Fast, creative football while limiting ridiculous long shots?

[LazarusLong]

Hi,

I'm trying to to create a 4-2-3-1 high tempo, control and short passing tactic to mostly use in home games.
I've had a lot of a success with a 4-2-3-1 on normal tempo, standard and short passing on away games but on my home games teams usually park the bus and i'm trying to create a good tactic to break down defenses.


The problem is i HATE long shots and can't seem to get rid of them when i give my players some creative freedom.
It seems that in every tactic i create there are two options:
1) Play in a disciplined, standard mentality, low/normal tempo manner and avoid long shots. This can sometimes be problematic in home games when the opposition parks the bus. The slow build up play prevents me from creating chances while the opposition is defending deep.
2) If i try to play quicker with more creative freedom and roaming - i get a ton of useless long shots from my midfielders.

I'm not looking for the forum to fix my tactic, this is more of a general principle question - what is the correct approach for team instructions for creating a control mentality, fluid, high tempo with more creative freedom tactic that actually results in good chances and not idiotic long balls?

Thanks!

 

[WJ]

The answer is always the same, whatever tempo or mentality. Players need options. They will shoot if there aren't other options, they don't see the options, have the PPM or make a poor decision.

 

[LazarusLong]

I get that, but HOW do you give them options when the opposition is parking the bus?
I've seen that answer on countless threads and never seen an actual example of the solution.

My roles currently are:
CF/S
RMD/A SS/A IF/S
CM/D APM/S
FB/A CB/D CB/D FB/A
GK/D

The CF/S is supposed to drop, creating space for the SS to get into. The RMD is basically constantly looking for pockets of space. The IF/S helps with the build up and provides through balls to SS and RMD. The full backs bomb down the flanks to provide width.

Or at least that's what's supposed to happen but in the actual games none of that happens. I can barely create any through balls past the defense. The CF/S, CM/D, IF/S, AP/S shoot from long range making half my shots from long.
Yes they has some annoying PPM and i'm willing to accept Pogba will take a few long shots a game but the others?
By the way, shoot less is marked for all of my place. Kind of seems that player instruction is worth jack s***.

 

[WJ]

I get that, but HOW do you give them options when the opposition is parking the bus?
I've seen that answer on countless threads and never seen an actual example of the solution.

There are plenty of suggestions how. You won't get a "copy these roles and duties exactly" because that would be stupid. You have a different squad all with different capabilities. The point of it all is to create space. You do that with clever movement.

My roles currently are:
CF/S
RMD/A SS/A IF/S
CM/D APM/S
FB/A CB/D CB/D FB/A
GK/D

The CF/S is supposed to drop, creating space for the SS to get into. The RMD is basically constantly looking for pockets of space. The IF/S helps with the build up and provides through balls to SS and RMD. The full backs bomb down the flanks to provide width.

Or at least that's what's supposed to happen but in the actual games none of that happens. I can barely create any through balls past the defense. The CF/S, CM/D, IF/S, AP/S shoot from long range making half my shots from long.
Yes they has some annoying PPM and i'm willing to accept Pogba will take a few long shots a game but the others?
By the way, shoot less is marked for all of my place. Kind of seems that player instruction is worth jack s***.

You say the CF/S is supposed to drop. DOES he actually drop deep enough and create enough space for the other 2? This does cover the initial attack, if it works as you're intending it.

The instruction Shoot Less is great if used properly. It's supposed to get them to do something else instead, but if there's nothing to do, they'll still shoot, as I've said.

Who on earth is controlling the play here? It seems unnecessarily aggressive? In a 4-2-3-1, the entire idea behind the tactic is to free up the attacking fullbacks and have 2 solid holding midfielders. You have 1. So once the first wave breaks down, a pass may go back to the CM/D, but then what? You'll have 7 players ahead of him, all compressing play. Who's available for the pass? How do you draw the opposition out?

You need more patience in this tactic.

 

[goal326499]

If you're pressing the opponent with a more agressive approach, they will naturally bunker in front of their goal, and possibly leave your mids free at the edge of area, which is perfect for longshots. Its perfect because its the proper distance, and there is no way through a defence so tight. So longshots are what they should do and no point in forbidding them to do it. If you dont want longshots, dont press them so much. Or at least use wingers to stretch them wide and perhaps cross...

 

[LazarusLong]

There are plenty of suggestions how. You won't get a "copy these roles and duties exactly" because that would be stupid. You have a different squad all with different capabilities. The point of it all is to create space. You do that with clever movement.

You say the CF/S is supposed to drop. DOES he actually drop deep enough and create enough space for the other 2? This does cover the initial attack, if it works as you're intending it.

The instruction Shoot Less is great if used properly. It's supposed to get them to do something else instead, but if there's nothing to do, they'll still shoot, as I've said.

Who on earth is controlling the play here? It seems unnecessarily aggressive? In a 4-2-3-1, the entire idea behind the tactic is to free up the attacking fullbacks and have 2 solid holding midfielders. You have 1. So once the first wave breaks down, a pass may go back to the CM/D, but then what? You'll have 7 players ahead of him, all compressing play. Who's available for the pass? How do you draw the opposition out?

You need more patience in this tactic.

1) I can "add patience" which will basically make it as my other tactics. Slower build up, more conservative role distribution. Yes i'll have less long shots but it'll be harder breaking down a defense with the slow passing.

2) Let's talk a bit about the 2nd wave. When i have possession in the opponent's final third my player are already in their positions after they finished their runs. They're not making any new runs. I always assumed that's just how the FM engine works and the goal is just to recycle possession until you find an opening (which long shots prevent). Any new input on this?

If you're pressing the opponent with a more agressive approach, they will naturally bunker in front of their goal, and possibly leave your mids free at the edge of area, which is perfect for longshots. Its perfect because its the proper distance, and there is no way through a defence so tight. So longshots are what they should do and no point in forbidding them to do it. If you dont want longshots, dont press them so much. Or at least use wingers to stretch them wide and perhaps cross...

I'm pressing aggressively to control possession and break forward fast to prevent the opponent defense from organising (unsuccessfully), are you basically saying i need to not press them and let them attack? wouldn't this just be playing counter?

I'm trying to achieve a pressing, attacking and efficient 4-2-31 formation and i find it very frustrating.

 

[WJ]

1) I can "add patience" which will basically make it as my other tactics. Slower build up, more conservative role distribution. Yes i'll have less long shots but it'll be harder breaking down a defense with the slow passing.

I don't think you understood what was said at all? Let me ask again : Who is controlling the game here?

2) Let's talk a bit about the 2nd wave. When i have possession in the opponent's final third my player are already in their positions after they finished their runs. They're not making any new runs. I always assumed that's just how the FM engine works and the goal is just to recycle possession until you find an opening (which long shots prevent). Any new input on this?

You ARE supposed to recycle possession. WHO is going to be there to do the recycling? You have a single player, all on his own doing it.

 

[LazarusLong]

I don't think you understood what was said at all? Let me ask again : Who is controlling the game here?

You ARE supposed to recycle possession. WHO is going to be there to do the recycling? You have a single player, all on his own doing it.

Dude, i get it. No need to get all touchy, it's just a game discussion on an online forum.
The midfielders are the ones who's supposed to recycle possession so i took your advice and changed my AP/S to a DP/S but what the **** am i supposed to do with my attacking midfielders? after the 1st wave they're just sitting there useless on the 16 line.

 

[WJ]

Dude, i get it. No need to get all touchy, it's just a game discussion on an online forum.
The midfielders are the ones who's supposed to recycle possession so i took your advice and changed my AP/S to a DP/S but what the **** am i supposed to do with my attacking midfielders? after the 1st wave they're just sitting there useless on the 16 line.

I'm not getting touchy, but please read what I wrote. I ask questions that go unanswered. For instance, I asked : DOES he actually drop deep enough and create enough space for the other 2?

 

[LazarusLong]

I'm expecting my DLP/S to control the game. And yes, the CF/S (tried also F9) drop deep to the AM/C position but i'm not sure if that's deep enough or not. What i know for 100% is that i haven't created one through ball to my SS behind the opposition's defense which is very frustrating.

 

[WJ]

Then that'd be another area to look at. A F9 won't hold up the ball and I'm not sure a CF will drop deep enough and will try to do too much. What's wrong with a DLF? It's a role that can be tinkered with a lot.

 

[joribioye]

I'm expecting my DLP/S to control the game. And yes, the CF/S (tried also F9) drop deep to the AM/C position but i'm not sure if that's deep enough or not. What i know for 100% is that i haven't created one through ball to my SS behind the opposition's defense which is very frustrating.

I think you'd be better off with having a DLF/S, the RMD changed because he'll prob try and occupy the space the CF/S is making, thus clogging that hole the SS/A wants to get into. So make the RMD like W/A so he forces one side of the defense wide and leaves more space for CF/S to drop into that open area, meaning the middle is free for the SS to burst forward.

 

[Eduardo85]

I'm afraid the only what you can do to limit the long shots numbers is to add "Shot Less" PI to all your players and nothing else comes to my head

 

[Snorks]

Haven't read all the replies on the thread, but, this may sound silly, I sometimes use the "Pass Into Space' instruction to good effect trying to get diagonal balls in behind the defence.

Dribble less may help as well