrepresentation of his work?

maybe you've never had anything to be proud of so you wouldn't understand, TFF is probably the most dedicated person on this forum to making efficient tactics/figuring out how the programming of the ME/game works to better inform everyone

he's put hundreds if not thousands of hours in to his work and posts to help everyone, to gain nothing out of it other than the satisfaction/recognition of his good work

i don't know him personally but i appreciate the effort he puts in so we can all enjoy and understand the game more

also, kudos to Will for his effort, it's not his fault that the game has limitations which would be hard for him to control to give accurate methods of testing, but he also deserves some praise for the work and effort he puts in

 

[dginola]

TFF is making a legitimate argument though, quick pick should not be use in the testing. Most players never use it in actual play too.

 

[magmus]

you do realize it's a misrepresentation of his work?

maybe you've never had anything to be proud of so you wouldn't understand, TFF is probably the most dedicated person on this forum to making efficient tactics/figuring out how the programming of the ME/game works to better inform everyone

he's put hundreds if not thousands of hours in to his work and posts to help everyone, to gain nothing out of it other than the satisfaction/recognition of his good work

i don't know him personally but i appreciate the effort he puts in so we can all enjoy and understand the game more

also, kudos to Will for his effort, it's not his fault that the game has limitations which would be hard for him to control to give accurate methods of testing, but he also deserves some praise for the work and effort he puts in

"Misrepresentation of his work" - because yes, tactics of which still get applauded are suddenly let down by someone else's testing league, and apparently all his work and what everyone else has said about it has been undone.

No need for the bitter remark, you are only displaying your insecurities.

 

[Chrissy Ross]

This is ******* hilarious.

It's a game. An actual game. Way and I mean way too much time and effort goes into these tactics, testing leagues etc.

I realised this once I started drinking again, heavily. Gave me perspective.

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

My personal 2cents. A tactic testing league is a flawed answer to a flawed question.

There is no such things as the perfect tactic since every team is literally different. What works for one will not work for another. A subtle tweet to a formation can transform a side while the same can destroy one. The players are far more important than the tactic and the balance of the squad and the managers work of keeping the moral happy.

A tactic is the least important part of a team so winning a tactic testing league means literally nothing.

 

[Tacticseeker]

"Misrepresentation of his work" - because yes, tactics of which still get applauded are suddenly let down by someone else's testing league, and apparently all his work and what everyone else has said about it has been undone.

No need for the bitter remark, you are only displaying your insecurities.

the testing league displays results of the tactics, which represent the tactics efficiency/quality, if there is a flaw in the system which gives the tactic an inaccurate result then it is a misrepresentation of the tactic, is it not?

you might not be smart, you might not like tff, i don't know which it is, but you're wrong and arguing with you will go nowhere because if you can't get through to someone with simple fact you can't help them, done replying to you

 

[magmus]

the testing league displays results of the tactics, which represent the tactics efficiency/quality, if there is a flaw in the system which gives the tactic an inaccurate result then it is a misrepresentation of the tactic, is it not?

you might not be smart, you might not like tff, i don't know which it is, but you're wrong and arguing with you will go nowhere because if you can't get through to someone with simple fact you can't help them, done replying to you

I don't dislike TFF nor do I dislike anyone else on this forum. TFF is annoyed at the fact that his tactic is lower on someone's table, so he makes an entire topic about it, all because of a tactic he made for a video game. Then you come along and act as if I committed treason and all of a sudden I hate TFF and his tactics.

Saying "you're wrong" and then saying "done replying to you" kind of proves my point about your insecurities. At the end of the day, you are being hostile to someone on a forum without being provoked.

 

[Tacticseeker]

I don't dislike TFF nor do I dislike anyone else on this forum. TFF is annoyed at the fact that his tactic is lower on someone's table, so he makes an entire topic about it, all because of a tactic he made for a video game. Then you come along and act as if I committed treason and all of a sudden I hate TFF and his tactics.

Saying "you're wrong" and then saying "done replying to you" kind of proves my point about your insecurities. At the end of the day, you are being hostile to someone on a forum without being provoked.

"I find it rather funny that all this started just because TFF is annoyed for no reason that his tactic is not tip top in someone's testing league. Talk about being full of yourself."

your first post here. you use the word insecurities a lot too, small boy syndrome? seems like you're rather upset that you have nothing to be full of yourself about, when all he's doing is showing what's wrong with a tactic testing system, you know, helping people have a more enjoyable gaming experience, which is what you're on this forum for

i'm not sure why you are not satisfied with your life or achievements, but just because he's contributing to the forum there's no need to get upset about it, end of the day you're annoyed that he wants the forum to be more efficient/productive, a forum you visit to get efficient tactics, so his interest and your interests aren't conflicting, which makes it even more bizarre for you to be so hostile over him trying to help you.. weird people on here

 

[Dynamo_ZahnZee]

Boys, take it to the PMs. This is embarrassing to read!

 

[wkdsoul]

Pretty sure TTF made the same thread when he was top/2nd as well.

Mod instead of this thread, can we just a get a link to the FM15, FM14, FM13 version of this thread/debate/arguement?

 

[CobainK]

"don't waste your time..."

I definitely won't waste my time on this thread! Anyone reading it would be wasting his time, that's for sure!

 

[TotalFootballFan9]

Guys, as you can see my English is far from to be perfect

Now I see that when you read the thread's name it may sound that I urge people to ignore Will1981's testing threads or the tactics that he tests but it's absolutely not what I meant to...

So I renamed the thread to : "Don't make this mistake and don't test tactics this way..."

The new thread's name tells more accurate what this thread about...

When I made this thread I wanted to show that if you test tactics the way as Will1981 does then you just waste your time and I think I backed up my words very well...


As you can see the difference might be huge:

1) 109 points vs 141 = 30 %

2) +24 GD vs +87 GD = 262 %

Also, in general the randomness in the testing league at distance 70 matches is about 20%

I thinks that anyone person with common sense if look at these numbers says that such testing is just waste of time when the results difference between tactics in the testing table about 30% and the issue in the testing method might affect the result by +/- 30% and plus also there's 20% randomness at 70 matches distance…

I realised this once I started drinking again, heavily. Gave me perspective.

Chrissy, I might took your advice and I'll start drinking instead playing FM I think it would have less addictiveness

 

[Midnight54]

This is ******* hilarious.

It's a game. An actual game. Way and I mean way too much time and effort goes into these tactics, testing leagues etc.

I realised this once I started drinking again, heavily. Gave me perspective.

Have you got anything in the pipeline, Chrissy??