FM - Unplayable?

[Mike.]

Whats the point of Total shots stat? They are only computer generated outcomes that are represented via visuals
Whats the point of Shots on target stat? They are only computer generated outcomes that are represented via visuals
Whats the point of Possession stat? They are only computer generated outcomes that are represented via visuals
Whats the point of any stat? They are only computer generated outcomes that are represented via visuals

The point is conversion rates. Lets say that SI put a conversion rate of 1/10 of total shots on target. Thats fine. I agree, thats true. What I don't agree with is 1/10 conversion rate of one on ones.

The one one one conversion rate should be 3/10 for top finishers. Meaning if they get 10 chances one on one, they should score 3 on average. Maybe sometimes 2 or 1 or 4. But no, it can never happen because that would mean that I would win by 3-5 goals every match.

sigh that makes no sense, because the they're all quantifiable stats. The CCC stat is not, thats why SI didnt want it in the first place, and thats why its not used in real life. the CCC stat isnt even a modifier, and not all CCC's are one on one's and vice versa

 

[dair]

sigh that makes no sense, because the they're all quantifiable stats. The CCC stat is not, thats why SI didnt want it in the first place, and thats why its not used in real life. the CCC stat isnt even a modifier, and not CCC's are one on one's and vice versa

Sigh.

You can DEFINE what a shot is. You can DEFINE when a shot is on target. You can DEFINE possession. You CANNOT define a clear cut chance. What the computer thinks is a clear cut chance. Vice versa you may think something is clear cut and the computer says not. I've seen free kicks from 25 yards out classified as clear cut, and I've seen cut backs to 8 yards out not classed as clear cut. I disagree with both of these, but if I just watched the statistic screen I wouldn't know. This is the whole **** point.

If you're really stupid enough to essentially be told an opinion is factual, then I can't be bothered with you. Read my above post.

I don't understand why you can't define CCCs. Your striker is one on one with the keeper - clear cut chance. Any other and that is a half chance and not counted. If there is no other players between your striker and the GK then its clear cut. How is that so hard to define?

EDIT: I get that the match engine may not be able to count the CCC stat properly. But as I explained previously you can do so yourself on a piece of paper or in your mind and it will be relatively the same which leads me to believe that FM engine can count them properly most of the time.

 

[ajt09]

I've been playing FM since the day I got it, and tbh, I've never found it unplayable. Infuriating at times, but never unplayable. As already mentioned, so there's so many factors when it comes to CCC or whatever, but I normally find it down to one thing at times-just being plain unlucky. So theres so many factors imo when it comes to chances. Goalies, weather, surface. Its normally hard to put some chances away if the surface is very bobbly as I've found. And I've also come to discover the weather can affect it to. And just like IRL as previously mentioned, just **** finishing. Kenwyn Jones anybody? There's so many midicating factors, like in real life. So it's not a case of the game being unplayable. It's just some things not going your way. Clamp down on some players-give the hair dryer treatment. Rotate the players, and give the key players a kick up the backside. Change the individual instructions, change the mentality. There's so many things that can be done to make a team/player much better, and it can sometimes come down to one little tweak. So not unplayable. With each match sometimes, you have to make a change simple as.

 

[Death Ball]

It's also the style of play. Some times your only way to have a chance is to soak pressure and grab a counter or two.

Since I've got the knack of the game, knowing what to look for in players and have some idea about what I'm doing in tactics, in Fm05, FM09, FM10 and FM11 I got a load of games in which all that "my team gets a huge lot of possession, many CCC, a lot more of shots and shots on target, yet the other wins". Except the line belongs to the AI, because the team winning with 4 shots, one on target, 27% of possession and 0 CCC is mine. And it happens a lot. Specially those times my team faces superior opposition. Because that is the way a minnow can win the big teams: grit the teeth in defense and look to take advantage of some counter or one of the few shots.

I have several screenies from older versions that I've been uploading in different threads, showing how it is possible for the player to do that to the AI. Or get the AI manager whine to the press how they deserved the win yet came out with a loss (FM09, I think).

I've just had one of those in my Dexther Bolle story. The only reason I've not had more in FM11 is because until that I've been with the Burgos story and, while Burgos is a fourth tier team, is one of the strong teams of the division, so previous to managing Coventry I had not been managing a team that needed to resort to that or for which those tactics work.

Those numbers are the ones of my 2-1 win over Barcelona at Camp Nou in FM10, and my 1-1 draw against Real Madrid, a match in which my team scored first, during the first season in La Liga (after coming all the way from fourth tier) and that was a first half of constant saves to apparently sitters of Real Madrid, and one missed save that happened to end in a woodwork.

What to do? For one, change a bit instructions to some other player so he'll run along to pounce on the rebound, or do it so that a good passer is the one who goes with the ball to make a pass to the striker so the goalie is removed from the equation with that pass.

 

[dair]

I've been playing FM since the day I got it, and tbh, I've never found it unplayable. Infuriating at times, but never unplayable. As already mentioned, so there's so many factors when it comes to CCC or whatever, but I normally find it down to one thing at times-just being plain unlucky. So theres so many factors imo when it comes to chances. Goalies, weather, surface. Its normally hard to put some chances away if the surface is very bobbly as I've found. And I've also come to discover the weather can affect it to. And just like IRL as previously mentioned, just **** finishing. Kenwyn Jones anybody? There's so many midicating factors, like in real life. So it's not a case of the game being unplayable. It's just some things not going your way. Clamp down on some players-give the hair dryer treatment. Rotate the players, and give the key players a kick up the backside. Change the individual instructions, change the mentality. There's so many things that can be done to make a team/player much better, and it can sometimes come down to one little tweak. So not unplayable. With each match sometimes, you have to make a change simple as.

Agreed, the thread title was somewhat misleading. But things ARE going my way. We win, from corners, free kicks, from screamers. We win competitions, trophies. We defend well. We create chances. The only problem is strikers not scoring when on the break. It happens so often that you just want to grind your eyes out.


@Death Ball

The problem with my striker is that he is low on teamwork. So even if my winger is arriving late and he can pass to him, he chooses to strike. The rebound usually goes out of play or the keeper holds it. Those two are virtually the only players with pace on my team.

 

[ajt09]

Agreed, the thread title was somewhat misleading. But things ARE going my way. We win, from corners, free kicks, from screamers. We win competitions, trophies. We defend well. We create chances. The only problem is strikers not scoring when on the break. It happens so often that you just want to grind your eyes out.

I agree that sometimes you just want to assume the rocking position and sob sometimes lol, but when I find that happening often, I have a private chat regarding finishing training, and see what happens. It could be something as simple as that. But I have to admit though, I rarely have that problem. But when it does happen, I agree you want to hurt an inanimate object lol

 

[dair]

I agree that sometimes you just want to assume the rocking position and sob sometimes lol, but when I find that happening often, I have a private chat regarding finishing training, and see what happens. It could be something as simple as that. But I have to admit though, I rarely have that problem. But when it does happen, I agree you want to hurt an inanimate object lol

Huh? Private chat regarding finishing training? Do you change your PPMs often? I basically look at the player stats and tell him to learn a PPM based on his stats and keep it forever.

 

[Joel`]

I don't understand why you can't define CCCs. Your striker is one on one with the keeper - clear cut chance. Any other and that is a half chance and not counted. If there is no other players between your striker and the GK then its clear cut. How is that so hard to define?

EDIT: I get that the match engine may not be able to count the CCC stat properly. But as I explained previously you can do so yourself on a piece of paper or in your mind and it will be relatively the same which leads me to believe that FM engine can count them properly most of the time.

Because you cannot define a clear cut chance. What you say is one, I can disagree and say it isn't. But if someone gives you a possession statistic, you cannot disagree because it is a defined measure. As I said, you can write down what you think are CCC's and be 100% accurate. I could do the same and be 10% accurate. If it was quantifiable then we would both get 100%. This is the problem.

 

[ChrisBird]

Who is the striker there that you have taken a screenshot of?

Also he's scored 4 out of his last 5. How many do you want him to score?

??

 

[dair]

Because you cannot define a clear cut chance. What you say is one, I can disagree and say it isn't. But if someone gives you a possession statistic, you cannot disagree because it is a defined measure. As I said, you can write down what you think are CCC's and be 100% accurate. I could do the same and be 10% accurate. If it was quantifiable then we would both get 100%. This is the problem.

Same thing can be said about shots/shots on target/saves/virtually any other stat other than possession.

@ChrisBird

He is a barcelona regen

 

[Mike.]

Same thing can be said about shots/shots on target/saves/virtually any other stat other than possession.

@ChrisBird

He is a barcelona regen

that is simply not true.

 

[dair]

that is simply not true.

Why not? What you judge to be a shot I might consider a cross. What if the winger tries to cross towards the goal from the byline and it goes by the post? Was that a shot or a cross? Debatable.

 

[Joel`]

Same thing can be said about shots/shots on target/saves/virtually any other stat other than possession.

@ChrisBird

He is a barcelona regen

No it can't, all those are quantifiable. Any term used in statistics and science is definable in a way which you can't argue. Velocity is the rate of change of displacement of an object, for instance. Possession is the percentage of time a team has spent on the ball. It can be calculated by:
time on the ball (in seconds)/overall time in game (in seconds) *100%

Define me a clear cut chance in a way I can't argue with. To save you the time, you can't. You can say he's one on one so he should easily score. I can argue that he's at the near post on his weaker foot, for instance. If there's debate over what a term is, you simply cannot count it as data.

quantifiable - definition of quantifiable by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
1. To determine or express the quantity of.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------

Why not? What you judge to be a shot I might consider a cross. What if the winger tries to cross towards the goal from the byline and it goes by the post? Was that a shot or a cross? Debatable.

If there's a reason for debate it isn't collated.

 

[Jake]

Yawn, this is oldest and most boring rumour that there is.

Stats and games like the one posted in the OP happen occasionally in real life, thats football. They also happen occasionally on FM, because its a simulation. If it's happening to you every game, either you're incredibly paranoid, or your tactics are *****.

If you are moaning about 2 or 3 games a season having this sort of outcome, you should probably go and play LMA Manager or something, it's not possible to win every single game on FM.

 

[dair]

Yawn, this is oldest and most boring rumour that there is.

Stats and games like the one posted in the OP happen occasionally in real life, thats football. They also happen occasionally on FM, because its a simulation. If it's happening to you every game, either you're incredibly paranoid, or your tactics are *****.

If you are moaning about 2 or 3 games a season having this sort of outcome, you should probably go and play LMA Manager or something, it's not possible to win every single game on FM.

Too bad that they happen frequently and you missed the very last lines of my OP. If they happen occasionally I would have no problem but once every 2-4 matches is simply retarded.

@Joel
Define a shot on target. In fact for every shot on target you show me, I will show you a clear cut chance.

 

[Mike.]

Too bad that they happen frequently and you missed the very last lines of my OP. If they happen occasionally I would have no problem but once every 2-4 matches is simply retarded.

@Joel
Define a shot on target. In fact for every shot on target you show me, I will show you a clear cut chance.

what? thats a load of rubbish, this thread is clearly going nowhere

 

[Jake]

Too bad that they happen frequently and you missed the very last lines of my OP. If they happen occasionally I would have no problem but once every 2-4 matches is simply retarded.

Yawn, this is oldest and most boring rumour that there is.

Stats and games like the one posted in the OP happen occasionally in real life, thats football. They also happen occasionally on FM, because its a simulation. If it's happening to you every game, either you're incredibly paranoid, or your tactics are *****.

If you are moaning about 2 or 3 games a season having this sort of outcome, you should probably go and play LMA Manager or something, it's not possible to win every single game on FM.

FM is not unplayable, i don't experience this problem more than a few times a season.

This thread is a duplicate, posts by myself and mike talk at length on the subject here