Getting Results- just not quite the style I want

[Matt932]

Okay so this may sound a bit ungrateful, I am but I am playing with Newcastle (1st season still in the championship) getting some fab results (as you'd expect) however the style of play is not quite what I am looking for.

My idea is simple really. Newcastle have some really fast players in Atsu, Gayle and Nahki Wells who I have signed. I don't care about possession or pressing so much but I just want to play long balls over the top of the opposition defence to get the players mentioned above in on goal. Simple and exciting right? However I feel I am not matching my style. I have set most of my players to 'More risky' and 'More direct passing' as well asking my goal keep to play long balls over the defence and I feel like I am not capturing the style I want here are my tactics.

Mentality: Counter
Shape: Structured
High tempo with Wide play (suits more direct play)

Slightly Deeper Defensive Line, Closing Down More, Prevent Short Distribution, Tighter Marking
Clear to Flanks, Exploit both Flanks, Pass Into Space (obviously), More Direct Passing (obviously)
Hits Early Crosses

Typical Line Up

Keeper GK(D): Darlow

Right Back FB( A): Yedlin/Gamez
Centre Back CD(D): Lascelles
Centre Back CD(D): Clarke/Mbemba
Left Back FB( A): Lazaar

Right Centre Mid CM(D): Colback/Tiote
Left Centre Mid AP(S): Shelvey
Right Midfield WM(A ): Ritchie

Attacking Midfield Centre AM(A ): Perez
Attacking Midfield Left IF(A ): Atsu
Striker AF/Poacher: Gayle.

I am undecided which role for the forward works best with what I am trying to achieve.
Thanks in advance for any help/advice
Matt

 

[WJ]

Firstly, Counter has default settings. Your width is fairly narrow; your tempo is fairly low. You setting it a little higher will only slightly change that.

Second, you mention that what's happening on the pitch isn't what you wanted, but then fail to mention what's actually happening. That's a big piece of info that's needed here. So what are your issues with how you're playing now?

 

[Matt932]

Second, you mention that what's happening on the pitch isn't what you wanted, but then fail to mention what's actually happening. That's a big piece of info that's needed here. So what are your issues with how you're playing now?

The team, are not playing the way I described as above. They are not playing enough long balls over the top of the opposition defence for the striker and inside forward to run onto. Instead they seem to be playing and high line working the ball into the box and letting the full backs over lap.

 

[HereComeTheFleet]

From your tactics, I'd change to overload and go route one. Exploiting the flanks will play the ball to the wings. Put the wingers on support duties and change to exploit the middle perhaps?

Could be wrong, I don't consider myself a tactics guru.

 

[WJ]

The team, are not playing the way I described as above. They are not playing enough long balls over the top of the opposition defence for the striker and inside forward to run onto. Instead they seem to be playing and high line working the ball into the box and letting the full backs over lap.

Why choose a Counter Mentality, a Mentality that encourages safe passes (safe everything), when you don't want that then? You want aggressive balls played to the front. You want risks taken. That's a much higher Mentality.

 

[Matt932]

Why choose a Counter Mentality, a Mentality that encourages safe passes (safe everything), when you don't want that then? You want aggressive balls played to the front. You want risks taken. That's a much higher Mentality.

But that is not what counter attack means. Counter attack means invite the opposition in then hit them with long balls and fast players to attack them before they can get enough players back. It has nothing to do with the amount of risks and risk of passes

 

[Matt932]

From your tactics, I'd change to overload and go route one. Exploiting the flanks will play the ball to the wings. Put the wingers on support duties and change to exploit the middle perhaps?

Could be wrong, I don't consider myself a tactics guru.

Thanks what you're saying about the wingers makes sense. I will try changing than and the full backs to support in the future. Though I tend to be sceptical over the overload mentality, never done a lot with it. Besides I'm trying to achieve a counter attack, ball of the top kind of play. Overload will attempt to dominate the opposition

 

[WJ]

But that is not what counter attack means. Counter attack means invite the opposition in then hit them with long balls and fast players to attack them before they can get enough players back. It has nothing to do with the amount of risks and risk of passes

I know what counter attacking means. You didn't once say that you wanted to be counter attacking. Your aren't counter attacking now? You're just direct all the time. There's a big, big difference.

A Counter Mentality does ask players not to take risks. It's part of the whole idea of Mentality. It's a risk modifier basically.

 

[Bigpapa42]

A fast, direct attack is not a counter attack.

 

[Matt932]

How would u set up?
Defense line deep and attacking mentality?

Deep with counter mentality. ^ everything said originally above

 

[Matt932]

municipio 144550

A fast, direct attack is not a counter attack.

Please explain what is then please?

 

[Bigpapa42]

Please explain what is then please?

In FM terms, a counter attack is an attack that is fast and direct that happens after you win the ball back and the opponent is out of position defensively, so you have numerical equality or superiority. You are trying to take advantage of the opposition being at a defensive disadvantage. So simply being fast and direct is missing some pretty key components, hence why its not automatically the same as a counter attack.

An example of a counter attack - you are defending deep with 10 men behind the ball and just a lone forward doing work up top. The opponent has the ball in your half, pressing back to your 9 outfield players but you maintain shape and positioning. They commit more forward, trying to break you down, to the point that they have everyone but the 2 central defenders in your half. You win the ball. The opponent is exposed defensively. You push it out wide, and your winger dribbles past the halfway line as the opponent scrambles to get back and defend. They are out of position and exposed. Your other midfielders break forward with the winger. Your winger lays it off to your midfielder, who slides a pass that the forward runs onto, laying it to the far post for the far wide winger to knock it in. The counter isn't just fast and direct - its taking advantage of a particular situation with the opposition.

An example of a fast & direct attack that isn't a counter - you and the opposition are both playing conservatively, both trying to keep 10 men behind the ball. Your opponent has the ball but is basically passing it among the defenders, out to the wide players, and then back to the defenders. They aren't advancing it much past the halfway line. They clip in a hopeful speculative pass to their lone forward, who can't win it because you have several defenders around him. You win the ball back, push it out wide, and even if you try to launch an attack, the opposition hasn't committed men forward so there is no real defensive vulnerability. Since they are all positioned properly, you don't have a lot space and you winger ends up blasting a long hopeful pass into your lone forward. Even if he wins it, he has no support. That might be fast and direct, but its not actually a counter as there is no defensive situation to exploit.

As WJ says, the counter mentality doesn't necessarily you play the counter style. It all comes down the system as a whole, including roles and duties. The mentalities, again, are more about risk. So the lower the mentality, the less risk. But you can still play very attacking. I've used a defensive mentality for a style that was very attacking and dominating - it just didn't take a huge amount of risk with the ball.