jonathan424

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Hi. Im a relative novice in the football manager series (prior experience was fm12). After sieving through much of the post ur frustration thread section, I would just like to humbly ask for your opinions on whether football manager 14 is worth playing and putting so much effort into (would not mind immersing myself deeply into the game if it is worth it).
 
Hi. Im a relative novice in the football manager series (prior experience was fm12). After sieving through much of the post ur frustration thread section, I would just like to humbly ask for your opinions on whether football manager 14 is worth playing and putting so much effort into (would not mind immersing myself deeply into the game if it is worth it).

If you like football and strategy then you will thoroughly enjoy the game despite its quirks
 
But what im hearing is that the strategy is ineffective and restricted (in terms of being only a few strategies that ate truly effective)
 
But what im hearing is that the strategy is ineffective and restricted (in terms of being only a few strategies that ate truly effective)

Nope, more like there are too many strategies and a lot of players try to stick with a single one that's ineffective and then wonder why they are losing
 
I made a long post about FM14 a while ago:

@Raikan

To be honest, it just sounds like you haven't played enough FM14. I started my current pentagon challenge as Venezia in Serie C/1A and I've had to undergo a very deep dive into tactics to really improve consistency. I started off like most players on this forum with 2 tactics in mind - an attacking/possession style soccer for home games, and a fast/counter style soccer for away games. I looked at some forum tactic examples and made them into my own to better suit my lower class of players. I also used automatic opposition instructions and mainly affected the game through shouts & substitutions. I also used comprehensive highlights so I could better see what was going on with the match.

This seemed to work pretty well at first, though every once in a while I'd drop a bizarre game here and there. Through luck & constant tactic tinkering without really understanding it all I got promoted to Serie B.

Then I had to delete all my tactics, because brainless attacking/possession and counter/direct pass led me to relegation playoffs. I encountered all the same frustrations that everyone's posted about on the forums. I would go on a 3-game win streak against league leaders, only to drop the next 5 games against bottom of table teams. And yes, the fact that almost all my players were only 1-3 stars had a small part to do with it, but I recognized the larger problem at hand was tactics (specifically, trying to force a group of random players into one tactic designed my random forum people rather than looking at my best players and building a tactic that best suits their strengths and makes perfect football sense), individual player instructions (attacking and defending set pieces), and opposition instructions, especially when the AI changes formations and brings on substitutes.

So I designed 5 or 6 tactics with mixed results and finally settled on 3 to use mid-season in Serie B. My approach was to have one primary tactic (for both home and away games). My primary tactic, however, consistently had problems against 4-4-2 and 4-2-4, so I designed a variation to deal with them (and only against teams that used those formations). My third tactic was a defensive possession tactic to help hold a lead (crowding the d-line and midfield).

I began selecting additional opposing players to mark/close down before the match (because auto-instructions never does enough, I almost always have to add on more). I also had the opposing team's formation and players box open during the match to spot any substitutions or formation changes. Substitutions never have any opposition instructions set unless you manually do them (and I can't be bothered to also check their bench pre-match, so I do it the moment they make a sub). And whenever the AI changed formations, if they changed to my weakness (in my case, 4-4-2 or 4-2-4), I would respond appropriately.

What happened in the 2nd half of the season was I only dropped 3 matches in total, climbed from 14th to 3rd, won the Italian Cup, and won promotion playoffs. I stopped conceding goals to corners. I started converting from set pieces (long throws from goal-line, corners, and free kicks outside their box). I dramatically cut down my off-side shots. I stopped throwing matches after half-time due to AI subs/formation changes. This with a pretty trash team (I had 2 players with 4-star ratings, and 1 with 3.5 stars. All the teams I played had full 4-5 stars)

One of the 3 matches dropped was against a Serie A team which I still won on aggregate. Nonetheless I still managed to beat 2 strong Serie B teams and 4 strong Serie A teams throughout the Italian Cup with a team of mostly 2-3 star players. My underdog team with tactics designed for these 2-3 star players was consistently beating any team that came across their way, most of them fielding 4-5 star players. No cheese, I just do my best to have 50 possession and make sure that most of my shots are on-target and most of my opponents shots are long-range/off-target. And for every 2-3 star first team member, I had another 2-3 star backup player in case of injuries (of which there were many because FM14 trolls hard with injuries, once had 4 of my players with red injuries in a single game)

To conclude, FM14 will be a frustrating game for many players who don't want to invest the time to learn the tactics system. Downloaded plug and play tactics might work, they might not. The latter is more likely if you're not using the same team that owner of the tactic is also using. FM14 will also be utterly confusing to someone who doesn't spend time viewing a match on comprehensive/extended, because match stats and "clear cut chance/goal scoring" moments can only tell you so much - it's more important to actually see what's going right and wrong throughout the match. Are your on-target shots weak-sauce shots from outside of the box? Are your off-target shots from a striker inside the box but who is in poor form? Is your possession in your half of the field (forced to be defensive) or actually offensive possession? Who is making great passes and through balls to create chances, and who is just making boring passes that result in nothing but a small bump in that possession % stat? This is information that actually matters.
 
After reading this, I really feel so motivate and encouraged by your persistent endeavours and dedication. I think I have got ur message and now know what to do. Thanks again
 
I made a long post about FM14 a while ago:

Really? So all SerieB teams are full of 4-5 star players? Where did you come up with this?
How you made them that all the shots to be on target?
The game is broken it has nothing to do with tactics it has nothing to do with reality .
Its made to look more challenging but is more ****** then ever .
Jonathan , buy the game
See you soon in the frustration thread
 
Really? So all SerieB teams are full of 4-5 star players? Where did you come up with this?
How you made them that all the shots to be on target?
The game is broken it has nothing to do with tactics it has nothing to do with reality .

I guess you've never played a season in Serie B (and I played two seasons) A majority of teams in Serie B have 4-5 star players. Obviously more 4 and 4.5 star players than 5 (and my opposition scout has 19 judge CA). Club values mid-table and above typically range from 20M to 200M. A lot of 4.5 or 5 potential star players in Serie B can be purchased for 2M or less (I had 700k transfer budget as a team with a club value of 6M and still managed to pick up two 4 star players with a 4.5 star potential).

I never made all my shots on-target, just 60-70% up from 30-40%. The result: my top goal scorer was 2.5 stars, he had the 5th most goals in the league at the end of the season. #1-4, and #6-10 were all 4-5 star strikers (including my own 4-star striker in #8)

There are plenty of ways to do this, here are some ways: Either adjust your formation (maybe your opponent has too many defenders closing your strikers down or you need more midfielders), or give individual instructions to shoot less often / hold up ball to anyone who keeps shooting off-target, also work into box, drill crosses or float crosses, shorter passing or more direct passing etc. AI defenders typically do a good job of closing you down so you need to use tactics to break apart their marking. Roam more often and swap wings can break tight markers. I could write an article on this stuff but there are plenty of guides/articles on FM14 that detail these things. Just google Passion4FM or Guidetofootballmanager, decent starting points.

Honestly, if you spent less time raging and more time learning the game you would stop losing. Also stop downloading tactics and thinking they will work out for you. They are a good starting point to see how other players are tinkering with their tactics. However, learning how to adjust your tactic/formation on-demand will always trump 1 tactic. Case in point, last night I decided to change my 3-4-3 formation to a 2-3-2-3 formation right before a EURO Cup match against a stronger opponent who was using a 5-3-2 (no one in Serie A uses 5-3-2 lol). And I proceeded to dominate the match in possession, shots, and goals.
 
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@MisterBurkes

I tried an experiment. I've made in editor 12 identical teams with identical players and identical stuff, practically I've made 12 clones. All the players have the same attributes, I mean 14 points in everything, except injury proneness, dirtiness and controversy, 14 points in dribbling, tackling, marking, passing, creativity, pace, etc.

I went in holiday until 1 january 2013 and I let my assistent to decide everything. The training was set with general training focused on balanced, intensity high. All players were trained for their roles with intensity average. Guess on what place was my team? 11 from 12. I ran the same simulation twice more. Second time my team was 12th and third time my team was 11th again. On these simulations I didn't set any tactics.

Then I put two tactics in tactics panel and before I went in holiday, I've instructed my assistant to play my tactics. After I've ran the simulation I found my team on 11th place.

Then I changed the tactics, run the simulation again, 11th place again.

Once more I've changed the tactics, ran the simulation again, 12th place.

I've change the team, I kept the tactics, I ran the simulation, 11th place.

After this I felt empty and useless. I used this simulation before, on FM2013, to test tactics and changes in tactics and always I could improve my team's position and results were significant. Results from FM 2014 simulations baffled me.

I meditated about this experiment and I draw some conclusions. Your team is always in some disadvantage and you have to compensate with better players, better team speech, better training, keeping morale up and perhaps better tactics. But the importance of tactics is diminished and I thought in a game like FM2014 the tactics should be much more important.

So, in a sense, you're right, there is no such a thing, like a single winning tactics, but you're wrong when you believe that tweaking your tactics will make a difference. The game is so badly damaged, that too many parameters affects the equation and you can't predict which one is which. So, suppose you took from a save and then you tried something with Full Backs and it doesn't work. But it doesn't work not only because your tactic tweaking is wrong, but because, in that day, those two players were in a bad day, bad shape. You'll take again from save and you will try something different with those two FB and this time will work. You will think that your tweak is good, but in fact, enemy's wingers had a bad day and they are very inefficient in this case.

I hope you understand what I mean, even english is not my native language. It is all about predictability. I played FM from 2009 and every year I can see what my tweaks in tactics do. In FM 2014 you can't say anymore.
 
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Can I also ask if opposition instructions being handled by ur assistant manager instead would clash with ur own tean tactics set?
 
Can I also ask if opposition instructions being handled by ur assistant manager instead would clash with ur own tean tactics set?

Everything was handled by my assistant, I was in holiday.
 
@Claud

Interesting experiment, but as I always play matches on comprehensive, letting a single tactic or two run on AI assist on holiday doesn't reflect my own personal experience with FM14 and thus I can't comment too much on your results. I will say that I agree with players out of form being an issue, I always have a backup for every one of my players and tend to sub 1 or 2 of them out if I see them playing poorly in the first few highlights. I've had 2-star strikers inconceivably outperform 4-star strikers for certain stretches and I just ride the wave while they are in form.

I've noticed with FM14 that the AI of some teams really like to switch formations throughout the match. That's why I've learned to keep the opposing formation box open throughout the match to spot any changes. One of the more common "formation rotations" I've seen playing in Serie B/A is 4-5-1 into 4-4-2 into 4-2-4. It's really annoying and can easily catch you offguard, because it requires you to respond with formation changes of your own if possible. If your assistant manager stuck with 1 formation then that could result in poorer results.

On opposition instructions ... I have a staff of 11 coaches and a really good assistant coach, their collective auto-opposition instruction is still bad. Before when I was still in the lower leagues, my coaches gave almost non-existent opposition instructions. Currently, they pretty much choose to always tightly mark every striker, hard tackle every striker and midfielder, and show onto weaker foot every striker and midfielder. That's not TOO bad, except that I want to close down every midfielder with good crossing ability and long shot, and I choose to tightly mark or close down a striker on a case by case basis. And hard tackling Mario Balotelli isn't a great idea. Manual opposition instructions is a bit tedious but I concede far less goals this way, so it's worth it.

@ Jonathan I used this guide to learn opposition instructions btw: http://www.mypassion4footballmanage...ns-example-on-eliminate-specific-threats.html
 
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I agree that AI can change the formation and tactic during a match in FM2014, but it does it in FM2013 and in FM2012 too. And my simulation on FM2013 was relevant.

I don't know if you can do another experiment. Set your tactics on a single style of play. Lets say Fluid, Attacking, More Direct Passing, Higher Tempo, Hassle Opponents, Use Offside Trap, and 4-2-3-1 formation. Now, before every match look at your opponent Report, Tactics, Tactics Faced and on the top should be a text like this:"At the other end of the field playing against ...(Xformation)........ seemed to cause most problems, conceding a goal every ........minutes." If you will choose for your team, the formation indicated here as Xformation you will win 90% of matches. You don't have to change anything of your style, just the formation.

When I discovered this, I thought is because statistics works in your advantage and it reveales the true weakness of your enemy. In fact, is just a scripting that verify if the condition is fulfilled. The condition is verified at the beginning of the match, when your formation should match with Xformation. Keeping the same style of play and just changing the formation will still preserve a high familiarity. If familiarity is high and Xformation match, then odds favors your team.

If you want to verify more, you can take from a save and try with different style of play and you'll see the result is the same. So it doesn't matter if you play with high tempo, direct passes, or slow tempo and short passes. In previous FM 2012 you have conditions about the width of the pitch. If you played wide on a narrow pitch you would lose.
 
Sure, but that's because you are performing instant result calculations, which probably involve far fewer variables (that's the only way to not have all the other leagues and matches lag you).
 
FM14 it s a ******* nooob game !

you can have the best tactic the best player shooot 30 time you will probably loose because the ******* game have decided you will loose because computer score on 1 shoot or 2 ( 50% of the computer shoot are goal ) ******* frustation game go play fifa and make you team score !
 
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