FM 13 TACTICAL CHALLENGE THREAD - Who is the best Football Manager out there?

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FM 13 TACTICAL CHALLENGE THREAD


I had the idea to create this thread, after creating a very successfull tactic, but one that works very well in all games except away to stronger opponents. I've tried to create counter tactics and variations but nothing seems to work. So i thought why not create a challenge like the one implemented in the game this year, to see if anyone out there has the tactical genious to accomplish what i havent been able to, and if they can to give them their much deserved credit.

The idea is, to challenge anyone and everyone that believes he or she is capable of developing my tactic into an effective counter-attack tactic to use in games away from home against stronger opponents. The objective is to create a tactic that can be used in tandem with the first. So although position changes and changes to the philosophy of the tactic can be made, these have to take into account that the same squad of players are going to be used for both tactics, so these changes cannot be too drastic and both tactics must be in "harmony" with each other. This is the difficult part, not only make something that works, but make something that works with something else. Much like a marriage! yes, that difficult! hehehe :)

This challenge is open to anyone and everyone. You simply download the tactic, apply your changes and tweaks, perform tests, and when you think you have found something that will work, post your tactic, changes from the original version, results and overview. When i get round to testing the tactic of everyone that has decided to get involved, i will choose a winner! All they will get for now is "street rep" (H) and my greatest appreciation, but if this thread evolves into something greater, maybe we can find a better way of rewarding people for their efforts.

This thread will start with my tactical challenge, but if this works the way that i've imagined it, after this challenge is over, others may post their tactical challenges so that the fm-base users may try to solve them too! Obviously, we will only have one challenge at a time, otherwise it can become quite confusing. But lets see how we do with this one first!


CHALLENGE #1


Classic 4231 by Veez
View attachment 287789

Objective: Create counter attack tactic to play in away games against stronger opponents to be used in tandem with original tactic.

Comments: Very narrow and slow play, with very short passing - this is probably why it is not so effective in games against stronger opponents away from home.


This is the thread with a more in depth explanation of the tactic and the idea behind it:

http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/foot...1-classic-veez-new-patch-13-1-3-versions.html

Download Link: View attachment 287790


Good Luck!
 
To be honest i dont think there is much point in tweaking tactics as u can play the same game as many times as u like and it will never be the same as another time u played the same match. I tried this whilst getting frustrated having a similar problem to yourself and ended up giving up on the game as luck is a big element of the game.
Try this for yourself with your tactic u feel isnt working too well away from home and replay the game 5 or so times and u will see mixed results. Use the same team talk and ensure all press confrences match prep are the same and give this a go.
I dont see how you can try to tweak tactics to try to get the best out of your team when each time u play a game with the same tactic it is different anway.
 
dude its realistic. if you play the same football game 5 times in real life, it will never be the same either. be it with the same or a different tactic. the point of this thread isnt for everyone to try tweaks here and there. its for everyone who wants to, to give their views on how this tactic should play in the situation i defined, be it in this or another formation. every manager has different views and philosophies. mine arent working in this specific scenario, thats why i want input and ideas from other people with other views and philosophies, because they might have insight that i dont have or noticed specific flaws that i have overlooked. the idea of this project isnt for everyone to tweak a slider here and there. i want people to show me how they would do it. So that me , you and anyone else that reads this thread can try to learn from these diffeent approaches and build on their tactical knowledge and awareness of the game. this game is so complex that no one person in the world can dominate all aspects and styles of play. all of us have different things we can contribute with to the greater knowledge of the game. "two heads are better than one" - thats all i'm trying to do here, because unlike you, me and most people around here, haven't and will never give up on this game!
 
I always have liked the Kimz formation so will give it a try.
 
Knap said:
I look at a run of games, rather than base a tactic on one game.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Click to expand...

and thats exactly the way to do it. even good tactics need time to gel and even good tactics have bad games and loose matches. sometimes they even get lucky and win some too! thats football! the bottom line is: a good tactic will win you most your matches.

Knap, with what tactic did you get these resuts?
 
The WHG tactic above which was set up with Man City.
 
Knap said:
The WHG tactic above which was set up with Man City.
Click to expand...

nice! its a 442 isnt it? 442 is too simple for me, although it is said to be the most effective formation in FM i know. but i like challenges :) always find myself trying to make tactics with 3 at the back or asymetric tactics and other tings like that. had some awesome ones last year, but never actually shared them. this year, its much harder to create something really good though
 
Yes i understand that the game needs to be realistic but its impossible to understand the match engine and how to create a good tactic for any situation if when u play a game with the same variables which should change a players and teams performance e.g team talk match prep press conference and get different results anyway.

You can play a game with a tactic and believe it isnt very good because of a bad result or you might wonder if it was your team talk or press conference that could of been the problem and not the tactic itself. How are you meant to know what is the problem when you can play the same game as many times as u like and have completely different results?

Im contributing to this thread because i wanted to improve the defense of my team but i can play a game and concede 2 by half time or 0 when i and the other team have not changed a thing so i dont see how u can it seems to rely on luck.
 
Thats 451 but I tend to use 442 but have used odd formations such as 23212 in FM13.
 
are you the famous knap from the si forums? if so i have downloaded your tactic and is it me or is it just a standard 4 3 3???
 
ok, so you want this narrow 4231 used as is that is good against bigger teams and away from home?

what can we change?? what must we leave that is the original
 
1) all your player instructions are set mostly manually so no matter what you have set as your team instructions, WILL not apply to your players...

2) some strange player settings as well.. you had your CB crossing mixed which means that they might push up most of the field and get caught out..

3) going to give this a bash :P

will post a review after a couple of games

I have left the formation the same but changed several dozen things already... is that ok?

not sure what the rules are :)
 
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Raikan007 said:
ok, so you want this narrow 4231 used as is that is good against bigger teams and away from home?

what can we change?? what must we leave that is the original
Click to expand...

this tactic works very well against most teams at home and away, even bigger teams at home. the only time i find it doesnt work so well is against bigger teams away. you dont need to leave anythig as is. you can basically change whatever you want, but bearing in mind it will be used by a squad build for the initial tactic. obviously i would like the philosophy not to differ too much from the original, but im prepared to accept that if its the only way to make a successfull tactic that i can use in matches away to bigger teams.

i dont want anyone to restrain themselves when doing this, go wild with it, be inventive! i've had a couple wild ideas myself since i've got to work, just need to get home and test them :P

i want to find a tactic to pair with this one and use in tandem with it, but im also very interested to see how different people approach the same challenge. how do different people interpret my tactic and how do different people interpret counter-attacking football.

thats about it :)
 
Raikan007 said:
1) all your player instructions are set mostly manually so no matter what you have set as your team instructions, WILL not apply to your players...

2) some strange player settings as well..

3) going to give this a bash :P

will post a review after a couple of games
Click to expand...

anxiously await your feedback!
 
ok, so you want counter attacking football?

will the original tactic be used for most games??

as I said, the team instructions are THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you have set for your players instructions and NO CHANGING OF THE TEAM INSTRUCTIONS will have any effective whatsoever on your players.. only time wasting, tempo, defensive line etc..

it looks VERY DEFENSIVE like park the bus, yet its set to play attacking football :) its strange :) lol

can you change the formation at all?
 
Terak1 said:
Yes i understand that the game needs to be realistic but its impossible to understand the match engine and how to create a good tactic for any situation if when u play a game with the same variables which should change a players and teams performance e.g team talk match prep press conference and get different results anyway.

You can play a game with a tactic and believe it isnt very good because of a bad result or you might wonder if it was your team talk or press conference that could of been the problem and not the tactic itself. How are you meant to know what is the problem when you can play the same game as many times as u like and have completely different results?

Im contributing to this thread because i wanted to improve the defense of my team but i can play a game and concede 2 by half time or 0 when i and the other team have not changed a thing so i dont see how u can it seems to rely on luck.
Click to expand...

its not luck. obviously there are many variables in the game, such as player morale, team talks etc; it is harder to find out what isnt working when things are going wrong if you dont have an understanding of what to do and when to do it. so if you dont, you need to research and find out what the right thing to do in these cases is. when you know that your team morale is high, and that your team talks are appropriate you can narrow things down. is it my tactics? do i have the right payers for these tactics? should i have played these tactics against this opponent? did my team make costly mistakes or was i just outplayed? you're right when you say that this game has a lot ging on, but it has so much going on, and you can now affect so many aspects of it that it will never come down to luck in the long run. obviously everyone loses or wins a lucky game here and there. but in the long run, if you are doing the right things, the game will reward you. thats the whole point of it! obviously there are many new things to it this year, but they've been doing this for more than a decade now, trust them! i do :) if you think the game is too overwhelming for you right now, try FMC, less variables to control, you can concentrate more on your squad and tactic. when you've got that down, take the next step! thats the best advice i can give you mate. hope i've helped out.
 
Raikan007 said:
ok, so you want counter attacking football?

will the original tactic be used for most games??

as I said, the team instructions are THE COMPLETE OPPOSITE of what you have set for your players instructions and NO CHANGING OF THE TEAM INSTRUCTIONS will have any effective whatsoever on your players.. only time wasting, tempo, defensive line etc..

it looks VERY DEFENSIVE like park the bus, yet its set to play attacking football :) its strange :) lol

can you change the formation at all?
Click to expand...

lol i know its very strange, nut it works in most cases. and yes, the original tactic will be used most of the time. the tactic i want to be created will be used only away to bigger teams. thats the idea. and yes i know that team instruction will not change anything, except tempo, width and d-line. and yes you can change the formation.

it is quite defensive, but deadly when given poesssion and space. the defense sits back so not nto get caught out by through balls, but quickly closes down to not give the opposition space. it kind of contradicts itself i know. but it works tremendously. try it out! the problem with playing away against bigger teams is that they pressure you and dont give you time on the ball. as i rely on slow tempo, narow play and short pasing this is a problem. so i need to turn this into a counter-attacking tactic to use in these situations where i am under pressure and dont have time or space to pass the ball around.
 
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