FM18 Rage Thread

vanTiggelen

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Dec 7, 2014
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What the game apparently needs is people thinking in simple football terms (UI as well as feedback). In simple terms, how do football teams increase the chance of scoring, and how do they increase the chance of conceding (that parking bus bloke on the SI forums). All the whilst balancing both; may also be influenced how opposition actually plays (sitting deep / pushing forward ////// using a formation that packs the middle where the space to be had is on the flanks vs one that is more balanced).

The tricky thing about possession too is that it is oft much too easy to come by in-game. Take this FM 17 sequence--- that's a third division team (AI) dominating the middle of the park against a first division team (AI), because the wide midfielders don't defend (hardcoded), and the two forwards don't help out the two guys in that 4-4-2 either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVqYbrsOF0 The one AI has a 3 vs 2 training match in the middle of the park. That's been rectified by FM 18 at least. Still possession means ****. And the shots are only barely better. Go beyond stats, in particular of the level FM provides, and you're getting somewhere.

Either way, Zidane who considers this did rage last term a ******* lot (as did Burnley's opposition -- who didn't even try to keep opposition from shooting). ;) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/sports/soccer/burnley-arsenal-premier-league.html
 

Tohammer

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Aug 17, 2018
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What the game apparently needs is people thinking in simple football terms (UI as well as feedback). In simple terms, how do football teams increase the chance of scoring, and how do they increase the chance of conceding (that parking bus bloke on the SI forums). All the whilst balancing both; may also be influenced how opposition actually plays (sitting deep / pushing forward ////// using a formation that packs the middle where the space to be had is on the flanks vs one that is more balanced).

The tricky thing about possession too is that it is oft much too easy to come by in-game. Take this FM 17 sequence--- that's a third division team (AI) dominating the middle of the park against a first division team (AI), because the wide midfielders don't defend (hardcoded), and the two forwards don't help out the two guys in that 4-4-2 either. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVqYbrsOF0 The one AI has a 3 vs 2 training match in the middle of the park. That's been rectified by FM 18 at least. Still possession means ****. And the shots are only barely better. Go beyond stats, in particular of the level FM provides, and you're getting somewhere.

Either way, Zidane who considers this did rage last term a ******* lot (as did Burnley's opposition -- who didn't even try to keep opposition from shooting). ;) https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/25/sports/soccer/burnley-arsenal-premier-league.html
I always watch all the attacks of both teams, but sadly its no help whatsoever. How am I supposed to work out weaknesses in my tactic after a 5 foot 4 striker with less than 10 for jumping and heading gets above both my 6 foot 4 centre backs who are 15 plus in both. If i'm conceding goals by balls over the top to a quick striker who's adept at beating the offside trap then great I can work out how to fix that, but that is rarely what you see on the pitch. I've had to sit and watch an half injured Peter Crouch running and dribbling half the length of the pitch at speed through 6 players and slot the ball home like Pele or Maradonna.
 

apvmoreira

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Jan 26, 2012
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I've personally witnessed games where by making the wrong initial choice has seen me losing 0-2 in a game where the opposition has not had a single shot on goal(2 own goals of course). This is why a lot of FM'ers rage quit, cheat or look for plug and play tactics. Playing the game as SI intended is just not viable as the game stands today, its a lot of work for little or no reward.
In what year are you? Using a 3-4-3 this year will make you win 99% of the games, trust me. just look for a thread in the tactics sub section and use it
 

Tohammer

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Aug 17, 2018
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In what year are you? Using a 3-4-3 this year will make you win 99% of the games, trust me. just look for a thread in the tactics sub section and use it
Thank you, but I've done that and I only lasted 2 seasons before I was bored. I don't mind a plug and play tactic, but its gotta be a realistic formation otherwise I lose interest.
 

vanTiggelen

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Dec 7, 2014
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Watching: Considering that (just as in football), dozens of attacks don't go anywhere and are intercepted (90 minutes...), considering the above tactics it may be worthwile starting right in recognizing what the implications are of pushing every player under the sun forward (or, as in this Napoli team first sequence, vice versa). Defensively, and yes, also in terms of attacking. 22 dots kicking and chasing a ball around. It's a lot more robotic than real football ever is. Isolated skill moves may be a bit less relevant than repeat patterns -- one of which is that the game models always repeat defensive, attacking and transition phases (unless something is changed...), basic sports.
 

apvmoreira

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Jan 26, 2012
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I've personally witnessed games where by making the wrong initial choice has seen me losing 0-2 in a game where the opposition has not had a single shot on goal(2 own goals of course). This is why a lot of FM'ers rage quit, cheat or look for plug and play tactics. Playing the game as SI intended is just not viable as the game stands today, its a lot of work for little or no reward.
In what year are you? Using a 3-4-3 this year will make you win 99% of the games, trust me. just look for a thread in the tactics sub section and use it
 

vanTiggelen

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His argument was that he finds it pointless then (and I can personally relate, it's a viable choice; but why spend bucks on a football sim game and then break it so that you can smash holiday and know what's gonna happen 100% of the time).

Re: Watching, second post. This might seem counterintuitive, but engaging/reading discussions where engine weaknesses are assessed can also be a good thing. Sometimes, that is even done in the bugs forum, when stuff goes beyond merely statistics and numbers.

FM18 https://community.sigames.com/topic/430181-me-loophole/
FM17 https://community.sigames.com/topic/401732-concerning-tactical-issue/

Not merely may they analyse why that "3-4-3" this year cen be like a cheat (and how several AI approaches may still defend it some). They can give you a general idea what people are watching out for. I'm confident that a significant number of guys who upload tactics here don't know **** about why they bring the results they do (that is, as long as they do). This goes even for some of the more popular guys. You can see this in their flawed interpretations of it all every year. This is the "chimps on typewriters" paradoxon (not that these guys are chimps). However, given an infinite amount of time, even a chimp would discover that 3-4-3 by accident.

It is very rare that somebody explains to you why something works so efficiently, like this guy. https://www.fmscout.com/a-unstoppable-attacking-fm18-tactic.html As a serial downloader you will still be likely back to your downloads. The general superior consistency they achieve is by exploiting game flaws. It's unatainable if you doN't aim to do such. Suddenly player quality may matter some. Suddenly matches may be closer affairs and settled in margins. Overall, the game may appear more random because of it. And back you go.
 
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apvmoreira

Member
Jan 26, 2012
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Not merely may they analyse why that "3-4-3" this year cen be like a cheat (and how several AI approaches may still defend it some). They can give you a general idea what people are watching out for. I'm confident that a significant number of guys who upload tactics here don't know **** about why they bring the results they do (that is, as long as they do). This goes even for some of the more popular guys. You can see this in their flawed interpretations of it all every year. This is the "chimps on typewriters" paradoxon (not that these guys are chimps). However, given an infinite amount of time, even a chimp would discover that 3-4-3 by accident.

It is very rare that somebody explains to you why something works so efficiently, like this guy. https://www.fmscout.com/a-unstoppable-attacking-fm18-tactic.html As a serial downloader you will still be likely back to your downloads. The general superior consistency they achieve is by exploiting game flaws. It's unatainable if you doN't aim to do such. Suddenly player quality may matter some. Suddenly matches may be closer affairs and settled in margins. Overall, the game may appear more random because of it. And back you go.
Aren't game flaws the defensive mistakes that we need to win?

I understand that you want to play a game so realistic that you only exploit the other team defensive mistakes, like irl. But it's a game and cannot replicate 100% the human behavior!!!!

So, in my point of view, using 3 strikers, for example, it's a game exploit, or what made Porto win the last league? Or what Klopp does with Liverpool, since the 2 IFs, play more in the middle that in the wings?

Marega in Portugal scored a lot playing between the LB and the LCB, like the 3-4-3
By approaching Salah to the center, Klopp has made him a tremendous scorer.


You also talk about payer quality. In FM, again, reality is the starting point but cannot be replicated. How many goals can you score with Messi, in the game, using the same role that irl? 10? 15? If you want him to score 50, you need to put him in the right side of a 3 striker attack! and why? Because FM give more importance to physical attributes and less to technique. The tight marking instructions will always put Messi under heavy guard, just like irl. Add some hard tackle and Messi (that only can have 20 in each attribute) will be destroyed. His technique will never surpass the physical attributes of the defenders.

This means that you need the exploit to replicate real life.
 

vanTiggelen

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Dec 7, 2014
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This means that you need the exploit to replicate real life.
I think there is a valid point about technique (or how FM may replicate top players). But if you get Messi scoring but 15ish goals, you have an issue. There is also common misconception here too though that player (IRL and to an extent in FM) would be decisively more deadly than the rivals on their levels. Messi, CR7 et all don't average a goal per match because they are that mroe deadly. They do so because they average a ton of attempts per match. Messi 5+, CR (who still went four months in La Liga last term with scoring but two goals) a consistently 7, up to 12+ a match. Ditto Harry Kane. From my experience, unless you get a forward to average at least 4 attempts (without an actual exploit), he won't score a goal per match. Numbers to be displayed in his profile screen.

As the aforementioned SI threads show, the line between an "exploit" and "tactics" can be very fine though. And even one of the SI tactical gurus is accused of exploiting a game flaw. As of the super efficient downloads, the In the three striker variations you don't merely get one player consistently scoring, but three of them. Additionally, you have a seasonal shot to goal conversion advantage over opponents that exists absolute nowhere. This is an edge, a consistent one, that is unheard of in all of football. Matches thus are won before the ball is kicked. CThat's not quite football, that's a fantasy. Which is fine, but to me it is what it is. And you may realize yourself that it's kinda "easy mode", which some like and others don't. All fine. :)
 

Tohammer

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Aug 17, 2018
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Is there any way to check how many injuries you've had compared to other clubs during the season? Some of my players are into their 3rd and 4th injury of the season and its only early October. Not one of these players is "injury prone" either. I get a player fit again and he picks up a knock early in the next game and it all starts again. Checked for recurring injuries and that's not a factor.
 
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